Royal Albert Hall

[Guest Roffensis]

To be honest, I think a lot of organists have a thoroughly debased sense of humour. Language heard in the loft is often choice, and schoolboy humour is never far away. I can't see any harm in making any comment, as long as they do not libel or hurt individuals. Such things as the RAH organ and so on, belong to us all, and we have all been allowed, by and large, freedom of speech. Edna actually is extremely clever, and more than a little cynical of the organ world, and all that goes on within it. I think to bar her, is to bar people who actually say much the same, and plenty worse beside, and the fact is that Edna does reflect something of the mentality of many organists. I know scores, of course I would do, and also organ builders. One can get a point accross without resorting to vulgarity, but that same vulgarity does exist. So before we all condemn, we all need to recall our own lives as organists, and put our halos away. Even so, public boards are just that, and a little respect goes a long way in how we say things, and personally I have always erred on caution and refrained from "clashes". I see the "talk" approach to be more constructive. As an example, I have had minor clashes with clergy who have tried to "push" me. Never have I retaliated, no good comes from it. If I have been discouteous of the RAH organ, it is only because I do not find it a beautiful or inspiring sound. This does not reflect any builders. It does reflect the "glorious 1920s" when so many organs were wrecked into fat and brassy old war horses, so that now we have white elephants that do not sit in any particular place, but rather occupying several camps and do the lot of them short measure. We pay the price!

[Brian Childs]

For the avoidance of any doubt I personally have no desire to be censor of what people say or the form they choose to express their thoughts. The world has moved on since R v Penguin Books (the trial of Penguin for publishing an obscene libel in the form of Lady Chatterly's Lover ) and I certainly do not say "Oh Dear me, how very painful" when I hit my thumb with a hammer. Style and taste are personal matters and the moderators of this Board are the arbiters of the extent of acceptability here, and one censor is all that is necessary.

 

Or perhaps two , if we include self censorship as well. Certainly anonymity acts as a considerable disincentive to self censorship since the chickens have a much harder job in finding their way back to the roost ! Conversely, the knowledge that what one says will be attributed to one is an incentive to restraint and to an attitude which might be encapsulated as "Please engage the brain, before putting the fingers into gear..."

 

As a lover of Sherlock Holmes and the English mystery novel in general I would love to know how MM deduced that Edna was not Stephen Cleobury after only one half pint of beer. Inspector Morse usually needed (or perhaps just wanted) more. Perhaps as Christmas is approaching in the spirit of Dickens's Christmas Books he could write a short tale explaining how the mystery was solved and publish it here. Or perhaps this is another aspect of English culture for which he has no particular fondness.

 

As to the RAH organ, unlike many here I have never heard it in the flesh, only on records, which are not always truthful as has been pointed out here by more than one person. However, I always understood that GTB quite liked it. One obvious explanation for the problems identified by several is that an instrument located in a busy venue will enable only limited opportunities for practice and exploration. If you combine that with the fact that most of those who play it in public will be visitors with no regular relationship with the instrument , it is not so surprising if all the musical subtleties and fine nuances of registration and organ management which can be displayed by a titulaire in regular, sometimes daily, contact with an instrument are not so much in evidence when the performer has had only a few hours to familiarise themselves with the beast. And the bigger the instrument the more difficult the task is. In the UK they do not come any bigger !

 

Brian Childs

[Pierre Lauwers]

I know of this debased humor, I enjoyed it myself when I spent

time on galleries.

I found many humoristic drawings, for example, within big piles of 100 years-plus

music sheets, so that's nothing new.

 

A somewhat remote and above all, closed with a door, upstairs gallery, a big reverted console or a chair organ, all this provide the organist and his friends a comfort in isolation to joke with impunity.

 

But here we aren't hidden behind that console. We are read worldwide, we use a language that's understood worldwide. So it's quite the contrary; it's the same misunderstanding as something I lived 25 years ago -I just cited it on Plenum-:

 

One day an organist was joking about the priest's "stupidity and drunkness" with his friends during the mass.

Unfortunately the microphone he used to lead the congregation's singing he had forgotten to set off so that his comments were shared quite loudly with everybody in the nave, altar included.

A congregation and a priest were then concerned; here, it's absolutely everyone who wishes to have a glance at what we tell, worldwide...

 

Best wishes,

Pierre

[Guest Roffensis]

Some of my most difficult times have been playing organ recitals where you have little "practice time"..... . That translates as "piston time" actually, or does in my case, where I would spend all the available time setting pistons for example St Georges Hall, Liverpool. It left no time to get used to the action, pedalboard, or even the acoustic, which there exceeds eight seconds. Not easy, and there of course the sound just floats way over your head, bounces off the back wall as a true bounce, with everything seeming very much quieter at the console than it is in the hall. Great fun , but not easy. Greatest lessons have been hearing others play it , and that even goes for my own parish organ, which also sounds radically different downstairs, much thicker and louder. So all the arguments about knowing a job are true. It takes time, and several goes at it. You just have to take a long time to get know any particular instrument, and know what works, and what doesn't.

[Graham Powell]

On the whole I thought that the registers, used during the recital, not well thought out. They certainly didn’t compare with the very careful registrations used in the opening recitals. Just think back to the demonstration given by Martin Baker. I also got fed up with hearing so much of the chorus reeds. Was it the 4ft chorus reeds that screamed so much? I am very thankful that the super octave coupler has been removed from the tubas. Though I feel these stops might benefit from a sub octave coupler. Also, were we hearing the chorus reeds without enough flues to back them?

Alan Taylor

(Who doesn’t want to sink or burn David C)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Alan's post referred to Martin Baker's demonstration of the RAH organ. Although I wasn't present, I was told (by someone heavily involved in the restoration) that his improvisation - some 20 minutes long - was played after very limited time at the console beforehand. No more than 10 minutes, in fact!

 

Graham

[AJJ]

Alan's post referred to Martin Baker's demonstration of the RAH organ. Although I wasn't present, I was told (by someone heavily involved in the restoration) that his improvisation - some 20 minutes long - was played after very limited time at the console beforehand. No more than 10 minutes, in fact!

 

Graham

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I was there and thought he and Clive Driskill-Smith played really quite well. Mind you it it's interesting to compare the recorded sound of the organ now and on the old Kynaston recordings - everything feels a lot more 'tightened up' and efficient in its operation.

 

AJJ

[Brian Childs]

Alan's post referred to Martin Baker's demonstration of the RAH organ. Although I wasn't present, I was told (by someone heavily involved in the restoration) that his improvisation - some 20 minutes long - was played after very limited time at the console beforehand. No more than 10 minutes, in fact!

 

Graham

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I am not sure if an improvisation is the fairest test since by definition the appropriate registration for the music has to be what the player selects ! They are, after all, the composer. Apart from that it is surely not seriously contended that anyone apart from superman, even somebody as talented as Mr Baker, can have fully explored all the resources of the refurbished RAH organ in ten minutes ? Therefore, he cannot have been working on the basis of knowledge of what would actually happen, but on the a priori principle of what should happen if he registered in a certain way, using knowledge of what the instrument was like before and information about what had been done to it. It clearly worked for him but then he does have the advantage of considerable familiarity with another large instrument from the Harrison stable which had been recently rebuilt. That must have provided useful insights. The fact that he was able to produce the impact that he did on those who heard him after so short a period of familiarisation is eloquent testimony to his talents but certainly falls short of establishing the proposition that this is the norm to which others who aspire to play the instrument can be expected to conform.

 

Brian Childs

[Graham Powell]

Alan's post referred to Martin Baker's demonstration of the RAH organ. Although I wasn't present, I was told (by someone heavily involved in the restoration) that his improvisation - some 20 minutes long - was played after very limited time at the console beforehand. No more than 10 minutes, in fact!

 

Graham

I am not sure if an improvisation is the fairest test since by definition the appropriate registration for the music has to be what the player selects ! They are, after all, the composer. Apart from that it is surely not seriously contended that anyone apart from superman, even somebody as talented as Mr Baker, can have fully explored all the resources of the refurbished RAH organ in ten minutes ? Therefore, he cannot have been working on the basis of knowledge of what would actually happen, but on the a priori principle of what should happen if he  registered in a certain  way, using knowledge of what the instrument was like before and information about what had been done to it. It clearly worked for him but then he does have the advantage of considerable familiarity with another large instrument from the Harrison stable which had been recently rebuilt. That must have provided useful insights. The fact that he was able to produce the impact that he did on those who heard him after so short a period of familiarisation is eloquent testimony to his talents but  certainly falls short of establishing the proposition that this is the norm to which others who aspire to play the instrument can be expected to conform.

 

Brian Childs

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Brian,

 

I agree - my message wasn't intended to establish any sort of proposition that Mr Baker's wizardry is the norm. I was referring to his success when faced with the problem of getting any time at the console there, due to the enormous pressures of timetabling concerts, rehearsals, sporting events, degree presentations, and all the other multitude of events which the RAH hosts. DGW's CD of the organ there was recorded between 1am - 6am on three consecutive nights in 2004 (see CD inset) - surely not through choice!

 

Graham

[Brian Childs]

Brian,

 

I agree - my message wasn't intended to establish any sort of proposition that Mr Baker's wizardry is the norm. I was referring to his success when faced with the problem of getting any time at the console there, due to the enormous pressures of timetabling concerts, rehearsals, sporting events, degree presentations, and all the other multitude of events which the RAH hosts. DGW's CD of the organ there was recorded between 1am - 6am on three consecutive nights in 2004 (see CD inset) - surely not through choice!

 

Graham

 

That seemed to be the time made available to Paul Hale too when he did his write up in Organist's Review . Perhaps that could explain some of the flaws that have been identified in DGW's recording. Almost no one is at their best at three in the morning, as I have discovered when I have been obliged to work through the night. It would seem highly skilled organists who suffer from insomnia should head the list of those invited to record it, for I do hope there will be more recordings. Anyone up for another version of the Ad Nos to add to those by Gillian Weir, Jennifer Bate and Nicholas Kynaston ? Or perhaps a programme of transcriptions which may be what it will do best ? Or a Bach recital, though who today is sufficiently secure to perform Bach in a style appropriate to the instrument rather than attempting to emulate the sound of a Silberman. From what has gone before Mr Baker would seem an obvious choice provided he has no objection to doing the night shift.

 

Brian Childs

[Jeremy Jones]

I think one can get too worked up about the use of the RAH organ as a solo instrument, when this is only a very small part of what it is there for. Its primary roles is surely to accompany massed and not so massed choirs, sometimes in tandem with an orchestra or brass band. And in this function, if nothing else, it surely excels, as I can speak from experience.

 

At one time I was a member of the London Symphony Chorus, and the bread and butter of our work was in the Barbican Hall, somehow squashed in usually behind the LSO. If an organ was called for in the work we were performing, a digital organ would be wheeled on with a few speakers scattered about. This was all but useless for providing the chorus with any support.

 

Occasional forays to venues such as the Festival Hall or RAH were always welcome, not least because they both possess such good concert organs, which integrate well with the orchestra and, being situated immediately behind the chorus, provide the singers with some oftenj badly needed support which the orchestra in front cannot. I still remember with awe a concert at the RAH which we opened with Parry's Blest Pair of Sirens. The work ends with a gradual crescendo leading to a blazing climax, and having the floor shaking RAH organ powering away behind us gave such a feeling of confidence that you just don't get at somewhere like the Barbican. This is not something to be sniffed at, as the LSO chorus like most that appear at the RAH, are amateur choirs where confidence is everything.

 

By all means discuss to your hearts content the merits or otherwise of the RAH organ and DGWs recent recital, and whether this or that tuba and octave coupler was used. Just don't forget the reality of what this instruments daily bread and butter is.

 

Jeremy Jones

London

[Goldsmith]

Accurate but not necessarily fair.  Go to Google right now and search for barker lever - results 4 and 5 on the list are from this board.  Alexandra palace organ - same thing again.  Osmond Taunton - number 2. 

 

Material put into the public domain will inevitably be associated with the person putting it there, irrespective of any caveats you include about personal opinions; for example, on my (I thought) fairly innocuous post mentioning a Gordon Stewart recital at Romsey, I used the words "pub" and "drink" which my employers at the abbey frowned upon, apparently having stumbled across it in an internet search for Gordon's biog.  Even now, six weeks after the event, "gordon stewart organ" on Google brings that message up in the first 8.  Had it been done under an assumed name there couldn't have been any association and therefore no issue; as it was, it could have been reasonably assumed by anyone browsing this public site that this was how Romsey Abbey saw fit to advertise its events.  Knuckles rapped, circumspection plugged in.

 

It's easy to say that views on here are private; but in the public domain they're just not, and accordingly it's in the interests of free speech that those who use assumed names and make worthy contributions to the conversation must be able to continue to do so.    Amongst our best contributions on the board come from pcnd and various other assumed names.  Forcing people to identify themselves will either drive valuable contributors away or bring an enforced gentility to the conversation - in both cases, working very firmly against free speech.  We are talking here about a low-speed organ anoraks' chatroom with an audit trail - hardly a court of law...

 

As we have seen, if anything is said that shouldn't be, or that 99.5% of us find distasteful and highly irritating, we have moderators who act quickly to restore the balance - and therefore no problem.

 

And Nimrod is an incredibly tricky piece to get through - musically.  DGW and the sounds she can create are the reason I and many others kept on playing - I was getting bored of all the C.H.Trevor and pedestrian pedal exercises by about age 15 until I came across her Scherzo CD and saw for the first time the light at the end of the tunnel. Musically, she puts fire into bellies; she is an amazing writer & communicator, whoever the audience, as demonstrated by the article reprints on her website I am always banging on about; and an unrivalled ambassador for the organ in every global sense of the word, worldwide and across ages/skills levels.  She showed many kindnesses to me when I was younger, and to many others of my generation going to Oundle courses in the early 90's - hardly a job she would take for the money.  She has stewarded the organ and its music in and out of several different fashions with consistency and integrity.  So, there's my two cents - leave off this amazing, skilled, inspirational, hugely generous and monumentally talented person who is giving her best - we all have a hell of a lot more to learn from her than the difference between a couple of wrong notes.  Get a Clavinova with midi input if you want the notes right.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Goldsmith]

Accurate but not necessarily fair.  Go to Google right now and search for barker lever - results 4 and 5 on the list are from this board.  Alexandra palace organ - same thing again.  Osmond Taunton - number 2. 

 

Material put into the public domain will inevitably be associated with the person putting it there, irrespective of any caveats you include about personal opinions; for example, on my (I thought) fairly innocuous post mentioning a Gordon Stewart recital at Romsey, I used the words "pub" and "drink" which my employers at the abbey frowned upon, apparently having stumbled across it in an internet search for Gordon's biog.  Even now, six weeks after the event, "gordon stewart organ" on Google brings that message up in the first 8.  Had it been done under an assumed name there couldn't have been any association and therefore no issue; as it was, it could have been reasonably assumed by anyone browsing this public site that this was how Romsey Abbey saw fit to advertise its events.  Knuckles rapped, circumspection plugged in.

 

It's easy to say that views on here are private; but in the public domain they're just not, and accordingly it's in the interests of free speech that those who use assumed names and make worthy contributions to the conversation must be able to continue to do so.    Amongst our best contributions on the board come from pcnd and various other assumed names.  Forcing people to identify themselves will either drive valuable contributors away or bring an enforced gentility to the conversation - in both cases, working very firmly against free speech.  We are talking here about a low-speed organ anoraks' chatroom with an audit trail - hardly a court of law...

 

As we have seen, if anything is said that shouldn't be, or that 99.5% of us find distasteful and highly irritating, we have moderators who act quickly to restore the balance - and therefore no problem.

 

And Nimrod is an incredibly tricky piece to get through - musically.  DGW and the sounds she can create are the reason I and many others kept on playing - I was getting bored of all the C.H.Trevor and pedestrian pedal exercises by about age 15 until I came across her Scherzo CD and saw for the first time the light at the end of the tunnel. Musically, she puts fire into bellies; she is an amazing writer & communicator, whoever the audience, as demonstrated by the article reprints on her website I am always banging on about; and an unrivalled ambassador for the organ in every global sense of the word, worldwide and across ages/skills levels.  She showed many kindnesses to me when I was younger, and to many others of my generation going to Oundle courses in the early 90's - hardly a job she would take for the money.  She has stewarded the organ and its music in and out of several different fashions with consistency and integrity.  So, there's my two cents - leave off this amazing, skilled, inspirational, hugely generous and monumentally talented person who is giving her best - we all have a hell of a lot more to learn from her than the difference between a couple of wrong notes.  Get a Clavinova with midi input if you want the notes right.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Well said.

 

Gillian Weir is a great communicator, and a great musician. More than most players, she transmits the sense of a work being re-created. I wonder if there's just a little snobbery in some of the attitudes expressed? Perhaps some of us rather enjoy the status of esoteric minority, and GW's ability to reach broad audiences is rather a threat? The RAH audience was certainly much more diverse than those usually encountered on the London scene.

 

It's interesting that clinical accuracy seems to have become the primary criterion by which an organist should be judged; not so, I think for other musicians...

 

I took two non-organ relations to the RAH. They were blown away by the whole experience. Unlike many instruments, the Voice of Jupiter has subtlety and splendour in spades, and non-organists love it (unlike many more fashionable installations).

 

It's depressing that within the organ world, so many are so very doctrinaire and seem unable to tolerate any diversity at all...

[Peter Allison]

Well said.

 

Gillian Weir is a great communicator, and a great musician. More than most players, she transmits the sense of a work being re-created. I wonder if there's just a little snobbery in some of the attitudes expressed? Perhaps some of us rather enjoy the status of esoteric minority, and GW's ability to reach broad audiences is rather a threat? The RAH audience was certainly much more diverse than those usually encountered on the London scene.

 

It's interesting that clinical accuracy seems to have become the primary criterion by which an organist should be judged; not so, I think for other musicians...

 

I took two non-organ relations to the RAH. They were blown away by the whole experience. Unlike many instruments, the Voice of Jupiter has subtlety and splendour in spades, and non-organists love it (unlike many more fashionable installations).

 

It's depressing that within the organ world, so many are so very doctrinaire and seem unable to tolerate any diversity at all...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here Here, From a non player who listens to friends play and goes to recitals both at parish church level and cathedral/concert halls, I find that the odd mistake or what I think might be the wrong registration, brings home how I and others listen to the "clinical" world of recordings, with modern digital editing and hours of recording the same piece. How must it have been in the "good old days" when say Thalben Ball had to record a bit o' Bach in one take?

Peter

[MusingMuso]

Here Here, From a non player who listens to friends play and goes to recitals both at parish church level and cathedral/concert halls, I find that the odd mistake or what I think might be the wrong registration, brings home how I and others listen to the "clinical" world of recordings, with modern digital editing and hours of recording the same piece. How must it have been in the "good old days" when say Thalben Ball had to record a bit o' Bach in one take?

 

==================

 

Indeeed!

 

I so admire the old Lemare Welte-player rolls....accurate to a fault.

 

Then, what about Quentin Maclean "double-tracking" with wax and acetate, as he added the solo piano part to the organ arrangement he had recorded earlier of the orchestral score of the Grieg Piano Concerto.

 

Nerves of steel!

 

MM

[Brian Childs]

Here Here, From a non player who listens to friends play and goes to recitals both at parish church level and cathedral/concert halls, I find that the odd mistake or what I think might be the wrong registration, brings home how I and others listen to the "clinical" world of recordings, with modern digital editing and hours of recording the same piece. How must it have been in the "good old days" when say Thalben Ball had to record a bit o' Bach in one take?

 

==================

 

Indeeed!

 

I so admire the old Lemare Welte-player rolls....accurate to a fault.

 

Then, what about Quentin Maclean "double-tracking" with wax and acetate, as he added the solo piano part to the organ arrangement he had recorded earlier of the orchestral score of the Grieg Piano Concerto.

 

Nerves of steel!

 

MM

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Dear MM,

 

I have come across McClean playing Rhapsody in Blue on the Organ but never heard before of the Grieg. Just out of interest does it actually exist? (Or is this another MM wind up ?) My technical knowledge of recording really extends no further than a vague knowledge that recording technology progressed considerably in advance of the technology for reproducing the sound, so that stereo was being experimented with well in advance of the second world war yet had to wait till the middle 50's to become a reality as far the public was concerned.

Thus I lack the expertise to enable me to know for sure whether what you assert occured was technically possible. OF course Mac survived until 1962 but I have never come across anything recorded after he moved to Canada, which is not to say it does not exist. If he were still to be active even during the 1950's then presumably it would have been possible for him to double track in that way.

 

Also I think I understand your point about the ability to "edit" or perhaps "compile" Welte Rolls, but I might have got this wrong too. I am correct in taking you to mean that they were not necessarily a reflection of a genuine live performance, am I not ?

 

Brian Childs

[Tony Newnham]

Dear MM,

 

I have come across McClean playing Rhapsody in Blue on the Organ but never heard before of the Grieg. Just out of interest does it actually exist? (Or is this another MM wind up ?) My technical knowledge of recording really extends no further than a vague knowledge that recording technology progressed considerably in advance of the technology for reproducing the sound, so that stereo was being experimented with well in advance of the second world war yet had to wait till the middle 50's to become a reality as far the public was concerned.

Thus I lack the expertise to enable me to know for sure whether what you assert occured was technically possible. OF course Mac survived until 1962 but I have never come across anything recorded after he moved to Canada, which is not to say it does not exist. If he were still to be active even during the 1950's then presumably it would have been possible for him to double track in that way.

 

Also I think I understand your point about the ability to "edit" or perhaps "compile" Welte Rolls, but I might have got this wrong too. I am correct in taking you to mean that they were not necessarily a reflection of a genuine live performance, am I not ?

 

Brian Childs

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hi

 

I've heard the qQuentin MacClean recording on "The Organist Entertains" so it does exist. I can't remember the date, but magnetic tape was available in the late 1940's. Welte rolls, according to what I've read in various places, were edited and tidied up - I don't know to what degree, but editting wouold just mean covering holes in paper, and punching new ones in the right place.

 

Every Blessing

 

Tony

[MusingMuso]

Dear MM,

 

I have come across McClean playing Rhapsody in Blue on the Organ but never heard before of the Grieg. Just out of interest does it actually exist? (Or is this another MM wind up ?) My technical knowledge of recording really extends no further than a vague knowledge that recording technology progressed considerably in advance of the technology for reproducing the sound, so that stereo was being experimented with well in advance of the second world war yet had to wait till the middle 50's to become a reality as far the public was concerned.

Thus I lack the expertise to enable me to know for sure whether what you assert occured was technically possible. OF course Mac survived until 1962 but I have never come across anything recorded after he moved to Canada, which is not to say it does not exist. If he were still to be active even during the 1950's then presumably it would have been possible for him to double track in that way.

 

Also I think I understand your point about the ability to "edit" or perhaps "compile" Welte Rolls, but I might have got this wrong too. I am correct in taking you to mean that they were not necessarily a reflection of a genuine live performance, am I not ?

 

=================

 

No wind up Brian!

 

The Qunetin Maclean recording of the Grieg does indeed exist....I have it.

 

It was recorded, so far as I recall, on the Compton at the Shepherd's Bush Theatre. I cannot verify the exact details, but I can tell you what was told to me about the recording, which may be accurate or not, as the case may be. If I can find the sleeve notes, I may be able to discover more. However, the recordings, I recall, as being done in the 30's.

 

Apparently, Maclean pre-recorded the orchestral abridged "backing" so that it would fit on a 78rpm master....presumably a wax master then converted into acetate. This would then be played back, and Maclean would add the Piano Solo part as appropriate. This has been suggested to me as the first example of a commercially available double-track recording, but I cannot verify this.

 

Thinking about this, the only clues he would have would be a clock in the silent sections and marks on the piano score....a daunting proposition. Obviously, with headphones, he would hear the accompanied piano parts, which would be easier.

 

The pre-recorded track of the orchestral part would then be mixed with the live recording of the piano addition, resulting in a new mixed master, from which subesquent pressings could be made.

 

Astonsihingly, this "double track" 78rpm disc, which I have on a cleaner-up CD version using the Cedar process, is about 99% accurate, with just the odd rush in the piano part as the orchestra looms. It really is quite an astonishing achievement by any standards, but then, he was taught by Straube and Reger!!

 

My personal Maclean favourite has to be his almost contrapuntal version of "The old man of the mountain," where he works in part of Peer Gynt. (Sp?)

 

Maybe I need to do a bit of research concerning Welte rolls, and I may be jumping to conclusions. Does anyone know how faithful the Lemare rolls are to the original performance?

 

If they are faithful, they are quite mind-blowingly brilliant!

 

MM

[Brian Childs]

Dear MM,

 

 

 

No wind up Brian!

 

The Qunetin Maclean recording of the Grieg does indeed exist....I have it.

 

Apparently, Maclean pre-recorded the orchestral abridged "backing" so that it would fit on a 78rpm master....presumably a wax master then converted into acetate. This would then be played back, and Maclean would add the Piano Solo part as appropriate. This has been suggested to me as the first example of a commercially available double-track recording, but I cannot verify this.

 

 

 

Astonsihingly, this "double track" 78rpm disc, which I have on a cleaner-up CD version using the Cedar process, is about 99% accurate, with just the odd rush in the piano part as the orchestra looms. It really is quite an astonishing achievement by any standards, but then, he was taught by Straube and Reger!!

 

My personal Maclean favourite has to be his almost contrapuntal version of "The old man of the mountain," where he works in part of Peer Gynt. (Sp?)

 

Maybe I need to do a bit of research concerning Welte rolls, and I may be jumping to conclusions. Does anyone know how faithful the Lemare rolls are to the original performance?

 

If they are faithful, they are quite mind-blowingly brilliant!

 

MM

[

 

I am delighted to learn that the Maclean performance exists. The next question then, is how to get hold of a copy, which I shall have to pursue with some dligence. I have been an admirer of Maclean ever since I acquired the 3 volume Sterndale set of performances at Marble Arch, and I love the Grieg Concerto, so the possibility of being able to combine the two presents an irresistible temptation, which I shall make no effort to resist. Further proof, were it needed, of the observation by Frederic Bayco that "Mac began where the rest of us left off" and an object lesson to some of the more precious young men (and they are generally men) who display a very supercilious attitude to the likes of Maclean, and Foort for what I suppose one would term dubious scholarship/inauthenticity when they ventured to perform music actually written for the organ, as, from time to time, they did. Yet they played to large audiences and the "authenticists" (at least in this country) play to tiny (and ever shrinking) ones. Perhaps historical authenticity is not the first priority of those who might comprise an audience ?

 

Brian Childs

[MusingMuso]

I am delighted to learn that the Maclean performance exists.

 

Further proof, were it needed, of the observation by Frederic Bayco that "Mac began where the rest of us left off" and an object lesson to some of the more precious young men (and they are generally men) who display a very supercilious attitude to the likes of Maclean, and Foort for what I suppose one would term dubious scholarship/inauthenticity

 

=================

 

An interesting point Brian.

 

I wonder how many people realise that Quentin Maclean was the only theatre organist ever to give the pre-award recital at the Royal College of Organists?

 

Pity they haven't invited Hector Olivera!

 

MM

[Brian Childs]

An interesting point Brian.

 

I wonder how many people realise that Quentin Maclean was the only theatre organist ever to give the pre-award recital at the Royal College of Organists?

 

Pity they haven't invited Hector Olivera!

 

MM

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I knew that he had given the recital, though not that he was the only theatre organist to be so "honoured". Strange since I believe he did not hold any Diploma from the College, unlike some of his compatriots, such as Foort or George Blackmore .

 

I have never heard Olivera live but I have a couple of his CDs and they are pretty impressive. One is on an electronic instrument which presumably ought not to be mentioned on this site, but I will anyway ! And incurr more wrath by admitting to preferring to listen to a top of the range electronic in the hands of a master rather than a third rate pipe organ played by a county standard player who will never rise to test level.

 

Brian

[JERRY]

RE Royal Albert HALL Recital.

 

I notice someone said that they preferred live concerts to CDs. I have a different sort of problem.

 

I used to belong to the organ club, but I have perfect pitch.

 

Some churches were excellent, but I am sorry to say that others either had some sort of problem, or had not been tuned before the visit.

 

I found the Albert Hall to be fine on the two occasions I went there.

 

I have never yet found a CD or Tape that has been recorded when the organ was not in tune.

 

What are other people's views on this.

[Tony Newnham]

RE Royal Albert HALL Recital.

 

I notice someone said  that they preferred live concerts to CDs. I have a different sort of problem.

 

I used to belong to the organ club, but I have perfect pitch.

 

Some churches were excellent, but I am sorry to say that others either had some sort of problem, or had not been tuned before the visit.

 

I  found the Albert Hall to be fine on the two occasions I went there.

 

I have never yet found a CD or Tape that has been recorded when the organ was not in tune.

 

What are other people's views on this.

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Hi

 

Don't forget that a good many organs are not tuned to standard pitch (which has itself varied over the years!). The instrument may well be in tune with itself, but way adrift from A=440HZ - and it's quite common for early music to be at A=415Hz (a bout a semi-tone flat).

 

Every Blessing

 

Tony

[Colin Richell]

I have now served my penance, and it is good to be back.

I have spent much time reading the messages on this site, and I see that there is frequent reference to the Alexandra Palace Organ.

As I have some up to date news about the developers, I hope that the Moderator will unlock the AP site.

There is obviously much disagreement about the RAH organ and Dame Gillian Weir. I did not attend the concert, and i am not an organist, and for that reason I do not consider that I should criticise anyone's playing unless I were in their class.

Obviously some people feel obliged to impose their opinions on us mortals, whereas I am passionate about the AP organ, and I have tried to explain why I am no longer OFFICIALLY involved. not attempting to convince everyone that the restoration WILL be completed, only to those who are prepared to believe it.

The RAH is perfect for organ concerts,and does not have to share space with exhibitions etc.

I am delighted that the RAH organ was restored. but I do not have any passion about the RFH organ, but perhaps I do not like the building.

I hope the Moderator will allow me to advise AP developments, to those who are interested,

Colin Richell (My real name and proud of it)

[Benbow]

the Alexandra Palace Organ. ...As I have some up to date news about the developers, I hope that the Moderator will unlock the AP [thread]....I hope the Moderator will allow me to advise AP developments, to those who are interested,

Colin Richell (My real name and proud of it)

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Could you give me time to consult John Mander on your request - I think that he is sur le continent at the moment, so I will have to e-mail him and await his answer - in the meantime, any chance instead of your putting your updates on another web site and then posting the URL of that web site here?

 

Mander Organs webmaster

[Colin Richell]

Could you give me time to consult John Mander on your request - I think that he is sur le continent at the moment, so I will have to e-mail him and await his answer - in the meantime, any chance instead of your putting your updates on another web site and then posting the URL of that web site here?

 

Mander Organs webmaster

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I do not realy know any other web sites that I could use.

Probably best to wait until you hear from John.

 

Colin Richell