pcnd5584

True - but I still found it nasty at the console. Bear in mind that the Cantoris stalls are just a few feet in front of the case.... I still see little point in having GO reeds that swamp not only a choir, but most of the rest of the instrument!

Several points: I found it to be an excellent instrument to accompany choral services - I did not have to resort to complicated registrations, in order to find suitable sounds. It fits the building well, in my view - it carries down the nave better than Salisbury, or Winchester, for example. It has a wealth of quiet effects. Whilst there is not a traditional Solo Organ, I did not find the present disposition of the speaking stops remotely inconvenient. It has three full-length 32p stops. Whilst the Tickell scheme appears to be using the flues, it is probable that they will be moved (together witl Scott's huge case) from the South Transept to the North Transept. God alone knows why this should be considered advantageous. I found it to be a superb instrument for the playing of French and English Romantic music - and improvisations in several different styles. There is a great variety in the reed stops - all of which I found greatly preferable to opaque Trombi, or thin trumpets. There is a good chorus on the GO for the leading of the congregation in the singing of hymns. Each division (including the Pedal Organ) contain a chorus, complete to quint mixtures. With careful (but not fussy) selection, Bach can be played convincingly. I did not find that the organ was short of wind - I used the tutti several times (not whilst accompanying....) and I was unable to find any form of malfunction or wind shortage. It has two useful solo reeds on the fourth clavier - together with a bold diapason chorus. Ideal for leading large congregations, no doubt. It has excellent Pedal foundation ranks, yet with a fairly well-developed chorus. It has a number of contrasting flutes of pleasing and useful timbre; as opposed to a plethora of Stopped Diapasons, or chiffing Rohr Flutes. Personally, I would not care if I never again encountered a wretched un-nicked chiffing Chimney Flute. The console is exceedingly comfortable. Full organ is one of the most thrilling sounds which I have ever experienced. There are several other points - but at 01h14 I suppose that I had best get some sleep soon....

I heartily endorse your sentiments, Paul! One of my favourite stops is our GO Gamba - so much colour and versatility! Why not keep the Worcester Quire and South Transept organ and add one new organ near the west end, for Three Choirs' and other special occasions?

Well, I think that if you read back through the pages of this thread, you will find that there are some who share my viewpoint! Well, I hope that you are right - but I do think that it is bad stewardship of the cathedral's resources not actively to attempt to save the existing instrument. However, we could go around like this all night....

Desiring the best musical resources is an admirable sentiment - but not necessarily when one simply rejects perfectly good, restorable material for no apparently good reason. Lee - I have played this organ on several occasions - I also have some knowledge and experience of organ building, in addition to experience as a consultant on several organ rebuilds. I have had the pleasure of playing at least half of the cathedral organs of the UK (some many times). The Worcester organ is one of the healthiest-sounding 'wrecks' which I have ever had the privilege of playing. I still think that the cathedral authorities are being led a merry dance. The new Tickell and Nicholson organs might well turn out to be good instruments - that is not the point. I, for one, will not be giving a single penny to this madcap scheme!

I agree with much of what you say. However, the new 4p Octave on the GO was something which I suggested to Paul Morgan several years ago, along with the Viole Céleste. Personally I think that the Octave has improved the clarity and power of the GO chorus noticeably! I cannot agree about the mixtures - it really needs brightening-up, particularly since the Choir lost its Cimbel and the Twenty Second was re-scaled as a Larigot - a retrograde step, as far as I am concerned. The new Minstrel Organ certainly helps the organ to fill the building - I am not at all sure that it is still too quiet for the cathedral! However, I do agree about Crediton - I suppose, given that it is largely in its original state, the voicing of the chorus reeds should rightly have been preserved. I would still prefer something which I could use without getting a headache, though....

A good point -I agree! Just as long as they are not on adjacent slides! I have a 'hidden' flute céleste on my own instrument - the Swell Stopped Diapason beats very slightly with the GO Rohr Flute - resulting in a beautiful effect. Oddly, each rank seems quite in tune with other ranks on their own divisions.

Please explain 'banked' - do you mean 'mounted'? Yes, the Cromorne should be a fairly big sound - add a clarinet if you wish. I suppose that it might come in handy for 'lining-out' a verse or two of a Psalm; or the odd bit of Whitlock. Personally, I will stick with my Crumhorn....

You do not even need to leave the country to find one [a chamade Regal]. The weird Mander* at Jesus College Chapel, Cambridge has one on the Choir.... * My apologies, Mr. Mander! At least you know that if I say I like a Mander organ, I mean it....

Two points: 1) I made the same point as highlighted above, regarding Ely (1975) and Gloucester (1971). I still think that these organs are (or were, in the case of Ely) an improvement on what was there before. However, Worcester is different in several respects to many other Romantic instruments. I would be interesed to know if you have actually played the Worcester organ! 2) I understood from at least two of the cathedral staff (at Worcester) that they have the impression that the organ is falling apart and that it is 'the worst cathedral organ in the country'. Sorry - this is patently not true! I was also interested to hear many people (including the Dean) comment that they had not heard the organ sound so exciting and so full for a long time. This was directly following the voluntary which I played after Mass. Please do not mis-understand me. I am not for a moment suggesting that my playing is superior to that of the excellent incumbent organists - this I know to be untrue! However, it does perhaps indicate that there may be a certain amount of 'under-playing', or making the organ sound worse or less adequate than is strictly the case. Certainly, I found it totally able to do everything which I called upon it to do. What it may all boil down to is this: the appeal mentions the sum of £2,000,000 - this is a lot of money. It is just possible that, by spending a quarter of this sum, Worcester Cathedral may give a new lease of life to their existing instrument. With a careful restoration, there is no reason whatsoever that it should not give many years' good service. Are you sure that it is not just a case of wanting two really expensive new toys?

Not remotely! The old Gloucester organ probably had more in common with the Crediton organ. Certainly, listening to the 'Great Cathedral Organ Series' recording and the later (?) recording of the Elgar Sonata, the organ sounds thick and lacking in brilliance. Whilst there are some beautiful quiet sounds, the GO Trombi are opaque, as is the Pedal Ophicleide and would probably have become extremely unpleasant with prolonged use. A former assistant, Herbert Byard, wrote an article on the Gloucester organ in The Organ, shortly after the instrument's radical transformation by Ralph Downes. In it, he states that many people (including many genuine music-lovers) found the old organ oppressive and heavy, particularly when played loudly. As far as Exeter is concerned, this instrument is one which I know quite well. It has a very distinctive sound (not greatly modified in the recent restoration). To my ears, it does not sound like a typical Willis - or a Harrison, for that matter. This is not to say that it has an unpleasant sound. I find it one of the most satisfying instruments on which to play - certainly the most comfortable - along with Coventry. Perhaps one of the failings of the recent work [at Exeter] was that the GO mixtures were not revised - as they stand, they lack brilliance and clarity. The IV-rank sounds very 'quinty' and the Sharp Mixture (29-33-36 at CC) add little in the way of brilliance. This aside, I consider it to be a very fine organ. On the subject of the Crediton organ (H&H 1921), recently restored by Michael Farley, I heard a new CD a few days ago. Whilst the quality of the playing is excellent, I was un-impressed with the sound of the organ. The full GO and Pedal I found distinctly unpleasant - the GO reeds were the most opaque I have ever heard - like Tubas. The 32p reed (which was used extensively) was also somewhat strident in its middle range (which is, I recall, the Ophicleide, from which it is extended). The recording quality was acceptable, as was the balance. However, I realise that a recording is not necessarily a true representation if the instrument, as heard in the building. I played the restored organ about a year ago and, whilst it did sound a little better in the building, I came away with the impression that there would be little for the Pedal and GO reeds (or the Tuba) to do, on a normal Sunday.

There appears to be a fairly common idea that DB changed the Gloucester organ dramatically. This simply is not the case. He caused a Quint 10 2/3p, Tierce 6 2/5p, Septième 4 4/7p and a Bombarde 32p to be added to the Pedal Organ. The Bombarde is not extended and is of full length, heavily mitred. One 8p stop was slightly revoiced and another stop was changed in pitch (details by PM, if anyone desires). A Sub Octave coupler was added to the Swell Organ. No other revoicing or tonal alterations were made at this time. The removal of some of the case-roof panels was carried-out before the Nicholson restoration. Listening to it on the TV broadcast of Midnight Mass, I wonder if NIcholsons have subsequently opened-up the 32p Bombarde. They did, I believe. have to replace some of the tongues fairly soon after the rebuild, due to corrosion. However, on the broadcast, the 32p Bombarde was clearly audible and sounded quite thrilling, whereas in the building (either from the console or downstairs) I clearly remember it being very disappointing (except for EEEE) - something upon which DB also commented.

As far as I can remember, the most recent time that I played this organ, the stops had been engraved correctly. (I had previously seen them with blank knobs.) I suspect that the story of them being removed when the DOA visits is apocryphal.... I remember Portsmouth as being fairly pleasant - but personally, I would not have described it as 'classical'. I know I have said this before, but having played Worcester for services on a few occasions (including some fairly big voluntaries) I thought that it was superb and fitted the building like a glove. Niether was it out of tune, apparently short of wind or malfunctioning in any other way - save for one disconnected Gedeckt 8ft. on the Swell. It may not play Bach particularly well, but it does an exceedingly good job of French (and English) Romantic music. It could just as easily be argued that Salisbury and Truro do not play Bach that well, either. Having played all three, I think that I would prefer to play JSB on Worcester - at least it has decent quint mixtures on three manuals (and pedals). In case anyone looks at the date and time of this post and thinks 'New Year's Eve - how sad is that?' I am staying with some friends and the programme currently being watched in the lounge does not excite me.... Happy New Year!!

I would not place any of these organs on the 'world's worst' category - they just happened to come up in conversation!

Therein lies your answer! Just about any British cathedral organ will sound remote and unimpressive from the back of the nave - particularly when it is full of people. Winchester and Salisbury are the same, (although Winchester does have the longest medieval nave in Europe). Walk about three or four bays west of the crossing and it is as if someone has closed a door on the organ. Winchester is slightly better than Salisbury, although it would haver helped if Harrisons had actually placed the Nave division in the nave - rather than in the bay next to the main organ and east of the choir screen - which seals a lot of the tone in the quire. Ah well, at least it is nice and noisy from the console!

Thank you for that - good fugue! Who was playing - and where? MERRY CHRISTMAS, EVERYONE!!

This is certainly true - the nucleus of a four-clavier instrument of forty-one stops was used in the present organ. However, comparing it with my memory of the R&D at St. Andrew's, Plymouth (and allowing for the point that Guildford Cathedral is almost certainly considerably larger than its previous home) I suspect that most ranks were re-voiced and possibly in some cases, re-scaled.

It is probably true to say that the Willis-type Salicional and Vox Angelica are more restful in prolonged use than the more reedy Gamba-style ranks often used. Personally, I think that there is a place for both. Thomas Murray was once asked (by Geoffrey Morgan) what stops he would have on a practice-organ if it could only contain two ranks. He immediately replied "Awww, a Salicional and a Céleste!" In reply to Pierre's comment about a Céleste needing to be soft - the Unda Maris and Salicional on the (unenclosed) Positif Orgue at N.-D. are huge! (But still useful and beautiful in tone.)

Indeed - but I believe that the tonal alterations were, in any case, limited to the re-balancing of the GO and Swell four-rank mixtures, the replacing of the Positive Nason Flute with a Principal and the substitution of the Solo Piccolo by a second-hand Vox Humana. I have also heard the story and, yes - it is best not repeated....

....and with a splendid late-Romantic moustache - which, incidentally, can be heard on the last track....

Insofar as balance is concerned, I believe that Roger Fisher used to insist on his assistants wearing headphones whilst playing. These were connected to the cathedral's p.a. system. (The headphones - not the assistants.) Whilst I would agree with Paul that in some respects it is a nice organ, I think that its essential character has been lost. Roger Fisher made several changes to the scheme as left by R&D in 1969. Four of the mixtures were reduced in ranks and their composition re-cast, the GO Twelfth became a Tierce (1 3/5). The 2p Spitzflöte became an Open Flute, The Open Diapason III was given Spitzflöte resonators from C25, the Stopped Diapason a 19th Century ex-Walker treble (of wood). As Paul mentions, the Solo reeds were also changed - the ex-Hill Orchestral Oboe rank originally used for the Schalmei was felt to be unsatisfactory, so a rank of clarinet pipes (provenance not given) was substituted. Then there was the Pedal Organ - the independant Principal (in the North Transept) was replaced by a stop derived partly from the Fifteenth (presumably in the main case) and partly from the GO Open Diapason II. The Choir Organ lost a Hohlflöte 2 and the second Larigot (1 1/3) and re-instated a Hohl Flute 4 (presumably part of the original rank) and a Fifteenth (that must be really useful when accompanying the choir....) Some of these changes were effected shortly after the completion of the original work, whilst some were carried-out in 1992. Personally, I just think that this organ has been messed around with too much! Why, incidentally, would one desire fourteen (square) pistons for each division? (particularly when this exceeds the number of stops on at least two of the departments). Perhaps David Wells has managed to return it to a more sensible state!

Oh yes - it certainly will....

Are you sure it was the full organ? I have played this organ (and heard it from the nave) a few times and thought that it was rather loud - certainly quite loud enough for the building. Geoffrey Morgan did once say to me that he could hold a full nave together in a hymn on the Swell Cornopean and both octave couplers. Although I do not particularly like the work of R&D, I did find this quite a pleasant organ - and comfortable to play. St. Andrew's, Plymouth is also a good instrument - and also more than adequate in this large church.

A colleague had occasion to play this instrument shortly after the completion of its restoration. He found the experience distinctly unpleasant, largely due to the fact that the pistons constantly operated themselves (seemingly at random) throughout the time he was playing. I believe that he may even have abandoned one of his solo items mid-way. Whilst one expects some initial problems, particularly in a restoration of this magnitude, he was somewhat un-impressed. He wrote to Manders and received an apology and an explanation regarding the origin of the fault, the nature of which I cannot now recall. I wonder if a similar occurrence was the cause of the incident to which you were a witness?

I recommend that you purchase a copy of his early recording Les "Incunables" - now re-released on a double CD [sOCD 177/8] from the Carbou's Solstice site. This performance comes in at 8' 48". (Mine is 7' 27", for comparison). Personally, I think that it is the best performance which I posses on CD. The discs also include excellent performances of the Liszt Ad nos and Dupré's Symphonie-Passion. The recordings were made shortly after his appointment as Titulaire, in 1955. Apart from the slightly poisonous tuning of the (then) un-restored C-C, these discs give a good idea of his skill as a performer and an interpreter and the sound of the C-C before its long restoration. (It does not sound like that now, either from downstairs or in the loft!) Cochereau's interpretations are also pretty accurate, by the way! When he did depart from indicated speeds, he usually did it with good reason - not just because he could! In the case of his recordings of Dupré's Trois Préludes et Fugues (Op. 7), he discussed in detail his plans with the composer - who gave his unqualified blessing to the alterations of tempi. However, I do agree that some recorded performances (yes - even by PC!) are too fast - Wayne Marshall and Christopher Herrick both spring to mind. I recall hearing a performance (from Westminster Abbey) of Brewer's Marche Heroïque after a R3 Evensong broadcast. Herrick played it at a ridiculous pace. I cannot remember whether or not it was accurate, but it certainly was not particularly edifying - or musical.