father-willis

I became worried about this instrument a souple of weeks ago. Icalled in at Holy Trinity (juat around the corner from All Ss, where I run the music) and eventually spoke to someone on the 'phone about getting to look at/play this organ. I was told that it "might" be OK in a couple of weeks, if it still worked beacause it hadn't been used for a few years. The point was that the church authorities were seeking to get rid of this organ so that they can redevelop the space it occupies and that a process was underway. If I went in it might just bring some unwanted attention to the case and jeopardise their aim of it's removal (though what anyone thought I was going to do I don't know. My interest was purely in discovering an unknown builder whose largest and best work survived). I was told that they (at the church) would contact me again when the process was over to tell me whether or not I could go and have a look. Make of that what you will. I will report back if and when I manage to get in! F-W

It's a Copeman-Hart and sounds just as you might imagine (best from the far side of the quad!) despite the vast bathroom-like acoustic. It was there all through my time in Oxford (2001-4) and I am told-reliably-that there was to be a "new" organ by K. Jones. Money began rolling in but someone at the college (bursar??) thought that an electronium was better value for money. As a result Professor John Caldwell resigned his Fellowship of the college! It really does deserve an organ in there. It somehow always felt like one was playing a radio though I remember hearing on the grapevine that there were plans afoot to get back to a real organ.Let's hope! F-W

I'm surprised that no one else has mentioned Percy yet. This is a monumental work (c 40 mins!) and is undoubtedly a major contribution to the (English) repertoire. It is long but there is certainly passion there and as a whole it works very well indeed-if you have the stamina required to learn/play it! The 3rd mvmt (Scherzetto?) is wonderfully: truly mercurial in nature and well worth learning in itself. The last mvmt-choral-(possibly intended to be the 3rd fantasy choral?[...Franck]) builds to a fantastic climax, full of almost tortured passion only to "wind-down" in such a controlled and "gentlemanly" fashion closing with such satisfaction there is the need for a few seconds silence following it just to let it all sink in! It gets a vote from me! F-W

I really don't know for certain: it was just part of the "folklore" which was repeated and told to me. Perhaps someone at Romsey could do some digging about the mysterios Dr Air(e)y! F-W

Yes! As far as I remember, I am sure that the trombone is a downward extension of the tuba. I must say that I never thought the organ, or any particular stops too loud and nobody I ever knew had to leave the door open: I suppose we were just used to the balances. Nachthorn mentions unblending upperwork, but the nazard is the only addition all else is original. I'm not sure where the latest additions are placed. As for the layout when I knew the instrument...it is placed in a loft on the north side of the cahncel. On the exterior wall (north side) is a newel staircase which rises from the crypt rooms to give access to the church level (under the organ in a quasi transept) and then up to the organ. Gaining access to the organ the Open Wood 16 is on ones left ranged against the back wall. One walks south through the said passage and the tuba/trombone in on the right of the passage. Emerging from the "innerds" one overlooks the chancel. The console in en fentre and the organist sits facing north with back to chancel. In this position in front and above the organist is the great organ. Behind this and more in the roof is the swell-shutters opening south-to the right of these is/was the Bourdon 16. So all this speaks directly int the chancel. On the left side of the loft is another opening facing into the north transept. The choir organ is placed here to speak into this space and into the body of the church and north aisle. So balances are not "right" at the console, but we learn to cope don't we? I seem to remember that the 2 gt diaps were rather good; not thick and heavy but rather clear. Also J. Retallack used to say something about the swell-rather dismisively..."Oh they went and put it up there so it's all in the roof" or something like that. Possibly a refernce to what Heles did in 1931. The action was all pneumatic when I knew it. The choir action was good, quick, responsive and well able to cope with quick repetitions. Unfortunately the gt and sw were not so good. It all worked but was just a little too slow to get that repetition-a little frustrating. The only unsteady wind was on the swell but otherwise all was in order. Perhaps the additions have upset the balances and wind distribution somewhat. I have very fond memories of this organ. I must go and try it again. Maybe the passing of years... F-W

Two things I forgot to mention in my above post: Apparently the organ at All Ss Falmouth was a favourite of G Ormond, organist at Truro cathedral from c1929-1971. At St John's, Pz until J Retallack retired sometime in the late 1990s there had only been 3 organists in the church's history, butthe first I have never been able to verify. Perhaps someone here might know? When the church opened in 1881 it is said that the organist was a Dr Air(e)y who wasn't around that long-perhaps a year or two and then left the area to go to Romsey Abbey. IS this true?-I don't know. He was succeeded by Mr George Sellers who was succeeded by J Retallack in 1955. Quite a record really! F-W

Try the following, Vox: http://npor.emma.cam.ac.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch...ec_index=K00023 I have played this instrument on a number of occasions - it is not bad, really. I think that the Tuba was added by Hele & Co. (as opposed to Lance Foy). However, I shall ask Lance, when I contact him to ask whether he has received our 'new' re-engraved replacement draw-stop. Ah, I'm pleased you highlighted this organ, for this Tuba was precisely the one my eye lighted on as perhaps being the most likely candidate to be a genuine Hele example. I am not sure I have the correct church in mind, but is this not the organ of which it is said that the best place to stand in order to hear it at its best is on the deck of the MV Scillonian III? I'll try and comment on both of these posts. I knew this organ very well before the Lance restoration as I played it several times a week for a good few years: St John's being on my way home from school and where I had organ lessons. It's an interesting history. As I was told, the first organ (church built in 1880/1) was a 1 man, 6 stopper by Walker (who had done other work in the town). This then was incorporated into the Heard (of Truro) organ, but I can't remember whether it had 2/3 mans then. However, Hele gave it a major overhaul in 1931 (church jubilee) and the trombone/tuba is theirs. I "think" it is/was on 9" wind and makes a glorious sound-not at all thick and cloying. The organ as I knew it had 30 stops. There were no oct. cplrs on the ch, and the Sw had a 16' bourdon and not the 4' flute. the pedal was O Wd 16, Bdn 16, Trbne 16. Apparently there was a Violoncello 8' which stood in towers at either side and in the middle, outside the loft arch. These were removed in the 1931 rebuild on the instruction, so I was told, of the churchwardens because it spoilt the view eastwards!!! A little more history: the ch Naz 2 2/3 was added in the '60s replacing a vox humana which was in its own box. This was done at the request of the then organist Mr Jack Retallack who had been a boy chorister there (along with my grandfather and his two brothers), assistant organist and then organist form 1955 until about 1998 at a guess. He had been to London and played one afternoon in an empty RAHall, liking the sound of the Naz he determined to have one at St John's! He also paid for the electro-pnue. piston action added in the '60s. At some point also the Gt dulciana was replaced or cut down to make the 12th. This was always claimed to be the best organ in Pz. The church is certainly the best ecclesiastical building and the acoustic was good. I was saddened to see that (after I had left the area) it has been carpeted from end to end! As for hearing organs from the Scillonian...this must be the organ now in St Mary's-the one with the fine granite tower, though built like a preaching box (anglo-catholic since at least the beginning of the 20th C). The old organ in there (look it up on the BIOS register) was also very fine but it was replaced following a fire in 1985 which destroyed the roof, east-eand and the organ in the west gallery. The replacement was the old Wolker form the University church of St Mary, Oxford. It jyust doesn't work-it's FAR too big. The Oxford church is large and it stood on a choir screen. At Pz it is in a much smaller building and in a W gallery so that all the sound is sent east in a not very long building. Who ever gave permission for this work?!! It astounds me. I have heard that since St Paul's church has closed a good deal of pipework from there has been transferred to St Mary's to be incorporated and replace some current stops when funds are sufficient (St Pauls had a Robson rbuilt Hele c 1933, 3man 29stops and again rather nice with a fiery, Frenchy gt trumpet 8'). As for other Hele work I know: Exeter St David's has a good 3man Hele but it has had some alterations and no tuba; Sacred Heart Exeter, anothe fine Hele with another very fiery gt Trpt and one of the best ped trombones-absolutely life-like. In Cornwall there is All Ss, Falmouth; again a little altered but a lot of original good Hele work. The aoustic in there is large and plays tricks. It is behind the ch stalls on the Sth side in a transept of this long tall building. It doesn't sound too big here at all but near the back of the church the ch clarinet sounds HUGE and so woody, also the sw diap sounds like it should be the gt no1 diap! Well I better stop now. Hope that's of some interest! F-W

What a good question. At my place where I have recently taken over as DoM I raised the question of a new hymn book with the Team Rector. Unbeknown to me this had been raised a few times in the past but no decision had ever been made by the PCC-too many options and seemingly no one book that totally satisfies! The church was, for many years, usig The English Hymnal and then moved onto AMNS(!). This book in my humble opinion is just dreadful: low set tunes, 100HfT, MoreHfT and a smattering of AMR. The church is Anglo-Catholic, has a good choir with large repertoire, solemn mass and choral evensong (with benediction) weekly and observes Saints' days etc etc. There just aren't enough of the right hymn available to us. Copying the odd one onto a service sheet is not a totally satisfactory solution. I am thinking about The New English Hymnal: It has a good selection of hymns (including office hymns), a useful liturgical section, print is good, comfortable to handle and tunes not set too low. Any views? F-W

Yes! Touch paper lit but here's another lighted taper to help! I know the RNCM's Hradetsky, having played it regularly for a couple of years some time ago. True, it has some wonderful choruses and some truly beautiful sounds but it just isn't a "do all" instrument. I always wanted to reach out for (let's call it an open diapason I for argument!!) something more as foundation on the great and just some relief on the pos. I even said as much to a teacher (no longer there)-how quickly one learns to be diplomatic!! I'm sure this relates to other threads aswell, but in my humble opinion "eclectic" organs really never satisfy fully: they can do many things rather well but nothing utterly convincingly. An organ constructed with vision and integrity, of any style, can pull off music not only which it was created to play but of many varying styles. Yea, even a good old Fr Willis plays Bach well and more besides because it is an instrument of integrity: you use the "colours" from the palette you have and be satisfied. Does lieblich gedackt 8, dulciana 8, gemshorn 4, flageolet 2 work better used honestly or a mutilated gedact 8, spitz prinzipal 4, octave 2, mixture 19, 22 (no breaks) with pipes of varying vintages and indifferent voicing? F-W.

Interesting question, which could be applied to so many organ stops. At All Saints' in Cheltenham (my place) the 1887 Hill organ was built with an enclosed tuba8' which rings out gloriously; not at all leathery and dull. Around the turn of the C19/C20 a reed was added to the great-on heavy pressure called Euphonium 8'. An article in "The ORgan" of the 1940s by H. Byard, then organist, (can't remember which-I'm at school at the moment) mentions this stop and how it too rang out. He likened it to a small Harrison tuba. There is still a heavy pressure reed on the great (on it's own chest) but named tromba8'; it is large in scale. Unfortunately it sits in the roof of the organ chamber and doesn't really make the impact that it could. Is it the euphonium renamed by Nicholsons in their rebuild of the 1950s- I don't know. F-W

Just thought as I pressed the reply button...was the tuner John Pring? F-W

Absolutely! The old Milton was great. It did look a bit odd on paper-but it worked! For accompaniment using just the sw, gt & pd in the case was ideal, all the sounds you needed at just the right level: it was truly magical. They were indeed hard times and I understand that the "insides" were-to put it lightly- a mess. I beleive also that the sw and gt depts were on the wrong sides ie the sw was on the west side and the gt on the east of the case (as it looked to the north) because it had been planned that it would return to the north side of the choir as a "front" to the grove and the massive project that never materialised and so the dept planning would have been "right" but there were objections form "Gloucester" and the project floundered (fortunately?). I'm glad to hear that some of it went to a good home. Did you save the 2 man console? that too was a delight to play on. All best F-W PS there was also, in the little room under the loft, 1/2 wooden blocks which had survived from the Willis ped Trombone (later replaced [Price?] with a Bourdon 16). Are they still around?

I didn't know that the Vox Humana came from Lancaster Gate. I was at the Abbey from 1986-9 and knew the "Milton" -as it was then- very well. At that stage the great reeds did not work and there was no tuba or VH. The "Grove" organ had indeed been pillaged and the four ranks used in the Milton were, Tuba, Voix Humaine, Harmonic Flute, Flute Octaviante. As Paul says these were returned to the Grove when it was restored in 1980. The tuba also had a new CC pipe-it having been transposed when it moved to the Milton (the Grove is almost 1/2tone sharp to modern pitch). Some work was done to the Gt reed chest and they were playable/tolerable-I can't remember who did this work. I think it was the chap who came from Bristol and looked after the cathedarl there at the time (Cawston?) and he must have been Walkers local man. I remember being told by Richard (Dick) Chorley (former asst. org. to H Stubbington and choir man) that when the Grove was restored and stops returned that Michael Peterson got hold of some second hand pipes to fill the gaps. However there was still no tuba or VH. The tuba pipes did indeed come from Christ Church, Lancaster Gate and iI remember them arriving and being laind out on the transept floor below the apse division and spending that day with the organ tuner, Dick and john Blecher hoisting them up and setting them into there place of the apse-just dehind the display pipes and in front of the solo&echo shutters. They were/are of large scale! Comments were made at the time as to how successful the tuba sounded. Some saying that it was actually better than the old Grove tuba in that place! I believe the wind was 16". But there was no VH at that time-I wonder where it came from?? One interesting point about the Grove organ (mighty beast that it is) is that on the solo organ there is a stop called Violoncello 8, and this had two ranks of pipes per note stopped wood and open metal. There is now, and has been for some time, only one metal rank and there is space where the wooden rank used to stand. What happened to it? I don't know what happened to it, but I remeber rummaging through old papers and cuttings in the muniments room as it was then (now a chapel over the sacristy) and finding some odd bits of information concerning the oprgans and/or music of the abbey which I placed in the music store (formerly the room beneath the console(s) loft. there was a leaflet with a picture of the grove organ taken from the ground looking up towards the consloe-and therefore the solo dept- and there is clearly seen the TWO ranks of pipes for the violoncello. I can't remember the date!! Possibly 1930s/40s. I hope that adds something useful. Who can solve the mystery of the missing wooden rank...?? Cameron (F-W)

I know we all love drawing up fantastical specifications of new organs "when we win the lottery", or when contemplating a-far, far off-rebuild of our day-to-day intruments adding as much as possible, mixing actions and including echo divisions away in lofty towers...or is that just me?! But even with serious thoughts of rebuild/restoration often a good many stops seem to almost place themsleves in the correct division. One that has puzzled me for some time though is the once so un/popular Vox Humana. If dealing with a 2man instrument then it really must go on the swell (and we're talking romantic voxs here not baroque/classical where they may well be on the gt/ch). On a 3 man there come some alternatives: on the swell, on the choir-being totally enclosed, or on the ch enclosed perhaps with a clarinet or just on its own. On 4 mans there seems to be less agreement. The sw is a popular destination for voxs, but they are often also on the solo, enclosed totally, with a few or on its own (eg the voix humaine enclosed alone on the solo of the Grove organ in Tewkesbury Abbey). There also seems to be no rule governing their placement by the same builder eg Father Willis places them in swells and on solos (Truro, Exeter). So what would you do? Where would you like your Vox Humana (on 2, 3 and 4 man schemes) and why? Cameron.

Afternoon all! I thought maybe it was about time I added something here by way of introduction (nothing whatever to do with being at a loose end at home after surgery!). My name is Cameron Luke and come from West Cornwall, from a village called Gulval just outside Penzance. My schooling was there and was a chorister at the village church where I first learned to play the organ-alone-accompanied to the church religiously every Saturday morning to "have a go" by a stalwart lady of the church who would deputise as organist from time to time. The church is only small, seating about 200 but beatifully restored 1892 and no expense was spared. The organ is a 3man Willis/N&B/Hele and very lovely...treasured memories of countless hours (take a look on BIOS). Penzance too had some good instruments: again take a look at BIOS. The old St Mary's was beautiful (the present a BIG mistake), St Paul's was a good clear speaking instrument though somewhat hampered from its buried position; the church is now closed and I am told that the pipework is at St Mary's awaiting some future project to swap some pipework and tame the big beast. St John's has the best instrument in the town: lovely clear diapasons, slightly quirky-but good-2rk celeste on unenclosed choir, and a ringing tuba (9" wind if memory serves) full of "clang" and no "honk"! As for me I left, and for a couple of years was assistant verger at Tewkesbury Abbey, organ lessons and sang in the choir-a great experience, all pre-Milton rebuild. then a couple of years at the RNCM, some private teaching and the a period of 5-6years as "kantor" in Norway. What a great place! A full-time job practising! Well, not quite but make of those jobs what you will. I was at Nesbyen first, where we installed the new organ by K. Tickell and then further north in Somna. Picked up the language and had a great-though exhausting time! All in the "wrong"(?) order, but THEN I went to university gainning the organ scholarship at Worcester College, Oxford. There we have two chapel choirs (men and boys/mixed) with four sung services a week. A major point in my musical life combining pressure with high standards. During this time gaining ARCO and the DipCHD (no, don't start tha RCO thing up again!!). And so to the present. I was to have completed FRCO last week, but, on Monday evening was taken into hospital with acute abdominal pain. Left for several days while the consultants needed to be sure they knew what was goin on they removed my appendix on Thursday evening and so I am now home relaxing...or something. Ah well, those keyboard tests will just have to wait until January! But on a better note, last Sunday I was offered the position of Director of Music at All Saints' Church, Cheltenham (which is where I now live) here is the Holst connection, Adolph being the first organist and Gustav having been a chorister and played occasionally also havig written some juvinalia for organ. So I look forward to getting stuck in with that in September and its small adult choir which offer TWO fully choral services every week! (I just wonder how many churches actually do this these days...? answers on a postcard please!). I hope that's an interesting enough introduction for our musical organists/organist musicians!

Interesting that anyone should mention Ashton-under-Lyne as there are two Lewis organs in the town; a four manual at Albion United Reformed Church (formerley Congregational) and the lesser known three manual (18 stops and two never inserted) at Holy Trinity Church. The latter building has been re-developed inside giving the back half of the church over as a community centre (a building within a building) and the organ still plays (I was there a couple of weeks ago!) despite having no major work done to it since about 1888 when it was moved from the north side of the chancel to the south (orig. built 1878) to get it away from the boiler house! Which instrument did you mean MM? F-W

Thanks Cynic that's-as usual-good advice. I will delve a little more closely. Your off at a tangent story is amusing. I don't suppose it was a clergyman know for his flamboyant dressing and equally so liturgies; in a very large southern diocese with a rather small (though ancient) cathedral; in a large commuter town with "fast trains" from London "every forty minutes"-as the adverts used to say...? CL

Good morning all! I've started a new topic here: following on from the wedding problems and consistency threads! Hoping (possibly) to gain a DoM position soon I am interested in knowing more about organists' contracts. What should go in them? What should not go in them? Pay/sick pay/fees/use of organ/fianl say for permission to play etc etc How many of the august members here have contracts? Are you satisfied/unsatisfied? Have you felt the need to renegotiate? I feel sure there is a tide of information about to descend on this board!! Thanks! CL.

As we now seem to have moved from the topic of the RCO moving to the actual examinations I wonder if I might throw a little something in here? Does anyone know (especially if there are any RCO examiners lurking here!) just what they (the examiners) are looking for in the improvisation part of the keyboard tests for the FRCO? I would be very glad for some suggestions!! (exam looming!) F-W

Exactly right!! This organ is obviously very much on your mind! Many thanks for the music suggestions from people, I will go and try a few and see how they work on the Crediton H&H. I think the most unfortunate point about Crediton is the unsympathetic acoustic. One enters the building sees that it is a large church but unfortunately there is very little "help". No reverb, just what I call the "after-shock" of the organ sound travelling around the building. I think it must be the stone used in construction, which has a very rough surace. Maybe the church authorities could start a programme of polishing the internal stone-work...or maybe just plastering the walls-which could, of course, be decorated...? F-W

Hello good people! I've been asked to give a recital on an organ (not saying where!) which was built by H&H in 1921-biggish- tuba, ped ophicleide...you get the idea. I thought of playing some music from the time. So does anyone know of organ music written in or around 1921 (I know about B. Harwood) or where I might be able to find out about some? F-W.

Well as a fan of Willis i can tell you of a small instrument in Breage parish church in Cornwall. Gt-88844 (22/3) 2 originally a clarinet on gt instead of 12th Sw-88884 (II) originally oboe in place of mix Pd 16-Bourdon-large 16-Quintaton-smaller stopped rank with just a bit of edge--very useful. This was a house organ in the locality, then given to Truro cathedral (making 2 Willises) then sold to the church where its oak case was cut in two and it was deposited in a north choir aisle chapel! Maybe oneday someone will take pity on it. However the sound is good nothing muddy and a nics wooden claribel on gt. Speaking of Truro...is this not the finest Willis ever built?? Sorry but it was local to me as I grew up down there! 4man and 45 stops in a cathedral-wow what a sound. Mysterious, delicate, majesterial all you could wish for and the most amazing ped ophicleide ever heard! That one gets my vote! Cameron.

I am at the moment acting organist at a church where a large 1895 Hunter organ was rebuilt in 1957 and again in 1972 when the tonal scheme of the instrument was more severly changed-for the worse! On the great is a mixture labelled 22,26,29 it does infact begin 19, 22,26. The old mixture was 17, 19, 22 and the 17 is now and independent stop, the 19 has the middle octave of pipes missing, the 22 is as before and there is the 26 on top. it makes a dreadful noise. Any suggestions as to what we should do with it? On the same topic-where should a break firat appear? Father willis' mixtures are very bright and sparkly-I'd love one like that!! CDBL.