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Registrating French Romantics On English Organs


Jeremy Jones

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(Any resemblance with any other place is purely accidental) :P
Do you mean that place that, appropriately enough, starts with a "w" and ends with an "r"? Surely not - not when it has a 2' and mixtures on each manual?!
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not when it has a 2' and mixtures on each manual?!

 

Oh, but I know of an organ with two 2' stops and mixtures on each of its four manuals and in the pedal, and of which some people would like to get rid of...

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Oh, but I know of an organ with two 2' stops and mixtures on each of its four manuals and in the pedal, and of which some people would like to get rid of...

 

Is this instrument in the UK?

 

My own instrument has two 2p ranks on the Pedal Organ (one of them a reed) and an independent IV-rank quint mixture. However, it only has one 2p stop on each of the clavier divisions.

 

I find that the Pedal ranks in particular, are extremely useful.

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Is this instrument in the UK?

 

My own instrument has two 2p ranks on the Pedal Organ (one of them a reed) and an independent IV-rank quint mixture. However, it only has one 2p stop on each of the clavier divisions.

 

I find that the Pedal ranks in particular, are extremely useful.

 

I've often wondered, what exactly does one do with a 2ft pedal reed?

 

JJK

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Bach knew many instruments with 2' pedal stops, Pierre...Arnstadt Neue Kirche and  Thomaskirche Lepizig among them. Who knows what he did with said 2' stops, but they're on the stoplist.

 

Yes.

But this was going out of fashion during the very epoch Bach was alive, and he

himself often had no Pedal 2' in his "own" organs.

The tendancy was towards "Gravität"...

 

Weimar for instance (Modified to suit Bach's wishes):

 

OBERWERK

 

Quintatön 16' (Compenius)

Prinzipal 8' (Compenius)

Gemshorn 8' (Compenius)

Grossgedackt 8'

Oktave 4'

Quintatön 4'

Mixtur 6r

Zimbel 3r (Compenius)

Glockenspiel

 

UNTERWERK

 

Prinzipal 8'

Gedackt 8' (Compenius)

Viola di Gamba 8'

Oktave 4'

Kleingedackt 4'

Waldflöte 2' (Compenius)

Sesquialtera 4r

Trompete 8' (Compenius)

 

PEDAL

 

Gross-Untersatz 32'

Subbass 16'

Violonbass 16'

Prinzipalbass 8'

Posaune 16' (Compenius)

Trompete 8'

Cornet 4' (Reed)

 

Tremulant OW

Tremulant UW

Tirasse OW

UW/OW

Cymbelstern

If you want more, I have some other Bach organ's specifications.

 

Pierre

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Yes.

But this was going out of fashion during the very epoch Bach was alive, and he

himself often had no Pedal 2' in his "own" organs.

The tendancy was towards "Gravität"...

 

Pierre

[/quote

I'm sure you're right about the gravitat, Piere, but in what sense are Arnstadt, Thomaskirche Leipzig or Muhlhausen not one of Bach's 'own' organs? They all had a 2'Cornett in the Pedal department.

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LEIPZIG, Thomaskirche (P, H) Main Organ Johann Lange, 1598-1599 Rebuild: Johann Scheibe, 1721-1722

 

Oberwerk

 

Principal 16'

Quintatön 16'

Principal 8'

Spielpfeife 8'

Octava 4'

Quinta 2⅔'

Superoctava 2'

Sesquialtera II doppelt

Mixtur VI/X

Brust

 

Grobgedackt 8'

Principal 4'

Nachthorn 4'

Nasat 2⅔'

Gemshorn 2'

Sesquialtera

Cymbel II

Regal 8'

Geigenregal 4'

 

 

Rückpositiv

 

Principal 8'

Lieblich Gedackt 8'

Quintatön 8'

Klein Gedackt 4'

Spitzflöt 4'

Traversa 4'

Violin 2'

Shallflöt 1'

Rauschquinte doppelt

Sesquialtera

Mixtur IV

Krumbhorn 16'

Trommet 8'

 

Pedal

 

Subbass 16'

Posaunenbass 16'

Trommetenbass 8'

Schallmeyenbass 4'

Cornet 2'

 

Accessories

 

Bird Song

Zimbelstern

Tremulant

Of note: Praetorius specifies a Rückpositiv-to- Pedal coupler, but no other coupler is documented

 

We are still far, but then *quite* far, from the 20th century's would-be-Bach organ.

You have indeed à Pedal 2', but it is a Reed stop. The only flue is the Subbass...

 

Pierre

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Back to French Romantics for a moment - there is a 2' reed on the GO at St Sernin, Toulouse - I would assume for added brilliance in the reed chorus rather than for anything more subtle as far as registration goes.

 

AJJ

 

PS This link is quite fun - nice photos and a bit of Vierne on the video.

 

http://www.xs4all.nl/~twomusic/discography...in/Sernin1.html

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Nope - Belgium. Pierre can probably guess which one I mean.

 

Hé hé hé !

 

About the 2' reeds; does really anyone believe these stops, at St-Sernin as well as the Pedal one at the Thomaskirche Leipzig, were intended for "TI-TU-TI-TA" subtelities?

(This said, it is true in organs built before Bach we often found things like:

Flues 16-8-2, without 4. These 2'flues where indeed made for Solo use)

 

Pierre

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Back to French Romantics for a moment - there is a 2' reed on the GO at St Sernin, Toulouse - I would assume for added brilliance in the reed chorus rather than for anything more subtle as far as registration goes.

 

AJJ

 

PS This link is quite fun - nice photos and a bit of Vierne on the video.

 

http://www.xs4all.nl/~twomusic/discography...in/Sernin1.html

 

Edited blank - see following post.

 

Hmmm, accidental duplication of posts is my least favourite trait of the software on this board. Now I wonder what I do wrong when I get them....?

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Back to French Romantics for a moment - there is a 2' reed on the GO at St Sernin, Toulouse - I would assume for added brilliance in the reed chorus rather than for anything more subtle as far as registration goes.

 

AJJ

 

PS This link is quite fun - nice photos and a bit of Vierne on the video.

 

http://www.xs4all.nl/~twomusic/discography...in/Sernin1.html

 

Thank you for the link, Alastair - this is one of my favourite organs.

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Me too - and Rouen - but only lately re discovered I spent a happy hour yesterday on the new ipod (once the kids had gone to bed) trying to work out what it is about the CC sound that is so interesting. The 'full plus mixtures' etc. is a very complex sound - 'not sure quite what it is about it that makes it so though - maybe the mixture compositions or maybe the tuning! Certainly the harmonics flying about the place certainly make for excitement - the big reeds are only just not too loud! I could listen to Ben Van Oosten's Widor at Rouen over and over again - I've also got Kimberley Marshall playing at Toulouse - odd stuff from Messiaen, Alain etc. but splendid all the same.

 

AJJ

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Me too - and Rouen - but only lately re discovered I spent a happy hour yesterday on the new ipod (once the kids had gone to bed) trying to work out what it is about the CC sound that is so interesting. The 'full plus mixtures' etc. is a very complex sound - 'not sure quite what it is about it that makes it so though - maybe the mixture compositions or maybe the tuning! Certainly the harmonics flying about the place certainly make for excitement - the big reeds are only just not too loud! I could listen to Ben Van Oosten's Widor at Rouen over and over again - I've also got Kimberley Marshall playing at Toulouse - odd stuff from Messiaen, Alain etc. but splendid all the same.

 

AJJ

 

 

=========================

 

Sorry to be a party-pooper, but I find anything above about 'mf' rather coarse on C-C organs.

 

Blackburn is infinitely better in almost all respects IMHO.

 

MM

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I've also got Kimberley Marshall playing at Toulouse - odd stuff from Messiaen, Alain etc. but splendid all the same.

 

Splendid recording indeed - probably the best Dupré P&F in B on the market.

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