Music Of 1921

[Guest Nigel ALLCOAT]

Most interesting - and I am happy to accept that this would work; but I confess that I find the idea of salaried registrants slightly odd, even if they are extremely proficient.

 

Oh well, if the music sounds OK, then it must be alright - but I still would not wish to rely on such a method. Do the registrants have equally able deputies, in the event of illness or accident?

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I imagine that it was one way of keeping the population happy when the electric blower superceded the hand pumpers - who were of course paid from the proud municipal coffers (hence the Town Organist and Church organist positions being separate). Anyway, the player cannot reach the far end of the rows of stops if a change within a piece is required. Mozart would have had therefore, a whole entourage to facilitate his enjoyment which subsequently provided us with the King of Instruments quote.

 

And yes - there are deputies too. All extremely helpful and worth their weight in Gulden (as they were!)

 

NJA

[MusingMuso]

Just to end my input on all this, it came as a complete shock to be asked to record the Alexander Glazunof Fantasie on The Bavo. Not enough notes I said. Play down an octave and we will adjust the registration, they said.  And so they did - crescendi and all! What incredible fun it all was, and every note heard as if on the score. The two (paid by the Town) registrants knew their stuff (one now the Church Organist). I have the radio recording to prove it. And this was a piece written for Dupré at St S in Paris. The same goes for really modern music too on this extraordinary instrument.

 

Best wishes for a fruitful week.

NJA

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Now that IS a fascinating insight into what goes on behind the Rugwerk at Haarlem.

 

The number of times that I've tried to work out just HOW an organist gets those crescendos, English full-swell effects and the like at St.Bavo....but they do!

 

I think Mr pcnd asked what sort of romantic music is played at Haarlem on a regular basis, so here is my contribution to what I've heard at Orgel Konzerten, which doesn't quite fit into the idea of a "baroque organ."

 

Liszt - Ad Nos

BACH

 

Mendelssohn - No's 4 and 6

 

Frank Bridge - Can't recall what it was, but it worked well.

 

Cocker - Tuba Tune (OK, you can laugh as I did....not quite York Minster!)

 

Vierne - Finale 1st Symphony

 

Widor - Allegro from No.6

 

Saint-Seans - ?? (That thing with two manuals and two flutes in alternate chords, followed by the loud bit)

Also, the three Fantasies.

 

Guilmant - Grande Choeur in D major

 

Messaien - La Nativite

 

Jesus Guiridi - Offertoria

 

Bossi - Theme and variations

 

Reger - This is why I go quite often to Haarlem. I have heard some utterly stupendous performances of many big Reger works....too many to list in fact, but I walked on air after hearing the big BACH there.

 

On disc, I have various romantic organ-works performed by Jos van der Kooy, (InterSound DD 1013) "Spectacular Romantics."

 

The music includes the Reger Fantasy & Fugue in D minor (Op.135b)

 

Most remarkable of all in some ways, are the previously unknown and quite beautiful "Saetas no's 2 and 4" by the Spanish organist/composer (Seville Cathedral?) Eduardo Garcia Torres (1872-1939), which combine modality with gypsy tunes.

 

I guess you get the idea just how brilliant the registrands at Haarlem are, but to hear an "English full swell" creep into a baroque organ, is really quite remarkable.

 

When a host in Holland says, "Play the solo of Liebster Jesu two octaves low on the 2ft" he means it.

 

They are so ridiculously tall, with arms like crabs....I return to England with neck-ache, just talking to them.

 

MM

[Guest Nigel ALLCOAT]

=======================

 

so here is my contribution to what I've heard at Orgel Konzerten, which doesn't quite fit into the idea of a "baroque organ."

 

 

Cocker - Tuba Tune  (OK, you can laugh as I did....not quite York Minster!)

 

 

MM

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Ha! Not so much a Baroque organ, just an ORGAN. I can say that the Cornet IV of the Rugwerk/Positif has the presence and panache of an English solo reed. So, why not! Go Cocker.

NJA

[MusingMuso]

Ha! Not so much a Baroque organ, just an ORGAN. I can say that the Cornet IV of the Rugwerk/Positif has the presence and panache of an English solo reed. So,  why not! Go Cocker.

NJA

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========================

 

So what happens when you get to top A of the accompaniment?

 

I think I just missed it out, added things and relied on the Mixtures supplying the missing note! (That's the official version)

 

Actually, if the truth be known, I hurt my little finger as I stabbed the side-cheeks....how's that for sloppy practise and workmanship?

 

 

MM

[Pierre Lauwers]

About Reger, here is something that might be worth a hearing.

 

Heinz Wunderlich, a Straube's pupil, on the great Sauer organ in Berlin.

First link is a crescendo, the second a decrescendo.

 

Note the importance of the Gambas, the moment at which the reeds

are added, and the moment at which the mixtures (with tierces) are

added.

 

http://www.walckerorgel.de/gewalcker.de/Wu...Reger_Cresc.mp3

 

 

http://www.walckerorgel.de/gewalcker.de/Wu...ger_Decresc.mp3

 

Best wishes,

Pierre

[Guest paul@trinitymusic.karoo.co.uk]

=======================

 

Reger -  This is why I go quite often to Haarlem. I have heard some utterly stupendous performances of many big Reger works....too many to list in fact, but I walked on air after hearing the big BACH there.

 

On disc, I have various romantic organ-works performed by Jos van der Kooy, (InterSound DD 1013) "Spectacular Romantics."

 

The music includes the Reger Fantasy & Fugue in D minor (Op.135b)

 

Most remarkable of all in some ways, are the previously unknown and quite beautiful "Saetas no's 2 and 4" by the Spanish organist/composer (Seville Cathedral?) Eduardo Garcia Torres (1872-1939), which combine modality with gypsy tunes.

 

I guess you get the idea just how brilliant the registrands at Haarlem are, but to hear an "English full swell" creep into a baroque organ, is really quite remarkable.

 

When a host in Holland says, "Play the solo of Liebster Jesu two octaves low on the 2ft" he means it.

 

They are so ridiculously tall, with arms like crabs....I return to England with neck-ache, just talking to them.

 

MM

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It is a bit disconcerting not to have to do any of the registration yourself! My, those registrants work really hard in the sort of repertoire mentioned above!

 

My last recital in Holland was in a Reger Festival and I had to do 'Straf' mich nicht''. It came out OK, but one did wonder quite why it had to be done on such a heavy action and an awkward console. The stop question has been covered above - I still ran out of notes on the pedalboard. I do wonder, just a little, why the Dutch are quite so fascinated by Reger. They ignore so much else, in fact virtually everything else from the same period and virtually everything Dutch from any period!. In that series (in Delft) with (I think) fourteen players giving recitals there was a total of three Dutch works played in total. I played two of them!

 

Down the road from where I played (The Niewe Kerk - N.B. not new , of course!) stands the Catholic Cathedral with 'the real thing' (as far as Reger is concerned) a genuine big, untouched German organ complete with Rollschweller. Do they play Reger there? No. The organist wants to play Bach there and wishes she was organist of somewhere else. At least, being Hollond, she is not trying to have her instrument changed.

[heva]

When a host in Holland says, "Play the solo of Liebster Jesu two octaves low on the 2ft" he means it.

 

They are so ridiculously tall, with arms like crabs....I return to England with neck-ache, just talking to them.

 

MM

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Shall we stick with "tall" ??

[heva]

It is a bit disconcerting not to have to do any of the registration yourself!  My, those registrants work  really hard in the sort of repertoire mentioned above!

 

My last recital in Holland was in a Reger Festival and I had to do 'Straf' mich nicht''.  It came out OK, but one did wonder quite why it had to be done on such a heavy action and an awkward console. The stop question has been covered above - I still ran out of notes on the pedalboard.  I do wonder, just a little, why the Dutch are quite so fascinated by Reger.  They ignore so much else, in fact virtually everything else from the same period and virtually everything Dutch from any period!.  In that series (in Delft) with (I think) fourteen players giving recitals there was a total of three Dutch works played in total. I played two of them!

 

Down the road from where I played (The Niewe Kerk - N.B. not new , of course!) stands the Catholic Cathedral with 'the real thing' (as far as Reger is concerned) a genuine big, untouched German organ complete with Rollschweller.  Do they play Reger there? No.  The organist wants to play Bach there and wishes she was organist of somewhere else.  At least, being Hollond, she is not trying to have her instrument changed.

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Maybe that Reger's music compensates some emotions that are lacking in the (more ore less) orthodox protestant population? Anyway, 'we' Dutch lack an healthy amount of chauvinism, maybe that's why we don't play our own legacy (on the other hand the things that áre played over often overestimated in my opinion)

 

The organ in the catholic church (not a cathedral) you refer to (by Maarschalkerweerd) is in restoration and should be finished somewhere in 2008.

[MusingMuso]

Shall we stick with "tall"  ??

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=======================

 

Look, when you've just done an Amsterdam Marathon, running alongside a 2 m high Hollander between the Reijksmuseum and the Oude Kerk, the only word is ridiculous. I guess it's all to do with genetics and natural selection....the tall ones kept their heads above water!!

 

At least I didn't refer to them as big! (That's more a German/American thing, I guess)

 

I still haven't forgiven the Dutch for the time I went to a night-bar (I refrain from using the word "club" which has quite a different meaning) where I was offered a couple of cigarettes.

 

"Be courteous," I thought, "They may taste strange, but they are foreigners and I musn't create an international incident by declining the hospitality."

 

Silly me! Two days later, I was still dragging my knuckles along the pavements!

 

I'm surprised that I wasn't found floating in a canal, but I do recall "inspecting" the organ at St.Lauren's,Rotterdam (the day after going to that bar) and playing Bach. It was an ever so majestic performance, (slow is possibly more accurate) and as the final notes eventually faded away, my host, who have been turning the pages left to right, said, "Very interesting! Do all English organists play wiz de music upside ways?"

 

Memories, memories! If only I could.

 

My best advice is to catch a plane and a train, listen to Reger and fly home.

 

Don't get involved with these people!!

 

 

MM

[heva]

My best advice is to catch a plane and a train, listen to Reger and fly home.

 

Don't get involved with these people!!

 

 

MM

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A bit difficult being a 6-foot-5-inch Dutch

Besides - there's Amsterdam (isn't that called 'sinkpot of the empire'?) and there's 'The Netherlands' ...

 

But then there are those among 'us' who do the reverse: catch a boat and a train and listen St.Pauls or Westm.Cath.

[pcnd5584]

=======================

 

I think Mr pcnd asked what sort of romantic music is played at Haarlem on a regular basis, so here is my contribution to what I've heard at Orgel Konzerten, which doesn't quite fit into the idea of a "baroque organ."

 

Liszt      -    Ad Nos

                    BACH

 

Mendelssohn - No's 4 and 6

 

Frank Bridge -  Can't recall what it was, but it worked well.

 

Cocker - Tuba Tune  (OK, you can laugh as I did....not quite York Minster!)

 

Vierne -  Finale 1st Symphony

 

Widor -  Allegro from No.6

 

Saint-Seans - ??  (That thing with two manuals and two flutes in alternate chords, followed by the loud bit) 

                          Also, the three Fantasies.

 

Guilmant - Grande Choeur in D major

 

Messaien - La Nativite

 

Jesus Guiridi - Offertoria

 

Bossi - Theme and variations

 

Reger -  This is why I go quite often to Haarlem. I have heard some utterly stupendous performances of many big Reger works....too many to list in fact, but I walked on air after hearing the big BACH there.

 

On disc, I have various romantic organ-works performed by Jos van der Kooy, (InterSound DD 1013) "Spectacular Romantics."

 

The music includes the Reger Fantasy & Fugue in D minor (Op.135b)...

 

...I guess you get the idea just how brilliant the registrands at Haarlem are, but to hear an "English full swell" creep into a baroque organ, is really quite remarkable.

 

When a host in Holland says, "Play the solo of Liebster Jesu two octaves low on the 2ft" he means it.

 

 

MM

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Good grief! That is incredible. I would love to hear some of this played at Sint Bavo - and to be up in the loft watching the player and registrants at work!

 

Only one piece really worries me - the Cocker - seriously?!

 

Incidentally, the Saint-Saëns piece to which you alluded is the Fantasie in E-flat major. A good piece - but one would probably not wish to play it on an organ with an old tubular-pneumatic transmission....

[MusingMuso]

Good grief! That is incredible. I would love to hear some of this played at Sint Bavo - and to be up in the loft watching the player and registrants at work!

 

Only one piece really worries me - the Cocker - seriously?!

 

Incidentally, the Saint-Saëns piece to which you alluded is the Fantasie in E-flat major. A good piece - but one would probably not wish to play it on an organ with an old tubular-pneumatic transmission....

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======================

 

Give the Diutch credit, they seem to be able to work around all the problems of "romantic" registration, but the Cocker stretched the limits a bit. It sounded like all the 8ft stops of the Hoofdwerk plus a less than imposing Trumpet.

 

Still, we got the melody when it thundered out in the pedals!

 

 

MM

[headcase]

Fans of St Bavo may be interested in this link :

 

http://www.bavo.nl/bladen/live.htm

 

This is a live webcam link, operated during daylight hours mainly and requires Quick Time. Last time I logged on someone was tuning the reeds !

 

H

[MichaelDavidson]

Hello good people!

I've been asked to give a recital on an organ (not saying where!) which was built by H&H in 1921-biggish- tuba, ped ophicleide...you get the idea. I thought of playing some music from the time. So does anyone know of organ music written in or around 1921 (I know about B. Harwood) or where I might be able to find out about some?

F-W.

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If you are looking for English composers from that period you could do worse than to pull out a copy of "A Little Organ Book in Memory of Hubert Parry" which was (I think) published in 1924, about 6 years after Parry's death. In it you will find Parry himself, Stanford, Herbert Brewer, Alan Gray, Charles Macpherson, Ivor Atkins, Frank Bridge, Harold Darke, Charles Wood, Walter Alcock, GTB, Henry Ley and Walford Davies.

 

Not all great music by any means but it definitely evokes that era.

[Guest Roffensis]

[father-willis]

Now would that be Crediton Parish Church, by any chance?

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Exactly right!! This organ is obviously very much on your mind!

 

Many thanks for the music suggestions from people, I will go and try a few and see how they work on the Crediton H&H. I think the most unfortunate point about Crediton is the unsympathetic acoustic. One enters the building sees that it is a large church but unfortunately there is very little "help". No reverb, just what I call the "after-shock" of the organ sound travelling around the building. I think it must be the stone used in construction, which has a very rough surace. Maybe the church authorities could start a programme of polishing the internal stone-work...or maybe just plastering the walls-which could, of course, be decorated...?

 

F-W

[pcnd5584]

Exactly right!! This organ is obviously very much on your mind!

 

Many thanks for the music suggestions from people, I will go and try a few and see how they work on the Crediton H&H. I think the most unfortunate point about Crediton is the unsympathetic acoustic. One enters the building sees that it is a large church but unfortunately there is very little "help". No reverb, just what I call the "after-shock" of the organ sound travelling around the building. I think it must be the stone used in construction, which has a very rough surace. Maybe the church authorities could start a programme of polishing the internal stone-work...or maybe just plastering the walls-which could, of course, be decorated...?

 

F-W

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Well, I hope that the recital goes well and that you enjoy the experience!

 

I think that the building is largely constructed from sandstone, which is quite porous, prone to weathering and not known for its sound-reflective properties!

[Guest acc]

Hello good people!

I've been asked to give a recital on an organ (not saying where!) which was built by H&H in 1921-biggish- tuba, ped ophicleide...you get the idea. I thought of playing some music from the time. So does anyone know of organ music written in or around 1921 (I know about B. Harwood) or where I might be able to find out about some?

F-W.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Marcel Dupré's Symphonie-Passion is right on the mark: it originated as an improvisation at Wanamaker's in Philadelphia in 1921.

 

There is also Paul de Maleingreau's Symphonie de la Passion of 1920. (I don't know whether that work's title had any influence on Dupré.)

[Martin Cooke]

On 21/01/2006 at 00:07, Guest paul@trinitymusic.karoo.co.uk said:

So, 1920's.......and British.........

I can't resist starting with a personal favourite: Alec Rowley - Four Winds Suite

[Good luck with tracking down a copy. It exists in Braille - David Liddle plays it. The RCO Library have two movements of the four. I have them all (.... somewhere!)]

 

Something caused me to look back at this topic, and I thought I would mention that, 16 years on wince the original post, Rowley's Four Winds is available on imslp.

[sbarber49]

3 hours ago, Martin Cooke said:

Something caused me to look back at this topic, and I thought I would mention that, 16 years on wince the original post, Rowley's Four Winds is available on imslp.

Not out of copyright yet, of course.