pcnd5584
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Posts posted by pcnd5584
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We shouldn't forget that Ralph Downes was deeply influenced by the "American Classics" of G Donald Harrison, and although I forget all the details, he did want to bring Harrison over to build organs in England.
I'm fairly certain that Downside or Buckfast featured in that ambition, but of course, it never came about.
Considering the building, I always thought that the RFH organ was a good one trying to get out, and even if the hall remains very dry, it is certainly sounds better than before.
MM
Although, if one reads the collected letters of Ernest M. Skinner, Henry Willis III, G. Donald Harrison and a number of other well-known and influential figures in the organ world in the first half of the twentieth century, it becomes readily apparent that G. Donald Harrison had little reciprocal respect for the ideas of Ralph Downes. *
It was Buckfast Abbey and, whilst Donald Harrison did not come over to voice stops, Ralph Downes did indeed, in collaboration with J.W. Walker (Walter Goodey and a young Dennis Thurlow) build a most interesting instrument.
* The American Classic Organ. Charles Callahan. OHS. (1990).
http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-American-Classic-Organ-History/dp/0913499056
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Indeed.
Do you think, if Ralph Downes were with us today, whether he would take the opportunity to conduct revisions to the RFH organ? (given the caveats that current funding and support etc would all be in place?)
Personally, I have no doubts whatsoever that he would. He would take the mildly improved acoustic into account, look at the finances, look at the divisional specifications, and he would go for it. I have no doubt in my mind about this whatsoever. What he would actually do though is another matter!
Of course, with the creator still with us, the possibility of conducting changes wouldn't be so much of a problem. It's always more of a problem of dealing with the 'halo' and the 'legacy' of those who are not with us.
Probabbly.
In fact (as you are no doubt aware), he did - and with H&H in 1964). True, this was largely limited to the tonal re-balancing of all of the compound stops and most of the reeds . However, it did include a couple of new pipes (and consequent re-scaling) to two Pedal foundation ranks (the 32ft. Principal* and the Major Bass † - neither of which had ever spoken properly in the dry acoustic).
In addition, the 32ft. reed was revoiced - with new shallots and tongues (from Bertounèche, the firm which had supplied Cavaillé-Coll), which were unobtainable at the time of the original installation of the instrument. *
* E, in the 32ft. octave.
† C, in the 16ft. octave.
* p. 184; The Harrison Story. Laurence Elvin. Elvin, Lincoln: 1974 and 1977.
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A further suggestion:
Do not leave pencils on the sides of a console (or a piano) with the sharpened ends pointing towards you.
Making a swift upwards movement with one's hand, only to discover that a pencil is now partially embedded in the webbing part between thumb and fore-finger, and that blood is spurting out all over the floor is, let me assure you, most disconcerting.
Even more so is the complete inability to swear, kick something, or shout loudly and incomprehensibly - simply because sitting beside the instrument there is a pupil looking at the blood with undisguised fascination, who says innocently 'Oooh, sir - have you hurt yourself?
(Yes, I %#ï¿©§$ing have.)
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Let's call it sophomoric high spirits. But it was definitely Guildford in the summer of 1979 and the preacher thought it was the last trump. If it actually happened.
Reply by PM - in order to avoid causing offence to a colleague.
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Why should he take legal counsel before making his disclosure? He came onto the platform with a BBC mike and a sheet of paper from which he read his prepared announcement. In it, he said that he and his wife were "not allowed" by the publisher to play the four-hands piano version on the organ "because of unproven violation of [the] intellectual and moral interest of the composer." I was fortunate to hear them play The Rite in Haarlem in July 2012. If the premise were continued, should the accompanists amongst us be forbidden from playing Elgar's The Spirit of the Lord; Vaughan WIlliams' Rise, heart; Let all the world etc. on the organ? Was Philip Scriven (with Martin Baker) prevented from playing The Rite at Westminster Cathedral in July last year? ...
Absolutely.
It sounds a most odd stipulation.
It reminds me of my copy of A. Herbert Brewer's Marche Heroïque, on which is a small note admonishing me that 'The Public Performance of any parodied version of this composition is strictly prohibited.' (Not that I should wish to - I actually quite like the piece and regard it as a good example of its genre.)
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I completely agree with this.
When the organ was restored at St Albans Cathedral in 2009 (another Ralph Downes instrument), several adjustments were made to the choruses on the Great and Swell divisions, which have not undermined the integrity and vision of the original design of the instrument at all. ...
In fact, this is at least the second time that alterations have been made to the chorus-work of this instrument - the first being with the collusion of Downes himself.
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... And, returning to the subject of ‘the acoustic’, Downes must have been distraught when he first became aware of how poor it was going to be/was. Although this has been improved, with the advances in the understanding and application of acoustical design and adjustable acoustics, let’s hope the next rebuild (of the Hall) will get it right.He was.
Apparently, an early test in the hall (which had no seating at that time), involving a student orchestra from the Guildhall School of Music, was ...'dire. Tympani sounded like biscuit-tins.'
Apparently he remembered thinking something to the effect of 'Thank God the organ was not on trial that day.'
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... Yes, some of the time it is simply to place the hands in a more convenient playing position - why not? What's wrong with convenience?Paul Walton
(Assistant, Bristol Cathedral)
Absolutely - and, why not? (to mis-quote Barry Norman - apparently).
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I think that if you already have sub- and super- octave couplers the provision of a Unison Off is relatively trivial and in my opinion affords more possibilities than have been outlined above. For example there is neither a 16' flue nor a 2' flute on the Swell where I play regularly and an interesting combination can be made of 8' and 4' flutes with sub- super- *and* unison off giving 16' + 4' from the 8' and 8' and 2' from the 4' so 16', 8', 4', 2' with little chance of note-stealing and an effect that can't be produced simply by a different playing position.
I would vote *against* the situation described by PCND above where the Unison Off coupler only engages when the sub- or super- couplers are drawn. Not only does it preclude its use as a ventil but also causes acute embarrassment when the Solo Tuba and Unison Off are drawn and a note is played during the sermon at Sunday Evensong which *might* have happened in my presence at Guildford Cathedral some 35 years ago.
This has happened on occasion. Sometimes lightning does strike twice (in the same place).
On the other hand - why would one actually do that during a sermon anyway? It is almost asking for trouble.
In the case of the Guildford organ, this must have been rather more recent than thirty-five years ago - the Unison Off couplers on this organ have only been re-wired as I described above in the last ten years. Prior to this, whilst inadvisable, such a move would have been relatively safe.
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I'm hesitant to say too much before I get my first 'live' upfront experience of all 103 stops when I prepare to play in the RFH in July. The tender spec of late 1948 specified a set of enclosed Gt reeds and a Solo division that was - to all intents and purposes - a 'super' Cavaille-Coll Recit of the 1840/50 (Flutes 8 4, strings 8, reeds 16,8 plus two heavy pressure reeds - named Tuba probably to keep people quiet - all enclosed). (Baroque Tricks 1983 ed pp 93-5). By mid 1949 the Tubas had become Trompette/Clairon Harmonique respectively with the (now unenclosed Gt Reeds & Cornet) transferable to the Solo. At no stage did Downes contemplate an HH solo of families of Strings. Harm Flues & Orch reeds. (The first sketch included a complete 16' Cornet from 16' - 3 1/5' plus septieme 2 2/7').
Downes admits (p 133) that he DID worry about whether the organ would be powerful enough and so in late 1950(?) transformed the Solo into a 5th Principal chorus to 'support massed singing' - thereby 'clinching the organ's success in practice'. This reflected the fact that all the soundboards had already been made and there was neither time nor material to do anything else. He also acknowledges (p177) that he panicked and the organ was too loud at first - all flue pressures were reduced by 1/8" or so shortly after the 'launch'. .
To my (possibly heretical) ears Downes ended up pretty near to what CC night have done in rebuilding a Cliquot or similar, preserving the classical choruses and adding symphonic voices (as in St Sulpice and elsewhere) BUT designed for a concert hall (cf the Salle des Fetes at Trocadero). There are all the classical choruses/contrasts and yet a grand symphonic whole (provided you know what to leave out of particular combinations). For the English repertoire there a perfectly good Open Wood on the Pedal, a luscious Harmonic Flute and a 'Claribel' on one of the manuals if you use your ears in exploring and not rely on eyes ticking off a list of stop names. There are even some quite good strings ...albeit with a clear recognition that dimenuendi 'a niente' effects are completely pointless in that room.
I'll post my experience of the whole thing when I've been lucky enough to spend a few hours exploring later this year.
mgp
This is largely the reason - although Downes was reacting to a specific protest which had suggested that the RFH organ as planned would not be able to produce sufficient tone (and 'body', as it was then expected and understood), in order to bolster an orchestra during (for example) the Enigma Variations. At that time, much of the organ was already in the process of construction - including the main soundboards. The only soundboards which had yet to be market up, cut and constructed were those of the proposed Solo Organ. Therefore, in order to avoid considerable further delay (and consequent increase in cost), the only viable route was to scrap the (vaguely) Romantic Solo Organ and substitute yet another principal chorus.
Downes went on to state that this had proved to be entirely successful in practice, expressing surprise at Cecil Clutton who stated that he felt five complete clavier choruses to be ' "wasteful in a concert instrument", whereas I [Downes], as a professional concert organist, know very well how this final modification clinched the organ's success in practice.' *
However, it could also be said that intelligent design of the other departments should have precluded the 'need' for yet another chorus - particularly at the expense of any Romantic voices whatsoever. (The Swell 'strings' are nothing of the sort, for example.) Whilst it must be borne in mind that the RFH organ was highly experimental - and not intended to be a progenitor of any 'organ movement', as such, there are nevertheless a number of flaws in the design, scaling and voicing of the organ - partly the fault of Hope-Bagenall, the acoustcian, it must be admitted.
* p. 133, Baroque Tricks: Positif Press, Oxford. 1983.
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Unison Off is to be used when one desires the ultimate pianissimo effect
.Many instruments are wired-up so that this stop does nothing unless either the Sub Octave or Octave coupler is also drawn.
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Announcement at Worcester Cathedral regarding an appointment for Sub Assistant Organist in succession to James Luxton who has been appointed Assistant Director of Music at Liverpool Metropolitan Cathedral.
Although at less than £11,000 for an average of twenty-seven hours each week, it would leave little time to teach*, in order to gain a living wage. Even with accommodation provided, this seems to be a rather long working week for a 'number three' post, in view of the level of remuneration.
* Whilst, according to the time-table of daily rehearsals, there appears to be the greater proportion of each day free; in reality, on reading the details of what is required (for example administrative work, attending meetings, assisting 'with the smooth running of the department'), the successful candidate could easily find that the day is largely taken up with cathedral duties.
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I've recently been delving more into the rather neglected and underplayed organ works of this gentleman, since hearing his Hymne aux Memoires Heroiques at a recital earlier this year.
Much of his oeuvre appears to still be in print, except the particular piece I'm looking for - Diptyque Liturgique, originally published by H.W.Gray. Even the RCO library doesn't have a copy of it, and after much searching via Google, I've hit point blank.
Would anyone know where this work might be available from?
Best regards to all for the New Year.
VA
Recordings show that he was also a superb improvisor. In fact, I should far rather listen to him than Dupré, who, whilst possessed of a fabulous technique and intellect always sounded rather dull and dry.
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I attended the Organ Gala Launch Concert, and am listening to it again on BBC iPlayer with the Festival brochure in front of me. I think some perspective is needed when viewing the concert. It is the opening event of a three-month festival celebrating the return of the RFH organ, so surely it can be integrated into one evening of music-making with singers and other instruments?
On the other hand, it has been possible to hear any number of concerts involving other instruments (than the organ) and choirs, over the last several years, whilst this iconic instrument languished in storage.
I should have preferred the opening concert to have featured the organ - solely. Surely this famous instrument needs no help from the brass section of an orchestra? I confess that I find this type of programme planning puzzling in the extreme. Why do those who plan these events appear to think that either the organ needs 'help' - or that concert-goers will be less likely to attend if there are no other instruments taking part? *
Whilst I am pleased to learn of the forthcoming series of organ concerts, I wonder if there is any possibility of re-instating the former Wednesdays at 5.55 series. I realise that many peoples' work habits and working hours have changed over the last twenty years; but it would beb good to see some kind of regular (and permanent) recital series re-established at the RFH.
* As far as I can recall, the short recital series which was held prior to the dismantling of the RFH organ was well-attended.
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In effect, it's not rare that some French organists are in the same time titular somewhere and co-titular elsewhere.
Examples:
Vincent Warnier: co-titulaire at Saint Etienne-du-Mont (together with Thierry Escaich) and titular at cathedral Notre Dame de Verdun
Gabriel Margheri: co-titular at Sacré coeur de Montmartre (together with Philippe Brandeis) and titular at sanctuaire saint Bonaventure in Lyon
Sophie-Véronique Cochefer-Choplin: deputy-titular at saint Sulpice and titular at Saint Jean Baptiste de la Sale (Paris 15ème).
The reason is that being titular is often not a sufficient charge and leaves enough time to run an other position.
Is it also still correct that there are only two posts which attract a reasonable (full-time?) salary in Paris - that of Titulaire de l'Orgue-du-chœur, Nôtre-Dame (Cathédrale) and Organiste Titulaire des grandes orgues, Nôtre-Dame d'Auteuil?
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Thomas Trotter is both Organist of St Margarets Westminster and Birmingham City Organist - not quite the same but a long distance between the two places of employment. And his predecessor George Thalben-Ball was also Birmingham City Organist and organist curator of the Royal Albert Hall, whilst his Sunday job was organist of the Temple Church in London. Any advance on that?
Well, yes - but there are no regular Sunday services in Birmingham Town Hall. The case cited above is somewhat different.
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Precisely my thoughts, too. Make a date in your diary for 12 months hence to see if he's moved on again.
I doubt it - see firstrees' succinct post above.
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Thanks for that – my non-builder imagination keeps grinding, though. Is this about finding an equilibrium with a trunk admitting enough wind at a sufficient pressure, or is it about the trunk being too narrow in some instances? What’s the difference between a rectangular and a circular cross-section?
Thanks in advance,
Friedrich
As far as I know, I believe that rectangular cross-section is preferable for most situations. It avoids causing a vortex at junctions.
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I've just started learning Bonnet's Concert Variations. It has an impressive toccata at the end and a fearsome-looking pedal cadenza passage complete with four-part chords with the feet immediately before, which I always assumed having once seen it in concert, as unplayable. It isn't - there are two tricks that make it considerably easier.
(i) play in socks
(ii) if that's too radical, Bonnet wrote an alternative version that's only a couple of bars long.
It is quite possible (and I should have thought considerably less painful) to play the full cadenza wearing conventional shoes - of course, with a slight heel. I am not convinced that playing this in socks would work. If the piece were taken at a good speed, it would be quite difficult to play cleanly. In addition articulation would also be awkward - and extremely uncomfortable.
I have occasionally inherited pupils who initially insisted that they could play better (generally) in socks. I made then try suitable shoes and on each case the pupil concerned became converted to playing in shoes. I must admit that I have never been convinced by shoeless organ playing.
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Not sure if this has been shown already, but what do you do if you can't decide whether to invest in a pipe organ or in two concert grand pianos? The answer of course is to get the two pianos, mount them on top of each other and clip a pedalboard to the lower one! Bach's Passacaglia as yoj've never heard it before....
I am sure that this is very clever - but what is the point? It still sounds infinitely better on an organ (at least one of reasonable quality and design). This appears to be one of the most cumbersome performance methods which I have ever seen.
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YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loeBBzIaOFA
Console from 4:01 to 4:11. I’m sure someone here can identify the peculiar style of the console.
Console and pedal pipes with apparent totally enclosed case from 7:32 to 7:36.
A gorgeous edifice (the building).
It looks like a former draw-stop console which has been altered to incorporate the type of stop tabs which were used by Osmonds and rocking tablets of the kind favoured by the makers of some cheap electronic substitutes.To be honest, if this is the case, I am not sure why anyone should wish to do this. As you say, it is very ugly. Mounting stop tabs on vertical, concave jambs seems pointless to me. I cannot imagine that it offers any improvement in the way of convenience to the player.
However, the case, jamb panels, keys, pistons and key frames (and also the pedal-board and the pedal 'sweep') look to be of good quality workmanship, if the photographs are reasonably true to life.
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Oh yes. Another vote for this CD. Very fine performances and bags of "phooar" for your money.
Well, yes - but for sheer entertainment value, the old recording from Nôtre-Dame, with Jehan Revert (I believe) and Pierre Cochereau is worth the money. I have no idea whether Cochereau was drunk or simply bored; however, he starts of on the full organ - and works up from there. There are several moments when he drowns the choir (it must be admitted that this is not necessarily a negative point) and there are also a few occasions when the distance between the choir and the organ, and the inherent time-lag appear to defeat even Cochereau.
However, I would certainly agree with Philip - the Vierne Messe Solennelle is well-worth it. After all, one does not have to perform every movement each time.
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... We have the Howells Dorian. I think the choir might have sung it once before my time, but the copies look rather pristine. I wasn't greatly taken with it when I looked through it, although I'm a tremendous Howells fan generally. Would you rate it highly? If so, I'll take a closer look at it.To be honest - not greatly; however, it is at least another idea.
Presumably you do the Vierne Messe Solennelle? There is , in addition, the Dvořák Mass, in D major; and even the Gounod Deuxième Messe pour les Sociétés Chorales - although in the case of the latter, you might want to wash your hands afterwards. Do you sing the short Mass setting in F, by C.S. Lang?
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Correct, the Odeon West End, from 1930 to 1988 known as Leicester Square Theatre, is a two-screen cinema on the south side of Leicester Square, London used for the BFI London Film Festival and occasional premiers. The Odean Leicester Square is the famous one with the Compton and the tall black monolith outside. It is proposed that the new hotel which will replace it will house a smaller two screen cinema in the basement apparently.
Ah - I see. Thank you for this.
I did once go to see a film at the Odeon, Leicester Square (the one which is not being demolished). I am embarrassed to admit that it was Tootsie, featuring Dustin Hoffman. (In my defence, my girlfriend wished to see it; this was not my choice.)
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RFH Organ
in The Organ
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I also have a copy of this recording - and another by some American organist (Dr. Lenough Anderson, I believe) who, amongst other works recorded the slowest version of the 'little' E minor Prelude and Fugue, by Bach (BWV 533) which I ever hope to hear - Vierne included. I much prefer this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1NF6X9SVTw. The organ at Weingarten is stunning - and so is the acoustic ambiance.
In fact, Rochesson voiced rather more than just the Pedal reeds.* I have a list somewhere, which I shall try to locate tomorrow. For the record, there is some documentary evidence (including old back-issues of The Organ, dating well before 1950), which suggest that Rochesson was not exactly highly regarded as a voicer by his peers in France.
* I believe that it was even intended to include the proposed Solo strings - that is, before they were consigned to history.