pcnd5584

My 'own' instrument has three-such choruses - including what I consider to be one of the finest GO choruses I have ever played. I do not have any mp3s - however, I do have a CD which was recorded on the organ and released commercially last May - a copy of which I can supply, if desired. (Assuming that I am permitted to advertise, here - I have no idea!)

Another point occurs to me about Worcester (well, you did choose to read this thread!) - I realise that it is easy to sit and criticise a paper scheme, which is, as it were, in a vaccuum at present; however, there do seem to be some basically odd choices. Why put the cornet séparé on the GO? Particularly if this organ is primarily intended for the accompaniment of the choral services? Secondly - if the above is the case, then what is the Choir Organ for - why include a sesquialtera? (not the most useful accompanimental voice). Also, a II rank mixture - given that it will not necessarily have to serve as a foil to the GO, why waste space with a mixture at all? Why not have a greater choice of 8p or 4p stops? The Cor Anglais - keep it on the Solo, out of harm's way - or lose it. See next point. The Solo Organ - possibly over-reeded - if there is to be an Orchestral Oboe, also to include a Cor Anglais on a five-stop soundboard is wasteful. Given that the Swell and Choir strings seem to be intended to be gentle (insipid?) Angelicas, why not include a Viole Céleste? One of the faults of several recently-construced instruments is a lack of colour - there is often too much emphasis on chorus structure and duplicated mutation ranks. It is simply not possible to do everything with mutations, as someone has said. To clarify - I am not suggesting a return to an 'orchestrion' - I value a good chorus more than anything, but again, if the primary role of this instrument is to accompany choral services, there appear to be some wasteful elements in the scheme. I made many comments with regard to the (then) proposed scheme at Christchurch Priory many months before the contract was signed. My letter was passed (without my consent!) to the consultant who replied, rather rudely, that I did not know what I was talking about. Since the organ was completed, virtually all of my suggestions (and one or two extra points) have been adopted in costly, further work. Now there's a funny thing....

Which serves to prove my point - surely it is self-defeating to adopt such a course of action in the case of the Priory organ?

WHERE??!! Do tell!!

Yes - but I still do not find Dulcianas remotely useful. They are usually very quiet and are flat-toned (I do not mean in intonation). The sound I find quickly palls. It is generally too quiet to use even with a 4p flute. Their only use, to me, seems to be to provide a 'true-tuned' rank against which a quiet Unda Maris or a Vox Angelica can beat. The ranks would, of course, not stand on adjacent slides.

Neither, for that matter, is anyone else.... I have now located and re-read the RCO announcement concerning the proposed Goll organ. Whilst they do not clearly state that a contract had actually been awarded, I feel that this is strongly implied in the wording of the article. I am still concerned that the RCO is not stewarding its resources to the best effect. Currently I am undecided as to whether or not to renew my subscription for this year. Yes - I realise that it was due in July, but since I apparently get nothing except an occasional newsletter, it is difficult to justify the expenditure. Particularly in the light of the fact that it now seems that certain things the RCO announced that it was going to do, it is now unable to carry-out. Has no-one on the council heard of counting pennies before embarking on grandiose schemes? If they do ever get an extension to the Curzon Street buildings, why not save money and rescue a three-manual British organ - there are no doubt currently several threatened specimens in the country which would benefit from escaping the scrap-yard.

There are so many things wrong with the Priory organ - not least that it is covered in an enormous wooden box. Tone-cabinets are not always the answer. One cannot just slavishly follow rules which work well for one country, with different architectural positions and acoustic environments. One of the main features about werk-prinzip construction is that the most successful continental examples are shallow - only one department deep. They are placed against the west wall and thus able effectively to project the sound down the main axis of the building, into the greatest sonic space. The building in question is also likely to have a greater interior height and stone vaulting (as opposed to fake plaster vaulting with wooden ribs).

It could have been worse - he could have been called 'Ramsbottom' or 'Willey'....

Personally (and especially on a small instrument) I would much prefer to have a good 8p flute or Stopped Diapason instead of a Dulciana. It would be more useful in supporting singing and in the playing of voluntaries.

Indeed - presumably there is some other reason. Are the ranks metal, or wood? Is it possible that the problem was caused by tightly-fitting slides (probably swelling with excess moisture) and that, since the temperature increase, they have dried out? Incidentally, are the GO reeds true Trombi - or did Walkers revoice them and not bother to re-engrave the stop-heads? If the former is the case, perhaps it would be possible to investigate the possibility of re-instating the Harmonics. I do not particularly like the stop and am concerned that it has a limited musical use; however, it may help to bind the reeds to the flues and partly to counteract the smooth 'oily' timbre of the reeds. I assume at present, the intervals at CC are 19-22-26-29? One further question - is the 32p Wood open throughout or are the lowest five/seven pipes acoustic?

Ummm.... I thought that 'Geigen' came from the German word 'Geige', meaning violin - what's the 'shallow' bit?! For all those of you who are thoroughly sick of the Worcester thread, I have two alternative suggestions: 1) Don't read posts in this thread. 2) I am happy to share the url for Hot Belgian Fishwives. (Sorry, Pierre.)

For the record, I wrote that the leather should be replaced, and the stopper re-greased - not that one should simply add more grease to old leather. Naturally, this would increase the tendency of the stopper to slip down inside the pipe - resulting in a one-way Swanee whistle.... There are several pipes in the 4p rank on my 'own' Swell Organ, where a sliver of paper would have little or no effect in counteracting the problem of shrunken and compacted leather. Is this not, in any case, a somewhat lazy method of correction? Back to Halifax PC: Having finally located a specification, I assume that the given intervals for the former GO IV rank were 17-19-flat 21-22 (in fact, a standard H&H Harmonics) - not as given in the NPOR. THerefore, is it possible that the replacement mixture details are also incorrect and it should read as a IV rank 19-22-26-29 mixture? Certainly, this was a favourite GO mixture composition of Walker's at the time. I am not sure why they would have replaced the previous IV rank mixture with a III rank stop (as stated), since the upperboards were already bored for four ranks.

Actually, I was expecting it to be louder. Admittedly I had a seat in the front row, so was almost directly under the east corona gallery, but it was not that hair-raising. (Ian coupled it and the Tuba Magna to everything else - and then added both Sub Octave and Octave couplers.) I can testify that N-D is louder, with all claviers coupled and the four ranks of chorus chamades in play. The second point - surely no-one tunes in a 'mathematically accurate equal temperament' - the octaves would be too wide. Most organ builders (and, for that matter, piano and harpsichord tuners) have their own system of modified 'equal' temperament tuning. Fourths and fifths (in 'white-note' keys) are often bent one way or another, for example. This is surely why each key has its own tone-colour. To my ears, D-flat major is a richer sound than D major - which I find brighter than E-flat. I also find G major brighter than A major, to name but three examples. One of the reasons Willis organs do not sound the same after having been tned and maintained by other firms is probably more fundamental - they usually effected tonal alterations! Mixtures were often changed and reeds revoiced. Choir organs commonly also received a revised tonal scheme. One of the most obvious examples is St. Patrick's, Dublin, which received a 'standard' Walker Positive Organ scheme in the 1960s. Unfortunately it is now neither one thing nor the other, since H&H 'restored' it. They replaced the excellent Walker Cymbal with a much lower-pitched mixture, which does nothing for the chorus. Since the Willis work had been lost, I personally feel that this was a retrograde step. They (H&H) left alone the odd Solo scheme, with its Sesquialtera (and nothing suitable to go with it). Why not replace it (the stop was not original) with a Viole Céleste ? St. David's Cathedral fared better - the FHW Choir Organ pipework was stored in the Deanery and re-instated (by H&H), together with a second Choir Organ, consisting of a brighter chorus and mutations - the old Choir Organ assuming the role of a Solo Organ. The H&H at Carlisle Cathedral was also substantially altered. As Walkers left it, it was a bright, versatile instrument, with a Willis/H&H foundation. After the recent work by David Wells, the Choir Organ is again somewhat of a half-way house. Having a familiarity with Walker Positive Organs, I suspect that the previous Choir Organ scheme was of greater general utility than the present incarnation. What exactly does one use a Dulciana for? Certainly not (as far as I am concerned) to accompany an oboe - the timbre is usually too similar. I have never understood organ builders' fastidious inclusion of dulciana ranks in almost every scheme - to me, it is one of the most useless, colourless stops on an organ. In any case, it often duplicates ranks found in an enclosed Swell Organ, where they are of more use. Then there is this current obsession (as at Carlisle and, I believe, Lichfield - to name but two examples) of organ builders (or consultants) specifying two 2p ranks on a Choir Organ - often at the expense of mutations or contrasting 8p ranks. I can think of several instruments where a well-designed and well-voiced 2p rank serves as both a flute and an integral part of the chorus - to good effect. St. Alban's Abbey, is a case in point. In fact, several schemes designed by Ralph Downes include this feature. However, I am less happy with his tendency to plant GO twelfth and fifteenth ranks on one slide, drawing as a Rauschquint. Personally, I strongly dislike having the GO twelfth as part of an 8p, 4p and 2p chorus - I prefer this combination without the muddying, quinty effect of the fifth rank. This is, of course, just a personal opinion. To those who like Dulcianas - I do not have a problem with that; as I said, it is a matter of personal choice.

Well, the Tickell scheme has at least one flaw on paper - the loss of the 16p Bombard on the present Solo Organ - which performs the useful role of filling-in the sonic gap between a GO with only 8p and 4p reeds (i.e., no 16p) and a pedal organ with a 32p reed (and two open 32p flues). I like a nice Sackbut, too; but what is wrong with 'Contra Posaune'? Surely it is not a bastardisation - the only difference possibly being that the prefix might be spelled 'Kontra'. I have seen plenty of more peculiar names on continental instruments.

OK - thanks, David. It would be helpful if we were advised to use the NPOR button at the top, instead of the Document Archives button. Simple - when you know how....

Personally, having used it on one instrument, I found it less flexible, largely due to the number of channels being reduced by more than half. Apart from the fact that I never want a piston labelled 'Swell to Pedal' suddenly to become a reversible for the Solo Dulciana chorus (for example), I think that the propensity for mistakes considerably outweighs any perceived advantages of the design. Since organs with a reasonable number of pistons tend to have the piston-heads engraved with useful legends such as 'Trombone' (reversible) or 'Gen 8', etc, the resulting confusion is easy to imagine. I confess that, with a fair number of departmental, general and well-placed reversible pistons, I cannot see the point. As another contributor has previously asked - does this mean that the music (or the console) is festooned with Post-it ® notes? However, there is one organ for which the 'Scope' system is admirably suited - the superb JWWW at Romsey Abbey. With the only registrational aids being ten general combination pedals with one or two reversibles and thumb cancel and set buttons, the 'Scope' system would increase the flexibility of the instrument (or, at any rate, would make it easier to negotiate). In addition, an increase in the number of channels and a more sensible channel selector (digital, hidden, like the tv screen) would also help. The Romsey organ, for those that are unaware, is one of the most beautiful instruments in the country. The sound is noble yet clear, with the most unlikely registrations succeeding quite effectively in the warm acoustics of the church. The one exception, in my view, being the Tuba (sorry, Mr. Mander), which I would swap for twelve pipes to complete the 32ft. compass of the pedal reed at the drop of a hat. Apart from this, (and the re-thinking of the Swell action and the design of the present coupler-chasssis) I would leave well alone and just enjoy the superbly musical sounds this organ makes. I was fortunate to be in Romsey Abbey last Saturday night and the organ is just one of those instruments that says 'come on, play me'. I did and was enthralled by the grandeur and beauty of its voice. In my opinion, it is definitely worth a visit.

Sorry - I forgot to say that in the pub after the recital, I asked the same question of Ian Tracey, who informed me that Harry Goss-Custard hated tierce mixtures and had them re-cast. He then bought me another drink. (Ian Tracey, not Harry Goss-Custard....) However, since this must have been some considerable time ago (HG-C died in 1964), I do wonder why the book was ever printed with the old mixture intervals (at CC) given, incorrectly.

Well, I have tried it. However, it appears to be considerably less user-friendly than the previous incarnation (which also had its moments). Basically, I cannot find how to reach the relevant archive. I have followed the instructions and avoided abbreviations. I can reach a page that tells me that there is an archive (BIOS) but I am currently unable to make the quantum leap to the page. If I type in 'Halifax', or 'Halifax' (and then 'Harrison and Harrison' in the organ builders' box) or even 'Halifax John Baptist' as a keyword search, I either get nothing or I get a page which tells me there is further information, but then turns petulant and refuses (as far as I can see) to direct me to the page. I would be interested to know whether or not the writer of the software has ever tried to use it 'from the outside', as it were. Certainly, it appears to lack a logical progression. Or else, the response programming is illogical. (It is, of course, also possible that I am too stupid to negotiate the NPOR software.) Either way, if anyone has the specification of Halifax Parish Church, or a degree in quantum physics (or, for that matter, the psychic ability to discern the contents of the NPOR) please IM me or post a message. Thanks Grrrrrrrrrr......................... :angry:

I am reasonably fortunate in that my own church is kept fairly constant at around 65 degrees Farenheit. There is a humidifier, which runs as necessary. Strangely, insofar as the tuning is concerned, the organ seems to prefer it hot. Returning from holiday either last Christmas (or the one before, I mis-remember), I was met by the Administrator who apologised and explained that, due to repair work on the heating system (and the fact that the engineer had forgotten to re-set the controls to automatic after running a capacity test), the building was very hot. I went in and tried the organ and absolutely everything was in tune. The organ seemed quite happy. What this may have done to the soundboards and the action, I am not so sure, but it was very pleasant for the next Sunday. With regard to Halifax, it is an organ of which I know little - is there a specification available anywhere, please? A point about the Swell flutes. This may also be due to shrinkage in the stoppers (if, of course, they are stopped flutes....) and may be remedied by re-packing with more leather and grease. Alternatively, Charles Wooler's suggestion may be worth trying. However, I suspect that there may be a somewhat greater difference between the cost of two or three extra tuning and maintenance visits and keeping the church at a constant 65 degrees Farenheit.

Well, Richard, I would certainly agree that the Hill/Hele/Mander at Chichester Cathedral is a wonderful organ, but it might sound a little tame in York, Lincoln or Durham. I also think that those instruments are fantastic, too - especially Durham. I must admit that I have never heard it 'in the pipes', as it were; notwithstanding, on recordings it sounds superb. I did not think that I would like Liverpool (Anglican) but ,having attended Ian Tracey's excellent recital at the end of August, I must admit that it was a superb sound (except the big tuba, but then, I do not generally like tubas). I am pleased to note that the organ booklet is incorrect - virturally all the chorus mixtures appear to be comprised of quint and uinison ranks. There was none of that reedy clang one normally associates with a 'Willis' organ. (The sound of which mixtures I quickly tire.) Instead there was just a glorious brightness. Of the RAH I am less sure. I suspect that I might like it better if the orchestral canopy and the mushroom-thingies suspended from the roof were removed and the original (or close) acoustics were recovered. Orchestras have had the bias in their favour for a long time - perhaps it would be good to redress the balance - and actually put on a series of organ recitals, perhaps early evening, or Sunday afternoons (or whenever people might actually be persuaded to attend). I did play it once when I was a student. Even then, it was slightly unwell and whole sections were either unplayable or had been disconnected for remedial work. However, whilst playing the Dupré B major P&F was very comfortable, I have to confess that the sound of the organ from the console did not really excite me.

I am puzzled - did you have to cease membership of The Organ Club because of this problem? As Rev. Newnham intimates, it is, in any case, relative. Standard (or if you prefer, 'concert') pitch was re-defined at least three times in the last century. Arguably, it may be more correct to use the term 'remembered pitch'. I, too, have a good sense of pitch (particularly useful when improvising, but a confounded nuisance when transposing). However, to call it 'perfect pitch' is, in my opinion, confusing since this term carries at least some implications of inherited ability. Clearly, with the re-setting of 'concert pitch' in the last century, this would cause some problems. Whilst I am pleased that you have not yet experienced recordings of organs which are not in a state of 'just intonation', I can only suggest that you explore recordings of French organs. For that matter, I have a few recordings of English cathedral organs which are less than perfect. For example an old Michael Smythe recording of the Hill/H&H at Peterborough Cathedral - the final track (I believe) is the Bossi Entrée Pontificale. The last chord or two has a really unpleasant treble E on the Tuba - which is odd, since it would have been about five or ten minutes' work to re-tune the pipe, either at the slot or at the tongue - (cans of worms march past the window). There is also one of the recordings which was made by Naji Hakim on the C-C at Sacré-Coeur, which was described in Organists' Review (possibly by Paul Hale) as having 'particularly poisonous' tuning. Sometimes it is a winding problem - as on my 'own' instrument. It is hoped that a restoration will address this problem. However, since there appears to be no correct solution to every case, I am unsure as to whether it would be better to replace the present concussions with new Schwimmers, or wheter to replace one or two of them with small double-rise reservoirs. Any thoughts will be received with interest.

Well said, Paul!

Incidentally, if there is the occasional letter apparently missing from my posts to-day, I am using a friend's computer and the 't', 'h' and 'r' are particularly reticent to appear. Alternatively, it could be that I am just a bad typist.

Whilst I would agree with you, in fairness I should point out that you have also used the word 'farts' with regard to the organ of Gloucester Cathedral (6-ix-2005) and I have used the word 'sexy' on at least two occasions.... Perhaps the point is, as I believe Brian Childs has stated, a certain amount of humour is good. However, it is of course right that we refrain from any libellous statements or gratuitous offence, whilst not becoming too prim or judgemental. It could also be said that, in the light of some of the things which we organists have to endure in the course of executing our duties, a sense of humour may well prove to be a valuable asset - if not actually a saving grace.

Four - and for the record I always belived that the person concerned was definitely male.