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#1 JJK

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 04:17 PM

I am looking into the possibility of setting up a video link using a small LCD display and camera, preferably connected via wireless, to allow me to monitor progress of bridal entry, offertory etc, as well as for following a conductor. I'm quite keen not to have it built into the organ, but easily removable. I can see that this could be done quite easily with a webcam and monitor, but I am worried about delay. All the systems I've seen have a small but significant delay in the video transmission,which would rule it out for following a conductor. Does anyone have any experience of this? Any tips gratefully received.

JJK

#2 wolsey

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 05:13 PM

This is what we bought just over a year ago from a company called Y3K. The company recommendation came from Nigel Allcoat, and the system serves our needs. The three (fixed) cameras provide pictures of the West Door, conductor, and High Altar. The cameras' infra-red capability is useful on occasions when there is little or no light, e.g. a candle-lit service.

#3 JJK

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 11:03 PM

This is what we bought just over a year ago from a company called Y3K. The company recommendation came from Nigel Allcoat, and the system serves our needs. The three (fixed) cameras provide pictures of the West Door, conductor, and High Altar. The cameras' infra-red capability is useful on occasions when there is little or no light, e.g. a candle-lit service.

Thank you for this - it looks good. So the delay is OK on this system is it? I wouldn't want to be any further behind the beat than I'm told I already am ... :P

#4 wolsey

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 06:32 PM

So the delay is OK on this system is it? I wouldn't want to be any further behind the beat than I'm told I already am ...

It would be difficult to blame any perceived shortcomings in ensemble on the CCTV. :P

#5 innate

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Posted 23 September 2009 - 06:29 AM

It would be difficult to blame any perceived shortcomings in ensemble on the CCTV. :P

In the West End, many pit musicians watch the conductor via CCTV. Suspicions are sometimes raised that there is a delay that causes problems with the ensemble. If there is any conversion from analogue to digital then it is likely that there will be a perceivable delay, as there is on digital TV and radio signals.

#6 bombarde32

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Posted 23 September 2009 - 01:11 PM

I have used a small B/W door entry camera (B&Q - about 20 quid) mounted on a microphone stand with an existing old computer monitor for this very job. Works a treat!

#7 Nigel ALLCOAT

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Posted 25 September 2009 - 10:45 PM

Thank you for this - it looks good. So the delay is OK on this system is it? I wouldn't want to be any further behind the beat than I'm told I already am ... :rolleyes:


I use this system (and bought the cable version for St John's Oxford), and it is immediate. I have checked in my occasional mirror when having to play an improvised film score and what I see is exactly what is being shown on the screen. However, sometimes a rather stuffed Positive might make a little difference to the signal - but it is only a difference in the quality of picture. This does not bother me in the slightest.
Best wishes,
N

#8 Paul Morley

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Posted 26 September 2009 - 09:41 AM

In the West End, many pit musicians watch the conductor via CCTV. Suspicions are sometimes raised that there is a delay that causes problems with the ensemble.

TANGENT ALERT
When the theatre of the Liverpool Instutue for Performing Arts was created (within the superstructure of a school hall, of course), there was no room for a pit. Orchestra and conductor play in a room a couple of floors away. All communication between stage, audience and instrumetalists is achieved though audio visual links

#9 innate

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Posted 26 September 2009 - 10:59 AM

TANGENT ALERT
When the theatre of the Liverpool Instutue for Performing Arts was created (within the superstructure of a school hall, of course), there was no room for a pit. Orchestra and conductor play in a room a couple of floors away. All communication between stage, audience and instrumetalists is achieved though audio visual links

This was how all the musical productions worked for the RSC when they were resident in the Barbican Centre, including the original Les Miserables and The Wizard of Oz. It normally requires all the musicians to wear headphones.

#10 bombarde32

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Posted 28 September 2009 - 05:40 PM

I remember MD-ing a production of Little Shop of Horrors in a small theatre with abosolutely no room for the band. We eventually found a place for the keyboards, timps and trumpets in the bar which was good, come curtain down! It worked well though, and those musicians didn't have to dress up!

#11 Paul Morley

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Posted 28 September 2009 - 06:12 PM

My most disconcerting experience as a pit musician took place whilst playing for a week at the Lyceum Theatre in Crewe (pre-restoration and the tidal wave of H&S legislation that has since engulfed us all). The bass player and I spent most of our non-playing time trying to prevent the water that was running down the pit walls from coming into contact with the mains socket into which his amplifier was plugged.

#12 JJK

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Posted 30 September 2009 - 09:05 AM

I use this system (and bought the cable version for St John's Oxford), and it is immediate. I have checked in my occasional mirror when having to play an improvised film score and what I see is exactly what is being shown on the screen. However, sometimes a rather stuffed Positive might make a little difference to the signal - but it is only a difference in the quality of picture. This does not bother me in the slightest.
Best wishes,
N

Thank you all for your helpful replies. I will have to find out what - if any - the budget is. It's good to know there are some options with little delay.
JJK

#13 combineharvestersam

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 11:46 AM

Thank you all for your helpful replies. I will have to find out what - if any - the budget is. It's good to know there are some options with little delay.
JJK


Is there a 'budget' system available or anything less expensive?

We need one at a church where I'm DOM, as the console is in a loft and viewing the conductor is not easy. We did have an old black and white CCTV system but the previous organist (an odd chap apparently) ripped all the wires out and smashed the cameras.

Sam Austin

#14 Stephen Barber

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 08:25 PM

Is there a 'budget' system available or anything less expensive?

We need one at a church where I'm DOM, as the console is in a loft and viewing the conductor is not easy. We did have an old black and white CCTV system but the previous organist (an odd chap apparently) ripped all the wires out and smashed the cameras.

Sam Austin


I wouldn't have thought you could get much cheaper than Bombarde32's suggestion at Post 6. Don't forget ebay. Have you got an electrician in the congregation?

#15 bombarde32

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 06:48 PM

I found the system at Portmouth cathedral (Anglican) very good when I played for the services the other Sunday. Having not played the organ before the day, I found the system most congenial ( and the instrument, too, for that matter) with a good range of pan/tilt and zoom. It didn't matter exactly where the choirmaster had positioned his stand, as I could 'navigate' easily to it. The monitor (which 'flips' down from above your head) is clear and neither too small or large. Easily the most sucessful permanent installation I have used.

#16 Sotto Voce

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Posted 27 November 2009 - 10:08 AM

Is there a 'budget' system available or anything less expensive?

We need one at a church where I'm DOM, as the console is in a loft and viewing the conductor is not easy. We did have an old black and white CCTV system but the previous organist (an odd chap apparently) ripped all the wires out and smashed the cameras.

Sam Austin

I have one of these (wired) systems which I bought from Maplins for around 130 and which I use for concerts at church. It does a good job for around 130

#17 Charles Wooler

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Posted 27 November 2009 - 02:58 PM

I have one of these (wired) systems which I bought from Maplins for around 130 and which I use for concerts at church. It does a good job for around 130


This is exactly the system we use at St John's too- it's been excellent and far better than the previous set up. There is also the option of adding camera into the system fairly inexpensively. I seem to recall we spent 160 on two cameras, the screen and 40 meters of extra cable. There is one caveat that I discovered last week: the batteries to the remote died last weekend and so I was forced to operate the different cameras by going behind the console and pressing the buttons in the dark. After the I'd finished conducting anthem the new organ scholar came round white as a sheet and explained I'd pressed the wrong button and the screen scanned between the two cameras every 5 seconds. As it was the first time he'd played for part of a service he thought it was a practical joke on the new boy! I also like the setting where you can make the conductor hang off the ceiling or appear back to front.

#18 dave the pipe

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Posted 08 April 2015 - 08:18 PM

I wonder if anyone can help? I need cctv for the organ in my church but since the above postings all the models now available seem to have a delay - no use for following a conductor! I have drawn a blank at Maplins who say they don't have anything without a little delay. Also, many of the models have security facilities which we do not need.



#19 John Robinson

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Posted 08 April 2015 - 09:09 PM

Not trying to be funny, but that's where mirrors are superior to CCTV: they work at the speed of light!

 

Seriously, though, I'm surprised that there aren't CCTV systems that are capable of working without any appreciable delay.  They seem to manage at King's College, and no doubt at many other places too.  Perhaps Maplins are not the best choice and I shouldn't be surprised if someone with the right experience on here will come up with a better source.



#20 innate

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Posted 08 April 2015 - 09:15 PM

The issue of delay on modern CCTV systems is because of digital technology, I think. It’s a problem for live events where the performers are shown in close-up on big screens too. The delay is getting shorter and, surprise, it’s shortest on the most expensive systems. Apparently there are timing issues between audio and picture on many modern widescreen TV sets too.






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