Phoneuma Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 I wonder if any of you learned folks can point me in the direction of the publisher for this piece.? I've spent an hour or so faffing about on the tinterweb but to no avail (plenty of Toccata II but not I). Just in case (and there does seem to be a fair amount of confusion about these two Toccatas) here's the youtube link for the correct one (which even has one of those scrolling scores, I suppose I could screenshot that and then laboriously transfer it but I'd rather have the real deal if possible). The score on Youtube also has no. 24 before the Toccata title - I wonder what the other 23 pieces are like then?! It seems to have been trawled over before on another forum but it that just fizzles out into uncertainty. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYArxHyPY28 Regards and hoping for a lead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinwgc Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 This information is from A Directory of Composers for Organ by John Henderson. Toccata No.1 was published by Van Rossum of Utrecht, this firm is no longer active, it merged with Herman Zengerink, Urlusstraat 24,3533 SN Utrecht, The Netherlands Tel: +31 (0) 302 930 685 Fax: +31 (0) 302 991 770 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolsey Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 One supplier here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoneuma Posted March 16, 2015 Author Share Posted March 16, 2015 Thanks for the pointers. It's as far as I got myself and I'm not sure if Wolsey's suggestion is still the correct one (this cropped up elsewhere on another musical forum and the unfortunate buyer ended up with Toccata II which is widely available and the price on that german website seems to match my suspicion). The info from RAC is also useful but leads nowhere in particular. I've plenty of time to faff about a bit more now and may well end up doing a re-score from youtube, which wouldn't take that long anyway. Grateful thanks for your suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoneuma Posted March 16, 2015 Author Share Posted March 16, 2015 A quick update - Wolsey's recommendation is correct but their website then comes up with this rather final point. Doesn't look encouraging...... Toccata: per organo Publisher: Herman Muziekuitgeverij Zengerink Delivery time: Publisher extinguished (sic) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S_L Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I think, if I had drawn blanks everywhere and only wanted a copy of this piece for my own use and didn't intend to use it in recital, I would be tempted to copy it onto Sibelius from the link above! It wouldn't take long, a couple of hours, quite enjoyable, work I would say! And if I did intend to use it in Recital I would put a footnote in the programme notes as to where I had obtained the manuscript of the music. I'm not sure about the legalities of this and, I'm certain, others will shoot me down for it but, if after extensive search, a manuscript is not available, it seems to me, at any rate, that the only way this music will appear in the public domain is the course of action described above. Otherwise it disappears into the 'sands of time'!! (SL ducks and akes cover - as the shots start to fire!!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
innate Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Slightly unusual use of "public domain", SL :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Pykett Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Far be it from me to tell people what to do regarding performing rights, but this piece is presumably still in copyright in the UK because the composer has not been deceased for 70 years. PRS for Music is not known for its light touch when pursuing infringers either ... To the best of my knowledge (because they told me so themselves) I believe one could get away with performing it as part of what PRS calls 'divine service', where the rules apparently do not apply. However if it were to be performed in the same building with the same audience 5 minutes after the service ceased, then beware. (They also made this clear in the same email). CEP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
innate Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Do PRS get involved with the legality or otherwise of the sheetmusic being used? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoneuma Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 It would be very much a 'last resort' to score this out (and an hour or so would be about right SL, I'm pretty nifty with the thing now). I have a few tenuous leads left here and there (e.g. the original youtube 'poster' who would seem to have a proper score, at least it looks like it and not some Sibelius clone). Colin's reply does throw up something of which I was not aware and is a new one. I've also left it with my daughter to ponder - she is a trainee copyright / trademark attorney in Leeds, a useful source of some of the pitfalls that are the minefield of this business. I have already talked with her about it and she has gone away to do some digging. I do think the law is pretty cut and dried (70 year rule etc). but what does one do in these circumstances when all else has been exhausted. This same thing cropped up with that British Legion march which I got around by buying someone else's arrangement, even though I wasn't entirely convinced that he had sought permission himself to arrange it (the arranger even went so far as to include some note about seeking permission from him for performance rights which is a little curious in the circumstances). This Legion march is also untraceable as a publication. 'Do PRS get involved with'.... - that one is also a pertinent point to ponder. Apart from the usual 'returns' that are sent from my church following organ recitals that's as far as I have ever gone with this. The church is particularly scrupulous about these returns by the way, all credit to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S_L Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Slightly unusual use of "public domain", SL :-) Yes, true - and apologies for that!! And, as I said, I have no knowledge of UK law (I don't live there!) - and I would check, very carefully, before I did perform from a manuscript I described - but there are, clearly, plenty of people on here who can, and will, give you better advice than I! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S_L Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Why not contact Ben Mooiman - who is playing on that recording. He teaches at the Conservatoire in The Hague and is Organist of the Nieuwe Badkapel. The church address is: Nieuwe Parklaan 902587BV Den Haag The Conservatoire address is: Koninklijk Conservatorium Juliana van Stolberglaan 1 2595 CA Den Haag Hope that helps more than my previous suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoneuma Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 That is helpful as I don't have a youtube account and probably couldn't trace the originator. I'll follow that up - grateful thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoneuma Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 Problem solved via another forum member for the time being. However, I have sent a request to Ben Mooiman and I shall report back when I have some further news. It does seem to have thrown up a problem that needs to be looked at - this is also not the only piece which exists in this sort of limbo. Many hands do make light work and I'm grateful there are so many knowledgeable and helpful folks on this forum, thanks one and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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