pcnd5584

Good grief - I never expected the grand organ of Nôtre-Dame to sound like an electronic; even allowing for the recording quality, this is a foul noise.

... Were they in C?

Yes - the same thought occurred to me. I have noticed that it can also vary with the same person from one day to another. Both my former colleague and I have sight-read pieces as voluntaries* that were probably a little too difficult to do so under normal circumstances. However, in each case the performances were successful, with very few wrong notes. As it happened, we both returned to the pieces concerned the next time we practised - only to discover that the 'magic' - or perhaps the adrenalin - was not there; for both of us, it sounded as if someone had let a panda loose on the organ.... * I do not do this habitually. My excuse on that occasion, was a very busy couple of weeks, with - quite literally - no time to practise (other than late at night, after a fourteen-hour day, with another following a few hours later).

Thank you, flûte harmonique. Again, this is interesting.

I am glad that you have written this, David. I, too, was brought up on this edition. I also understood it to be as accurate as some editions - and more so than one or two. I still play all my Bach repertoire from these editions - although it has to be said that my copy of Book Eight in particular, closely resembles the state of the original manuscript. If I wish to play the G minor Fugue (BWV 542), then I have to play the last page or so largely from memory, since the tattered remnants are barely decipherable.

I would agree regarding the Prelude and Fugue, in G major (BWV 541). The Fantasia and Fugue, in G minor (BWV 542) - at least, as far as the Fugue is concerned - is somewhat more demanding. As Martin Cooke has already mentioned, the 'Dorian' Toccata and Fugue (BWV 538) is well worth a look. Personally, I find the Fugue to be one of the most satisfying and rewarding pieces ever written by Bach. In addition, the 'other' G major Prelude and Fugue (BWV 550) is good - particularly the Prelude. The Fugue has a slightly unusual subject, which in places, can be a little awkward to bring off comfortably. Then there are the two larger works: the Prelude and Fugue, in D major (BWV 532) - the Fugue does not have to be played presto.... and the Toccata and Fugue, in F major (BWV 540). Not forgetting two occasionally overlooked works: the Prelude and Fugue, in A major (BWV 536) and the Fantasia and Fugue, in C minor (BWV 537). The latter two pieces are probably the easiest to learn in this list, with just a few awkward corners to negotiate, with the G minor (BWV 542) and the D major (BWV 532) perhaps the most difficult.

This is true - presumably the second-hand Lewis Diapason chorus was removed at the time of the 1972-77 rebuild.

indeed. I am not sure about the latter (I am sorry, but I cannot bring myself to type his name). However, this organ also suited the compositions and superb improvisations of another recent titulaire - Jean-Jacques Grünenwald.* I have but one CD of his improvisations and I must admit that I find them stunning. They are superbly constructed, imaginative and with a keen ear for detail. In fact, I should go as far as to say that I rather prefer them to those of Dupré which I have heard. Although technically brilliant, they could often sound rather academic and lacking in spontaneity (something which Vierne also questioned on at least one occasion). * Successor to Marcel Dupré. In addition, Mme. Françoise Renet (1924 - 1995), acted as titulaire after the deaths of both Dupré and Grünenwald, prior to the appointment of Daniel Roth.

Nor me. Thank you for this, Tempo Primo. I also possess a DVD of Jos van der Kooy playing the instrument in the Westerkerk, Amsterdam. (Roelof Barentsz and Johannes Duyschot, 1686: A Bovenwerk was added by Christian Vater, in 1727 and the instrument was restored and largely reconstructed between 1989 - 1992, by Flentrop Orgelbouw.) The playing and the sound of the instrument are just as enjoyable as that of your clip above.

Well, yes - but surely this would have been only in case of an electrical or mechanical breakdown of some kind. It would be difficult - if not impossible - actually to tune pipes during the service. With regard to the spotlights: as mentioned, I only saw a short part of the repeated service. Whilst I did notice two banks of spotlights in the North and South West Quarter Dome recesses, I forgot to look to see if any were placed in the North and South East Quarter Dome sections. If so, then these would surely have caused some concern for the organ builders - since there is much pipe-work in both quarters. Did anyone notice if this was the case?

Due to a very busy day, I had forgotten when the service was scheduled to take place. However, I did catch part of the (edited) repeat on BBC2, somewhere around 19h46. I though that the organ sounded superb - even in a hymn. It would be interesting to know how many microphones (and of what type) were used specifically to record the organ. (Presumably, there would also have been one or two microphones employed in order to give an acoustic 'context' - if that is the correct term.)

I would be interested to learn his reasoning. I have always regarded the H&H organ of Coventry Cathedral as being as near to perfection as is possible on this earth. (That is, before the unfortunate revoicing of the Solo Orchestral Trumpet and Orchestral Clarion). I find this organ one of the most beautiful and inspiring instruments which I have ever played. Also off-topic: as far as I know, Frédéric Blanc (former suppléant at S. Sernin, Toulouse) and Yves Castagnet (titulaire, orgue-de-chœur, Nôtre-Dame) are the only organists in Paris to hold full-time appointments - and, presumably, salaries. † I can understand Latry's perceived casual (or nonchalant) approach. The thrill appears, from your description, to stem from the effect of the tutti. This is, of course, largely due to the fact that all the essential ingredients are present - as at the cathedrals of Hereford, Lincoln and Salisbury. Whist it is true that each of these instruments has its own individual voice (and can almost certainly be identified from recordings), this is really down to the presence of the G.O. and Swell chorus reeds (with, naturally, the G.O. foundations and upper-work), the Pedal 32ft. flue, and 16ft. Open Diapason, together with the Ophicleide. All of these elements are present at Truro; it is in the variety of quieter ranks and the lack of a second enclosed department that Truro falls short. It is difficult to split your post cleanly; nevertheless I shall try to address each point in turn. The problems of balance you mention are not peculiar to Truro, of course. Winchester is another case in point. Despite the addition of the Nave Organ, this instrument, whilst being able to swamp the largest of choirs in the stalls, can sound distant and inadequate in this long Nave. I must admit that I regard the organ of Truro Cathedral (as did DJB) as one of the few cathedral organs which does not need a 32ft. reed. There was the possibility of one at the time of the 1991 restoration, and he turned it down. There are far more pressing problems: the 32ft. flue is one of the worst I have ever heard. Several notes are virtually inaudible (anywhere), whilst some (low A, for example), booms terrifically.* The G.O. and Swell 16ft. flues would be of considerably greater value if made independently available on the Pedal Organ. The Ophicleide is only useable with the full organ. The Choir Organ is very quiet and, whilst this may provide a few additional accompanimental registers, it is of little use for any serious repertoire. The G.O., at only twelve stops, has but one reasonably quiet 8ft. flue. In addition, the Mixture, aside from containing a third-sounding rank, breaks (all ranks together, as far as I can recall) on F#31 - as does the identical stop on the Swell. The Swell Organ lacks a 4ft. Flute - frequently omitted by FHW in quite large schemes, it must be said. (In fact, Arthur Harrison often did the same thing,) This is a very useful rank for choral accompaniment. There is no enclosed 4ft. Flute anywhere on this instrument. The Solo Organ is not enclosed, which is particularly limiting for the two orchestral reeds. One further point (which is purely a matter of personal preference): the Swell Vox Angelica beats rather too quickly with the Echo Gamba. The result is neither restful nor ethereal - just odd. The myriad colours. Naturally, if one knows a particular instrument well and is prepared to experiment, certainly it is possible to achieve a wide range of tone-colours. However, it is difficult to deny that there is a basic similarity in many of the flutes (FHW almost always provided just three types: Gedeckts, Claribels and Harmonic Flutes). In addition, as had been mentioned, the lack of a second expressive division is a handicap. For example, changing from the Solo Clarinet to the Choir Corno di Bassetto, to give the impression of a diminuendo in a solo line is inconvenient - particularly since one has to 'jump' over two other claviers - and lacking in subtlety at best. It also ties up two claviers on this relatively small instrument for one effect. With regard to the voicing of the instrument in the as-then-unfinished cathedral: this was quite probably more luck than design. At that time, rather less was known about acoustics and the scientific application of pipe scales. It is probable that FHW simply used standard scales (based on some empirical knowledge). These can often be seen in the 'shop' books as 'Lieblich Gedeckt, Scale No. 6', or similar. At its inauguration, I am fairly certain that the organ (if the tutti was employed at any stage) would have been too loud. With regard to the former organ in the old cathedral at Coventry and that at Truro being near-identical twins: for that matter, the former instrument at Saint Alban the Martyr, Holborn, also possessed a very similar stop-list. The chief differences were: a Sub Bourdon and a three-rank Mixture on the Pedal Organ, a Lieblich Bourdon 16ft. on the Swell Organ (instead of a Geigen Principal) and an enclosed Solo Organ. (The only other divergences were one or two minor differences in nomenclature.) As far as the Tuba is concerned, my feeling is that it should not have been moved. FHW was quite capable of providing a really big Tuba, if the situation warranted such a rank (c.f.: Salisbury Cathedral, Solo Organ and Saint Paul's Cathedral, Chancel Tubas). However, Truro Cathedral is considerably smaller even than Salisbury Cathedral. FHW certainly expressed his dislike for 'big, blurty' 32ft. reeds; I suggest that it is not beyond the realm of possibility that he had a similar distaste for a solo reed which was out of scale to its surroundings. In any case, it is a tangible alteration to the overall sound of the instrument. Surely it should have been kept strictly as FHW left it. † This may answer a question I have been pondering for a few years, now. I had wondered how anyone of Frédéric Blanc's ability could bear to give up even the post of suppléant, at the Basilica of S. Sernin, Toulouse - with that fabulous instrument. Presumably if one inherits such an apartment with that type of historical connection - together with Duruflé's organ, there is only one option. * In a negative sense.

Of course you are correct. I have no idea why I typed Mutin.

. No - but I intended this to read that [in this case] there would be alterations to the pipe-work; this was to highlight the type of thing which has happened far too often. In the case of S. Sernin, in fact this organ had a number of alterations carried out during the previous century* - at the hand of Maurice Puget. There were, for the most part, reversed in the most recent restoration. With regard to Truro, it is true that the committee which considered the work to be undertaken in 1963, wished to keep this instrument tonally untouched (save for the fact that the G.O. 8ft. Tromba was made a touch less powerful many years ago). I am aware that many regard this organ as 'perfect'. Certainly, as the only existing un-altered example of a cathedral organ by FHW, it should remain so. Having played it on several occasions for both service and recital work, I would suggest that it is anything but perfect. However, that does not prevent me from respecting the work of its creator. Neither would I change anything, despite its many imperfections and inconveniences - other than the re-instatement of the Solo Tuba in its former position. Granted. But this has not stopped Pincemaille respecting the nature of the instrument over which he presides - and preserving it. No doubt, at other consoles, he is indeed capable of even greater achievements. * I note your use of the word 'practically'.

Thank you for your post, flûte harmonique.

This looks to be a good programme - if that is the correct word. I hope that the congregation will sit quietly and listen. How sensible of the BBC to give viewers the option of turning off the commentary. Now we shall not have to endure the commentator talking over the [organ] music - often with irrelevant or unnecessary thoughts. At least the Dimbleby brothers knew when not to speak.

Not at all, handsoff; the responsibility lies largely with the copywriter. Without a copy of the CD booklet, it would be difficult to separate the truth from the rhetoric - and the inaccuracies.

I have a copy of this - the recording was made in 1994. Reading through the booklet it is soon apparent that Pincemaille said nothing of the kind. The text is too long to quote verbatim. However, whilst he does point out that the instrument (as a prototype) lacks the tonal and mechanical refinements of later instruments by Cavaillé-Coll, nevertheless, it has justified its existence by its historical importance (as a physical 'document'), its musicality and its technical innovations at the time of its creation. There is a sense of both pride and awe at the audaciousness of the whole project; this was a phenomenal achievement for this young, relatively un-tried builder. Pincemaille goes on to list a number of features of the instrument which not only made (and still make) it demanding to play but also contributed to the periods in which it was silent, awaiting remedial action. However, what is clearly discernible in the body of the text is an understandable pride - in holding the post of titulaire here, and in the instrument itself, notwithstanding its eccentricities and mechanical infelicities. In fact, the organ at S. Denis was restored (the work was completed in 1987), by Gonzales & Co., with the sub-contract for the voicing and tuning of the pipe-work being awarded to Boisseau & Co.. In any case, since this organ had been accorded the status of [a] Monument Historique in November 1948, a radical restoration was unlikely ever to take place. This illustrates clearly the danger of conjecture and mis-reading when writing copy for advertisements, simply to try to boost CD sales. With regard to the comment regarding the 'poor state' of tuning during the recording: had the person responsible for this particular piece of 'copy' taken the trouble to read the CD booklet more carefully, they would have realized that at the time of the restoration, Robert Boisseau claimed to have discovered indications that it was originally tuned in some form of in unequal temperament.* Therefore, the organ could have sounded 'out of tune' to a reviewer simply listening to the CD. *This was refuted by Pincemaille - on the grounds that there is no known evidence that Cavaillé-Coll ever favoured the use of such a temperament and subsequently, the tuning was returned to equal temperament.

With this I should have to disagree strongly. Surely the instrument is far more important than any one person - however good they are. There are many instruments in this country* which have been altered (in some cases irretrievably). in order to satisfy the wishes of the serving musicians of that time.† What would happen if, in ten years' time, an extremely gifted organist who is currently receiving training at (for example) the Paris Conservatoire, is appointed titulaire at Nôtre-Dame - and wishes to 'rebuild' the instrument as a neo-Baroque organ, with entirely mechanical action? (As an integral part of his plans, this would of course necessitate the removal of much of the existing pipe-work.) Would this too be acceptable, on the grounds that the new titulaire has got what he wanted - and can now show off his talent in an even more spectacular manner? Pierre Pincemaille, the present titulaire at the Basilica of S. Denis, is a phenomenally gifted player. His improvisations are at least as good as those of the musicians currently appointed to Nôtre-Dame. As it happens, he has chosen jealously to preserve the superb instrument at S. Denis. The incredibly unwieldy console, in its cramped situation has done nothing to stifle either his creativity or his sublime talent. One only has to listen to recordings of his improvisations - and repertoire - (or, for that matter, watch DVDs from the box set recently issued by Fugue State Films, detailing the history and evolution of instruments by Aristide Cavaillé-Coll) to realise that he is second to none in this respect. How strange it is that he is able to create superb improvisations, which lack nothing in technical dexterity, construction or sheer musicality, on this uncouth, cumbersome instrument - yet, a few miles away, apparently it has been thought necessary to rebuild another instrument, arguably of equal historic and artistic importance, yet again, with another new console and a plethora of electronic devices. * i.e.: England. † In fact, I can think of one instance in the U.K. of an organist who, during his long tenure, had 'his' cathedral organ rebuilt twice; once, around 1971 and the second time in the mid 1990s - at which point, many of the earlier tonal alterations of the previous rebuild were reversed. Which also serves to illustrate how the personal tastes, historical perspective awareness and other related issues of a particular performer can change - in some cases, radically.

Which serves to illustrate why flûte harmonique wrote earlier: 'In the UK you use to preserve old cars, old steam engines, you are also successful in protecting your countryside and your beautiful landscapes better than in France. This kind of turnover is perhaps what we call "modernité" which in much cases is an other definition of "ugliness"! An other view of the "wonderful" console:' [see post #49.] Perhaps France needs some form of regulatory body for the preservation of organs of historic importance, or something along those lines. However, we are beginning to go round in circles here, regarding the recent work carried out on this instrument. It may be as well simply to acknowledge that opinions are somewhat polarised on this matter....

I would question whether this new console does indeed look appropriate in its setting. In any case, it is both the almost white wood and the Art Deco-esque features which combine to make it look incongruous. I would suggest that a console which could be said to draw inspiration from the Art Deco period is out of place in the tribune of Nôtre-Dame. Certainly against the beautiful (and darker wood of the) Louis XV-style case of 1733, it looks even worse. However, the overall question is still - was it really necessary?

There are times when it would be handy to own a large pair of shears.... The comments regarding the main organ are interesting - although I attended an Evensong there in the mid-1990s and thought that the organ was far too loud at several points during the service. It certainly swamped the choir on several occasions. I cannot help but think that this organ, at least with regard to choral accompaniment, functions as a large two-clavier instrument. As useful as it may be for certain repertoire, I doubt that the Choir Organ is much use, other than the two 8ft, flues. I understand that the triforium was somewhat cramped (and therefore maintenance access restricted), but surely there was plenty of other space available - the North Quire Triforium, for a start. Or, with the provision of two new cases, the G.O. flue-work could have been placed on two soundboards and divided between the cases. To lose the former Choir and Solo organs, with their wealth of accompanimental registers, seems to me to be incredible.

Thank you for this, Alastair,

Recently, I discovered one or two photographs of the installation of a Nave Organ in this building - and a tantalising glimpse of some new panelling behind the choir stalls, which encloses a (new) Choir Organ. However, I have been unable to find any further details - such as the new disposition of the departments and the new stop-list. Does anyone have any details or information to add to this, please? The link above is no longer active. Any information will be received gratefully. Thank you. Here follows a link to the information which I have been able to locate: http://www.cathedral...an_restoration/ However, there is no stop-list, as far as I can see. In addition, it appears not to have been updated since May, last year.

I note that the post of Director of Music at Shrewsbury Abbey is advertised - again. Am I correct in thinking that a contributor to this forum (Contrabombarde) is currently the Organist at the abbey (as opposed to Director of Music) ? I wonder if anyone has any further information about this appointment, including who has left and where they are going - if it is possible to give this information at present, please. Thank you.