Bridlington Priory Organ

[MusingMuso]

I am not sure that your latter point is the reason, MM.

 

I have been in a fair number of French churches of varying sizes, but all with stone vaulting throughout; the buildings often appear to be constructed of Caen stone. Without exception, even the small village churches have a wonderful acoustic.

 

I had also heard that the type of sandstone used at Lichfield made for a poor sound-reflecting surface. Exeter is also constructed from sandstone (in addition to Purbeck marble and a few other types of stone); I have found this building also to be disappointing in terms of resonance and acoustic ambience. However, like Lichfield, I find Exeter to be stunningly beautiful.

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I somehow doubt that ANY stone is a "poor reflective surface" as compared to many other materials in use.

 

Thinks about this for a moment.........

 

To kill sound waves, one either needs absorbency or flexibility.....that's the difference between, say, modern fibre-board and a sheet of soft rubber; both of which would kill sound (trying to avoid a pun) "stone-dead".

 

There are many building made of soft pine which have good acoustics; especially in Holland, where interiors are often wooden-clad.

 

There are many large buildings made of stone which have singurarly disappointing acoustics.....Bridlington Priory, Halifax PC, Bradford Cathedral, Sheffield Cathedral etc etc.

 

The perfect acoustics are usually associated with buildings in which there is a striuct mathematical relationship between length, width, height.....hence the usual reference to "the classic double-cube". The church in which I am fortunate to play, has the most superb acoustic.....clean, resonant (about 3 secs) and totally devoid of any secondary out-of-phase reflections which give that sort of throbbing resonance found in many cathedrals.

 

So it isn't just a question of materials or size, but more related to "shape" and mathematical proportion.

 

Of course, that said, sandstone will not have the same reflective properties of materials such as marble, brick or granite, but equally, it should be an awful lot more reflective than pinewood.

 

Without knowing the dimensions of Lichfield Cathedral, I cannot comment about the mathematics of it, but I'd like to bet that it's not in perfect proportion.

 

Other large churches which surprise with their lack of great resonance, include the huge church of Holy Trinity, Hull and Doncaster Parish Church; both of which LOOK as if they should have a vast resonance, but in fact, do not.

 

I would hate to be an acoustic engineer.....I would be taking overdoses every other day!!

 

MM

[mgp]

I played there for a week in 2002 and much enjoyed it. I was told that the dryish acoustic was the result of the replacement of the nave (stone) vault with a plaster one (for weight reasons). Don't know if its true.

[Paul Hale]

I wonder if I could comment, please, on the Bridlington Priory thread?

 

Some have commented on the mixtures; here is some information about them.

 

Sadly there is no Anneessens chorus mixture. Anneessens supplied a Cornet 2-4 ranks for the Great and a Mixture 5 ranks on the Swell. The Great Cornet largely remains, fleshed out into 4 ranks from middle C by Compton in 1949, and now by Nicholsons as 5 ranks from middle C, replacing the Compton rank by a more appropriate one. Of the Swell Mixture only the Twelfth rank remains, made separately available in 1968 when Laycock & Bannister added a new Swell 5-rank Mixture.

 

In 1968 five new mixtures were added: Great 19.22.26 and 29.33.36; Swell 19.22.26.29.33; Positive 26.29.33; Pedal 19.22.26.29.

 

To later ears (certainly mine) many of these stops were both pitched too high to start with and broke back irrationally and too late. Consequently they stood away from the rest of the flues and only became almost tolerable when the Great reeds were all drawn. Even then the Great Cymbal sat hopelessly on top.

 

My suggestions were to scrap the Great Cymbal and replace it with the Positive Scharf (too high to sit on top of the Postive chorus which, typically, had no 2ft Principal - such a central rank for a Positive with pretensions to a principal chorus), to remove the top rank of the Swell Mixture (the 33rd) and to rethink the breaking pattern of all the manual mixtures so that each broke back early enough to reach down to and reinforce the chorus with which it is designed to work.

 

This has been done, and I believe the resulting choruses are really splendid, the full coupled flues possessing tremendous richness, depth and complexity, with plenty of natural brightness.

 

The 32ft Tubasson totally dominated the organ until the recent work, when it was moved two bays east and thoroughly repaired and regulated. It now blends in very well, though - yes - has sadly lost in the church some of the animal excitement it used to possess. Still, the general gains with the rebuilt organ [by improving the layout] are so huge that this one slight disappointment has to been considered in context.

 

I would be so thrilled if folk come to hear it when I give a concert at Bridlington this Saturday (29th July) at - NB - 6pm. The programme is designed to show as much of the organ's colour as can possibly be displayed in one concert and included Bach's Zei Gregrüsset variations as well as the Willan Intro, passacaglia & fugue, Franck Chorale I, Howells 'Master Tallis', Vierne's 'Clair de Lûne', a Fanfare by Cook and some variations by Dandrieu.

 

Paul Hale

[MusingMuso]

I wonder if I could comment, please, on the Bridlington Priory thread?

 

Some have commented on the mixtures; here is some information about them.

 

Sadly there is no Anneessens chorus mixture.  Anneessens supplied a Cornet 2-4 ranks for the Great and a Mixture 5 ranks on the Swell.  The Great Cornet largely remains, fleshed out into 4 ranks from middle C by Compton in 1949, and now by Nicholsons as 5 ranks from middle C, replacing the Compton rank by a more appropriate one.  Of  the Swell Mixture only the Twelfth rank remains, made separately available in 1968 when Laycock & Bannister added a new Swell 5-rank Mixture.

 

In 1968 five new mixtures were added:  Great 19.22.26 and 29.33.36;  Swell 19.22.26.29.33;  Positive 26.29.33;  Pedal 19.22.26.29.

 

To later ears (certainly mine) many of these stops were both pitched too high to start with and broke back irrationally and too late.  Consequently they stood away from the rest of the flues and only became almost tolerable when the Great reeds were all drawn.  Even then the Great Cymbal sat hopelessly on top.

 

My suggestions were to scrap the Great Cymbal and replace it with the Positive Scharf (too high to sit on top of the Postive chorus which, typically, had no 2ft Principal - such a central rank for a Positive with pretensions to a principal chorus), to remove the top rank of the Swell Mixture (the 33rd) and to rethink the breaking pattern of all the manual mixtures so that each broke back early enough to reach down to and reinforce the chorus with which it is designed to work.

 

This has been done, and I believe the resulting choruses are really splendid, the full coupled flues possessing tremendous richness, depth and complexity, with plenty of natural brightness.

 

The 32ft Tubasson totally dominated the organ until the recent work, when it was moved two bays east and thoroughly repaired and regulated.  It now blends in very well, though - yes - has sadly lost in the church some of the animal excitement it used to possess.  Still, the general gains with the rebuilt organ [by improving the layout] are so huge that this one slight disappointment has to been considered in context.

 

I would be so thrilled if folk come to hear it when I give a concert at Bridlington this Saturday (29th July) at - NB - 6pm.  The programme is designed to show as much of the organ's colour as can possibly be displayed in one concert and included Bach's Zei Gregrüsset variations as well as the Willan Intro, passacaglia & fugue, Franck Chorale I, Howells 'Master Tallis', Vierne's 'Clair de Lûne', a Fanfare by Cook and some variations by Dandrieu.

 

Paul Hale

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I recall playing the organ for the first time, when the work was completed in 1968, and I thought then that the Mixtures were a bit daft.

 

As Paul rightly suggests, the upperwork stood apart from the rest of the instrument, but even that had been improved by Denis Thurlow at a later date, but never to the complete satisfaction of the discerning ear.

 

I feel sure that the instrument will now sound better than it did.

 

It's a good programme for the 29th, but sadly, I cannot be there due to the fact that I shall be working all night Friday. I could even have sat through the Howells without venturing out for fish & chips....the only piece I like of his.

 

MM

[heva]

I would be so thrilled if folk come to hear it when I give a concert at Bridlington this Saturday (29th July) at - NB - 6pm.  The programme is designed to show as much of the organ's colour as can possibly be displayed in one concert and included Bach's Zei Gregrüsset variations as well as the Willan Intro, passacaglia & fugue, Franck Chorale I, Howells 'Master Tallis', Vierne's 'Clair de Lûne', a Fanfare by Cook and some variations by Dandrieu.

 

Paul Hale

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I'd love to, but it's just a bit too far on saturday (have too play Mass at 17.00).

Why not recording it and put it in mp3 somewhere?

 

Mind you, we had a 3man. Anneessens in Breda (with 3 32's). But the old RC Cathedral has been demolished (badly built neo-gothic) and the organ was (ofcourse) considered rubbish in the 1960's (the hautbois only remains in the Grote Kerk; stored that is, it has been replaced by a copy)

[Colin Harvey]

I wonder if I could comment, please, on the Bridlington Priory thread?

 

Some have commented on the mixtures; here is some information about them.

 

Sadly there is no Anneessens chorus mixture.  Anneessens supplied a Cornet 2-4 ranks for the Great and a Mixture 5 ranks on the Swell.  The Great Cornet largely remains, fleshed out into 4 ranks from middle C by Compton in 1949, and now by Nicholsons as 5 ranks from middle C, replacing the Compton rank by a more appropriate one.  Of  the Swell Mixture only the Twelfth rank remains, made separately available in 1968 when Laycock & Bannister added a new Swell 5-rank Mixture.

 

In 1968 five new mixtures were added:  Great 19.22.26 and 29.33.36;  Swell 19.22.26.29.33;  Positive 26.29.33;  Pedal 19.22.26.29.

 

To later ears (certainly mine) many of these stops were both pitched too high to start with and broke back irrationally and too late.  Consequently they stood away from the rest of the flues and only became almost tolerable when the Great reeds were all drawn.  Even then the Great Cymbal sat hopelessly on top.

 

My suggestions were to scrap the Great Cymbal and replace it with the Positive Scharf (too high to sit on top of the Postive chorus which, typically, had no 2ft Principal - such a central rank for a Positive with pretensions to a principal chorus), to remove the top rank of the Swell Mixture (the 33rd) and to rethink the breaking pattern of all the manual mixtures so that each broke back early enough to reach down to and reinforce the chorus with which it is designed to work.

 

This has been done, and I believe the resulting choruses are really splendid, the full coupled flues possessing tremendous richness, depth and complexity, with plenty of natural brightness.

 

The 32ft Tubasson totally dominated the organ until the recent work, when it was moved two bays east and thoroughly repaired and regulated.  It now blends in very well, though - yes - has sadly lost in the church some of the animal excitement it used to possess.  Still, the general gains with the rebuilt organ [by improving the layout] are so huge that this one slight disappointment has to been considered in context.

 

I would be so thrilled if folk come to hear it when I give a concert at Bridlington this Saturday (29th July) at - NB - 6pm.  The programme is designed to show as much of the organ's colour as can possibly be displayed in one concert and included Bach's Zei Gregrüsset variations as well as the Willan Intro, passacaglia & fugue, Franck Chorale I, Howells 'Master Tallis', Vierne's 'Clair de Lûne', a Fanfare by Cook and some variations by Dandrieu.

 

Paul Hale

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Dear Paul

 

This is all very interesting: sadly I will not be able to make it upto Bridlington this satruday but plan to visit later in the year.

 

I am very interested in your comments on the mixtures: could you tell us more about the relationship of the scaling and construction between the mixtures and other stops in the chorus and how they have been treated in the voicing (e.g. whether it was necessary to louden or soften various ranks at various points in the compass) and whether the intention is to give an undiscernable blend between the new and old material or whether it was felt to be better to give a slight difference so that old and new material can just be told apart (but obviously, not enough to hinder the musicality of the sound).

 

Others, if you think my last question is slightly controversial, I am told that the latter option was probably a concious decision on some recent, very high profile projects in Germany.

[Philip Grainge]

Tommy Trotter's playing aside, did anyone get to Bridlington Priory last Saturday and come away as I did, feeling that the organ was found somewhat wanting. Several people I was with felt that the instrument had lost some brilliance.

[Philip Grainge]

Tommy Trotter's playing aside, did anyone get to Bridlington Priory last Saturday and come away as I did, feeling that the organ was found somewhat wanting. Several people I was with felt that the instrument had lost some brilliance.

 

 

I know what you mean! I went to all the recitals last year following the restoration. Although still a fantastic instrument it has definately been tamed - too much for my likeing. I think they have lagged the 32' s and as far as the famous contra tuba with its new chest I think they have locked it up and thrown away the key?

 

Before the restoration you could have a couple of pints a bag of chips and sit anywhere in the priory and be blasted to kingdom come. But now you have to experiment in finding the best place to sit which as it happens is the right hand side front pews, definately avoid the left hand side of the nave unless you have a hearing aid. OK maybe I'm being a bit too harsh cos there are some good things about the refurb I like but I think its lost some of its fire and umph - and you need some of that because the priory accoustic is completely dry (must be those pews).

 

This year the recital series kicks of with John Scott Whitely (April 28th at 6pm) followed by Letizia Romiti, Dr Roy Massey, Philip Rushforth, Marcus Huxley and finally Carlo Curley.

[MusingMuso]

Before the restoration you could have a couple of pints a bag of chips and sit anywhere in the priory and be blasted to kingdom come.

 

 

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Never mind, at least the fish & chip shop is still open, and probably as famous as the priory.

 

MM

[Peter Allison]

Well, as its my birthday on the 28th april I will just have to treat myself to some chips, pint and an organ recital, wonder if J.S W. will have any of his dvd's there to sell??. Its only 45 mins away so I might have to drag the Mrs there as well (kicking and sceaming as she might well do when she has to sit through an hour of "boring music,,again ", her words not mine)

regards

Peter

[Guest Barry Oakley]

Well, as its my birthday on the 28th april I will just have to treat myself to some chips, pint and an organ recital, wonder if J.S W. will have any of his dvd's there to sell??. Its only 45 mins away so I might have to drag the Mrs there as well (kicking and sceaming as she might well do when she has to sit through an hour of "boring music,,again ", her words not mine)

regards

Peter

 

I realise it's digressing, but are most organists and organ enthusiasts very partial to fish and chips? I know I am, particularly from Bridlington, and can vouch for several others. Peter Goodman, the former Hull City Hall organist is particularly fond of them and I can well remember before attending a recital by John Kitchen at the Priory when we sat in the car eating them out of the paper.

[Guest Psalm 78 v.67]

Mmmmmm, Sulivans fish and chips,

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As well as HPC, my weekend organ crawl oop north takes in the City Hell in Hall to hear Carol Williams

 

Mmmm......Carol Williams!

[Vox Humana]

Mmm..... Do they come more hot, tasty and succulent...

 

Where was I?...

 

Um... Do they come more hot, tasty and succulent than the fish and chips you get from the chippy just behind the beach at Aldburgh? Perfection!

[MusingMuso]

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Mmmm......Carol Williams!

 

 

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I was watching one of my favourite films the other day, "The Addams family values," and I realised the value of mixing organ-music with things more visual.

 

 

MM