pcnd5584

With respect to the Pédale[ grosse] mutations, I agree. In fact, certainly from the console, the Quinte (10 2/3ft.), Grosse Tierce and Grosse Septième supply a resultant 32ft. which is more impressive than the 32ft. Principal. With regard to those on the claviers,whilst I see your point, there are in fact several different dynamic levels of chorus reed. Those on the Positif are obviously quieter than those on the G.O. (being a family of clarinet-toned ranks). Those on the Récit are of course dynamically flexible. It is only when one adds successively those of the Grand Chœur and the four ranks of chorus chamades that the sound becomes particularly intense. Then again, this instrument seems to have managed perfectly well without these extra mutations for most of its life. (Whilst some may say that it also managed without chamades, in practice, these ranks are necessary, in order to fill the enormous sonic space of the cathedral.) Goodness - as you say, I cannot imagine where they will fit this box. This will at least make these [partly] new stops more flexible.

Does anyone have any practical experience of rebuilding and refurbishing concussion units of the type supplied by J W Walker in the 1960s? Whilst I suspect that those at Blackburn Cathedral (since replaced) and Paisley Abbey (also replaced) differed slightly in detail, there must surely have been some basic similarities. It is interesting to note that the J W Walker instrument in Liverpool Metropolitan Cathedral appears still to have its original winding system - which I presume employs concussion units, as opposed to reservoirs - or is this incorrect? On the evidence of a number of excellent commercial recordings, they seem to work perfectly, the instrument not exhibiting shortness of wind, for example. I am growing more concerned and dissatisfied with those here at the Minster and at present a rebuild (or even a restoration) is simply not an option. Is there anyone amongst those contributors or board readers who has ever dismantled one and therefore knows what I am likely to find? Our organ builder did once propose to install a temporary single-rise reservoir to the Positive Organ and remove, reverse-engineer and refurbish the concussion unit for this department. However, at present, we simply cannot commit to any financial outlay, even on this scale. Please note that I shall not be attempting to do this on my own - but to assist our organ builder, should he agree to undertake exploratory work. However, as far as I know, he has never seen inside a Walker concussion unit before, and so neither of us really know what to expect. We need to avoid (at all costs) damaging the instrument or rendering it partially inoperable, or compromising the integrity of any of the concussion units. Consequently, if anyone is willing and able to give us some preliminary advice, it would be appreciated greatly. For reference, the problems are as follows: The wind system is (and apparently has always been) inadequate for the instrument. Not only do big chords sag in pitch (and occasionally volume), but there is some robbing between ranks (which may of course be soundboard or pipe planting problems). However, one only has to draw the Swell 8ft. and 4ft. flutes, play a three-note chord, then play one note on the Pedal Bourdon, in order to hear the pitch drop. It has got to the stage where it is beginning to be more noticeable - and irritating. What we would like to achieve is a more steady wind supply, with concussion units which actually react instantly to varying demands on the wind system. Does anyone know if it is even worth attempting to do this - or is there anything else we could do, temporarily to alleviate this distressing fault, until such time as we have the financial resources to effect a complete overhaul and restoration? Thank you.

Although the organ of Nôtre-Dame de Paris already has a good selection of mutations - on two or three claviers, together with the 32ft. harmonics on the Pédale Orgue. Whilst they might be able to produce pretty or even piquant effects in improvisations, I should have thought that they were an unnecessary luxury - as is surely the case with yet another new console. Yet these new stops are on an open soundboard - unless a new expression box has been fitted in somewhere in this instrument.

Stunning - and heart-warming. Thank you, Barry.

Absolutely. I would suggest that this could upset clergy (never a wise idea) and possibly damage relationships between organists and their choir - and congregations. It is often the case that organists are more highly regarded than they might realise - often people (rightly or wrongly) simply do not say so, these days. In fact, only a couple of weeks ago, I had just this type of experience at my own church. Frankly I think that to act upon this suggestion may cause irreparable harm. Leading the worship at a service is a serious responsibility and not to be taken lightly. Personally, I should never squander the gift of improvisation on any light-hearted musical 'comment' - whoever may be present. Not in a service. I have no wish to come across as dogmatic or unduly censorious - but I regard this suggestion as having the potential to cause both offence and lasting damage. Perhaps some here play for churches in which such things may give rise to gentle amusement. However, one never knows how things may be taken. Surely, we as organists are primarily there to assist others in their worship of God and to seek to offer of our best - every time. I am aware that this is probably sounding pompous - this is not my intention. However, I find it difficult accurately to express my concern over this matter. I trust that board members will perceive that which I am trying to say - and doing so quite inadequately.

We (Wimborne Minster) are only about forty minutes down the M27/A27/A31. If it is any help, the repertoire here is quite large and varied. (We sing a fully choral Eucharist, Choral Mattins and Choral Evensong almost every Sunday in term time.) If this is not too far, and your friend would be interested to know more (I can send a few past music lists, for example), please do not hesitate to send me a PM.

This is true. For the record, my colleague had it worse than I did, since he volunteered to play for the 06h00 service, which meant getting up at about 04h30. I would also have to say that our choir is a dedicated, enthusiastic group. The men (and the kids) also attended six times between the Mass on Maundy Thursday evening and Evensong on Sunday. (We sing the Litany on Good Friday morning at 09h00, then decamp - minus the front rows - to the 'choir' pub, which opens just for us. There, a full English breakfast awaits us (with kedgeree for my colleague), and we spend a pleasant hour or so stuffing ourselves.) To be honest, Vox is right; I may have been exhausted by Sunday evening, but I would not have missed it for all the tea, etc, etc.... The choir were splendid, the Minster was full. Even the chamades were just about in tune and useable. We are very fortunate to have such a good, loyal choir. A high point was arriving quietly at the back of the Minster, shortly before 09h55, on Good Friday morning. I sat down just in time to hear them sing Lotti's Crucifixus from the Baptistry (under the West Tower - one of the few places with some 'bloom' to the acoustics). It was magic - actually, beautiful and very moving. They finished the last chord just as the bell struck the hour. Fortunately we have a rector who is very supportive of the music and who recognises its value in worship. I therefore deem myself almost* as lucky as David Drinkell. * As yet, I do not have that fourth clavier to play with....

Gah.... Four services - the first at 08h00*. I got up at what was effectively 05h30. The choral music included: Choral Mass: Schubert, in G (a late change, on Thursday night - it was supposed to be Mozart's Coronation Mass, with a small instrumental ensemble, including the organ. However, the orchestra were unavailable, for some reason.) Greater love - Ireland. Choral Mattins:Sanders responses, Easter Anthem, psalms 114, 117, Te Deum and Jubilate to the settings in B-flat, by Stanford, Ye choirs of New Jerusalem - Stanford. Festal Evensong: Sanders responses, Psalm 135, Magnificat and Nunc Dimittis to the settings in D, by Dyson. Blessed be the God and Father - S.S. Wesley. Voluntaries: after the Mass, I improvised a brief toccata on Orientis partibus. (This was for two reasons; firstly, my teaching term did not finish until Thursday early evening and secondly, the Mass had over-run. so that it finished at about the time that Choral Mattins was supposed to start.) My colleague played after Mattins - I am not sure what - probably some Bach, since the choir and one organist get to leave after the anthem and before the sermon. I take turns with my colleague to enjoy this privilege. After Evensong, I played Bach's 'Trinity' Fugue, in E-flat major (BWV 552). * On Christmas Day and Easter Sunday, the 08h00 Mass congregation get two hymns and some voluntaries. This year, the local organist who usually plays, was unable to do so.

Indeed - these days. In any case, I thought that it was brioche - not cake. (Not that Marie Antoinette actually said this originally.)

Thank you for the information, David. How definite is the connection with Lewis? Quint mixtures on an instrument by HN&B, of this vintage, would have been rare. (As you are no doubt aware, they often used a type of 'harmonics' for their compound stops - as did R&D - presumably modelled on that by H&H, since at C1 it had the composition 17-19-flat 21-22.) Is the fact that this organ possessed quint mixtures one of the pointers to a possible connection with T.C. Lewis?

This is indeed good news. David, do you have any further details about what the work entails, please? For example, is the the original stop-list of the Choir Organ (before it was a Positive) to be re-instated? In addition, is it possible that the other tonal changes are to be reversed (The Clarabella re-instated on the G.O., instead of the Claribel Harmonic Flute, and the Harmonic Gemshorn replacing the Super Octave on the Swell Organ.) For that matter, I wonder if the Pedal 16ft. and 8ft. reeds, which were prepared-for at the console (at the time of the 1975 rebuild) are to be inserted?

This still seems rather negative. I believe that the thread lamenting the (then) imminent loss of the former Hope-Jones/Harrison instrument in Worcester Cathedral ran for around thirty pages. The choice is still simple - avoid this thread.

Goodness.... I trust that she was not wearing clothing fashioned from Lycra and out jogging at the time?

You are welcome. I have touched the old console - when it was in the former Musée de Nôtre-Dame (across the street from the North West tower; it closed in November 2008). I got my then girlfriend to distract the guard*, whilst I took a couple of photographs and patted the old console. One never knows whether the French will keep old consoles and organs simply as museum pieces, so I just wanted to say that I had touched Vierne's console. One only has to look at the sad case of the church of St Jacques, Abbeville, to see what can happen. Whilst it is good that the organ is being saved from destruction, the church appeared to be beautiful. Whilst France may be well-supplied with beautiful Gothic churches with stone vaulting and fine acoustics, nevertheless it seems tragic that this church is simply being bulldozed for a lack of funds to restore it. I wonder how secure the fate of the church of S. Ouen, Rouen will be in, say, twenty years' time? * Please do not ask how she did this. Not even by PM.

In which case, simply avoid reading this thread.

That is a bit like writing 'Do not read this note'. If we move on, this thread simply becomes redundant. Alternatively, just avoid reading any further posts on this topic....

I shall be interested to hear your report. However, for my money, there is nothing which he could possibly say that would convince me that this new console is an improvement on the previous console - nor that it was even necessary to replace the former console.

Not so sure about this. A relative had one and it was rubbish. Thin bodywork, very basic (I know that it was originally intended for use around a farm or similar), mechanically unreliable and so, so ugly.

On closer inspection, the stop-jambs look suspiciously like varnished plywood. Are they SURE that the previous console was of inferior workmanship to this bizarre creation?

But in fact the Nôtre-Dame organ was already well-supplied with solo (and chorus) mutations. I would be interested to see the reference to your statement that Cavaillé-Coll used mutations extensively at Nôtre-Dame, in order to overcome the particular acoustic environment of this large edifice. In any case - they failed to achieve this end - which was precisely why Cochereau had the first chamades added by Robert Boisseau (I think we agreed somewhere around 1969). It was only once these stops had been added (and, to be fair, the further re-arrangement of the plenum) that this instrument actually filled the sonic space of this vast Nave. I would also question whether the 're-constituted' Cavaillé-Coll chorus on the G.O. is actually that exciting. Both from the tribune and from downstairs, I found that it was only with the addition of the surviving Boisseau/Cochereau choruses on the Solo and Grand-Chœur that the instrument came alive. (At least as far as the flue-work was concerned.) The re-constructed compound stops on the G.O. as progressions harmoniques were only used by Cavaillé-Coll for about eleven or twelve years. After this time, he was encouraged (largely by Guilmant) to return to including more classical choruses (with mutations) in his instruments. Personally, I find the chorus work of the present G.O. and Récit-Expressif inferior to that of the instrument prior to 1990. In particular, removing both chorus mixtures of the Récit-Expressif was, I believe strongly, a grave error of judgement. If one does not wish to use them, simply do not draw them - nor set them on any of the multiple combination devices available on this instrument. With regard to whether or not the present titulaires acted simply on whims - this may or may not be the case. But in the matter of the hideously ugly new console, I think that I know the answer to this question. Perhaps Olivier Latry drives a Citroën 2CV.... Incidentally, the organ builders (Quoirin) seem uncertain as to the spelling of 'Resonance'. On their website, in giving the current specification of the instrument, they spell it in two different ways: 'Resonnance' and 'Résonance'. On the new console, (on the divisional name-plate) it is spelled 'Resonnance' *. Surely the correct spelling is 'Résonance' ? * See here: http://api.dmcloud.n...4c?wmode=direct at 1'.40".

This is an interesting and important point - although I would also suggest that for those of us fortunate enough to have our sight intact, an ergonomically designed console, which is also pleasing to the eye is a psychological advantage when playing an organ. This said, Pierre Pincemaille manages stunning feats of control (apparently effortlessly - well, almost), on the original console at S. Denis.

Absolutely - I agree entirely with this viewpoint.

I would agree entirely with this viewpoint. I further doubt that the new console has any functional (or ergonomic) advantage over the old console - which I also liked. The new Resonnance division appears to me to be entirely a whim of the present titulaires. To me, this latest rebuild (and bear in mind that this instrument is scheduled for further extensive work next year) has taken this organ somewhat further from its Cavaillé-Coll roots than anything Pierre Cochereau did. Oh to have this instrument returned to either its 1932 or its 1977 state - I am almost at the point where I do not care which of these two incarnations it resembles; I should view either as a vast improvement on this latest bizarre scheme.

Thank you for posting this, Jon - and welcome to the forum. It looks to be a fine instrument. I too would be interested in further details, please - when they become available.

Would that be Bristol Cathedral? Well, possibly. But in many cases, it is surely the fact that, unlike the layout of most non-conformist places of worship, Anglican churches tend to have the Sanctuary and the High Altar in front of (and below) the east window, which prohibits the placing of organs there. Um.... where is 'here', MM?