MusingMuso Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 Quite a nice piece, echoes of Howells in places.............. ................really needs (a) Dulciana <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ====================== Two lost causes in the same opus? Wonderful stuff! MM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre Lauwers Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 ====================== Two lost causes in the same opus? Wonderful stuff! MM <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Frightening, isn't it? I can assure you we shall keep such silly ideas our side of the Channel, don't worry. We could buy the pipes in England, and export some Schnarrwerk in exchange. Fair trade. Best wishes, Pierre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andrew Butler Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 On the Great, there is an 8-foot Gemshorn that starts 'cello-like in the bass and becomes a rather big flute in the treble. We're getting off the original topic here, but ok - what should a Gemshorn sound like - assuming it's properly constructed ie conical? (I have come across so called Gemshorns with cylindrical pipes) I have known 4' and 2' examples that were of bright principal tone, yet there is an 8' example on the swell at a church near me that is a rather wooly fluty stringy quality (best description I can manage!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcnd5584 Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 Frightening, isn't it?I can assure you we shall keep such silly ideas our side of the Channel, don't worry. We could buy the pipes in England, and export some Schnarrwerk in exchange. Fair trade. Best wishes, Pierre <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If you are really keen, Pierre, you can by our GO Dulciana. It has been lying on the floor of the chamber since I had it replaced with a superb second-hand Gamba. The Dulciana was, for the record, never used by either my boss or myself - or, for that matter (as far as I know), any visiting organist. This is largely because, as has already been said by MM, they tend to be close to inaudible and of no use in either accompanying or solo work. I do know of at least one organist who likes to accompany an Oboe with a Dulciana. Personally, I always accompany an Oboe with a Flute - a Dulciana is not sufficiently differentiated in timbre, to my ears. The only purpose our Dulciana currently has is to take up space in the base of the chamber. Since it has a full-length metal bass octave, the saving in space would be considerable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajt Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 What exactly does everyone use a Dulciana for? There is one on the Great at one of the churches where I play regularly, and I recently used it alone for the 1st time - after 33 years! - while improvising before a very late-starting service. On some organs I have tried it as an accompaniment for say the swell oboe, but it is invariably too quiet. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I have a Choir Dulciana, and never use it for anything on the Choir. However, it's borrowed on the pedal, and it's actually the most useful 16' pedal stop on the instrument, largely because it actually speaks, unlike a few of the others! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajt Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 Greetings, How was this Dulzian constructed? I know two examples, both on Holtkamp instruments at 16' pitch on the Great. One is made of copper for most of its compass (I don't recall if it changes to something else off hand), with flapped cap slides on the top. The other example has quadrangular wood resonators with tuning flaps. It is interesting, given that the resonators are mostly covered, what a growly texture they have. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I have a 16' Dulzian on the Swell - I'll try to dig out some pictures of it. Essentially it sounds like a mellower Contra Fagotto or such like. I love it for creating a "full swell" effect at half the volume - the swell reeds are Dulzian 16, Oboe 8, Waldhorn 16, Trumpet 8, Clarion 4. The latter three totally dominate the flue work - there's very little point in having the 8 4 2 chorus drawn. However, with the Dulzian + Oboe + 8 4 2 (no Mixture), you get a lovely rich sound, perfect for choral accompaniment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre Lauwers Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 "you can by our GO Dulciana." (Quote) This is indeed a good idea. Such redundant stops should be carefully stored. We may buy them, you could place adds on my forum. Other stops that could be interesting for us: -Open Diapasons of all kinds -Viole d'orchestre, céleste, octaviante, Cornet de Viols -Trombas and Tubas -Willis Flute d'orchestre and reeds -Hope-Jones pipes -All baroque pipes! So all this kind of material you'd better store than scrap! Best wishes, Pierre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusingMuso Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 The Dulciana was, for the record, never used by either my boss or myself - or, for that matter (as far as I know), any visiting organist. This is largely because they tend to be close to inaudible and of no use in either accompanying or solo work. I do know of at least one organist who likes to accompany an Oboe with a Dulciana. . <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ======================= The Dulciana DOES have a use, like carbon-dating in archeology. If it sounds quiet, it is possibly late 19th C to early 20th C, but if it cannot be heard at all, it is probably 18th to mid-19th century, It is entirely related to the amount of backbround noise on a Sunday, which nowadays is as busy as any other. Amateur astronomers have the same problem with night-time light pollution. MM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vox Humana Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 We're getting off the original topic here, but ok - what should a Gemshorn sound like - assuming it's properly constructed ie conical? (I have come across so called Gemshorns with cylindrical pipes) I have known 4' and 2' examples that were of bright principal tone, yet there is an 8' example on the swell at a church near me that is a rather wooly fluty stringy quality (best description I can manage!) I once asked a chap to write an article for our local organists' association magazine, explaining the different stop families for the benefit of beginner organists. I was rather surprised to see he included the Gemshorn among the flutes. When I quizzed him on it he cited an example on a local organ that he thought particularly beautiful. I have to say I have never yet come across one like this. All the Gemshorns I have ever heard (and I've heard a lot) have been of bright Principal tone. The American examples I've heard have been rather duller and rounder though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nigel ALLCOAT Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 A good Dulciana is a gem - a gentle Principal with much use actually (C18th coming from Snetzler I think). Great little mixer! Gemshorn is a horny haunting sound from a good one and lies between Flute/Bourdon and gentle singing Principal. Excellent in the creation of a Portunal 16' or at 8' when its sound appears about 1/3 up in the register and begins to bind so well with the rest of the Principals. However, many builders have idiosyncratic thoughts and I imagine that great variations will occur. Therefore, for most of the time, take little notice of stop names. Use ears to discern what you think it is. Making up paper specifications is like taking the same shopping list for the larder to 10 different branded supermarkets. And how odd that we started this board with a reed! Such fun. Best wishes, NJA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcnd5584 Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 "you can by our GO Dulciana." (Quote) This is indeed a good idea. Such redundant stops should be carefully stored. We may buy them, you could place adds on my forum. Best wishes, Pierre <{POST_SNAPBACK}> OK - I will ask our Priest if we can sell it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre Lauwers Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 OK - I will ask our Priest if we can sell it! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I suggest you log in and place the add here: http://forum.aceboard.net/18898-2672-0-Ann...s-questions.htm Best wishes, Pierre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Harvey Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 I have a Choir Dulciana, and never use it for anything on the Choir. However, it's borrowed on the pedal, and it's actually the most useful 16' pedal stop on the instrument, largely because it actually speaks, unlike a few of the others! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Is that Peartree? Yes - I like that stop! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajt Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 Is that Peartree? Yes - I like that stop! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Nope, St. Mary's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfortin Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 To get back to the original question, there are some excellent single Great reeds out there under the name 'Posaune'. Excuse my ignorance, but what is the technical or theoretical difference between a Posaune and a Trumpet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcnd5584 Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 ======================= ...It is entirely related to the amount of background noise on a Sunday, which nowadays is as busy as any other. ... MM <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No - it was still virtually inaudible in an empty church at the dead of night. So, about as much use as fitting wheels to a tomato, then.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre Lauwers Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 No - it was still virtually inaudible in an empty church at the dead of night. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Maybe *after* having endured the sheer noise of our "civilisation" (traffic, dancings and the likes) for years...And now we have these MP3's directly on the ears. Maybe the next generation will need heavy-wind Dulcianas . Best wishes, Pierre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusingMuso Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 To get back to the original question, there are some excellent single Great reeds out there under the name 'Posaune'. Excuse my ignorance, but what is the technical or theoretical difference between a Posaune and a Trumpet? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> =================== I think technically and theoretically, it is usually just the spelling. Nevertheless, I always think Great reeds sound better when the stop-heads have red-lettering on them. MM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcnd5584 Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 =================== I think technically and theoretically, it is usually just the spelling. Nevertheless, I always think Great reeds sound better when the stop-heads have red-lettering on them. MM <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Certainly, those Posaune ranks which I have heard often tend to have a little more body than some Trumpet stops. However, it depends on the builder and any house-style to which they might adhere. Your second point - huh? Personally, I prefer red engraving for couplers and tremulants only - I dislike reeds lettered in red! This is, of course, only a personal preference. However, I do think that there is a great variety of choice, here. On an instrument which I used to play (and which I had the pleasure of re-designing for a major rebuild) a new Trumpet rank was added to the GO. In fact, the pipes were second-hand, it was originally a rank made by Sweetland. Apart from being slightly tweaked in order that it should speak on 150mm pressure, it was not altered and is one of the best GO Trumpet stops which I have heard. The pipes are not mitred or hooded; I had the organ builder install a sounding-board angled out above the pipes, in order to deflect the tone out into the aisle and to help protect the rank from dust. On my own church instrument now, I have two reeds on the GO a Trumpet and Clarion, both of independent pipes and with harmonic trebles. The wind pressure is approximately 80mm. The tone is superb - they will give a good account of practically anything from Clérambault to Messiaen, although there is perhaps not quite enough body or éclat for really large-scale music. However, I would not wish to alter the timbre, in case the ranks were thus spoiled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcnd5584 Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 Edited blank - yet another mysterious duplicate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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