pcnd5584
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Posts posted by pcnd5584
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I suspect that you are in fact a male organist - possibly a recent graduate, with time on your hands....
How about a serious post?
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====================The only possible solution is to employ the services of a titulare!
MM
Oh God....
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There is another advantage - you will not need to use the General Cancel.
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Well, hopefully I shall have my opinions confirmed or proved wrong tomorrow.
I do know that the last time I heard LIverpool in the building (with Ian Tracey playing) it was extremely loud and, in my judgement, more than filled the space. I am sure that they do not need all those tubas and things - what about some nice Boisseau chamades?
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Nope, sorry! St. Peter's, Rome is somewhat larger than Liverpool! It has a moderate-sized three manual. Apparently it is adequate for their needs!
By the way, Magna - if you are on-line, perhaps you could answer your telephone (or even call me!!)
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Well, thank you, M. Lauwers!
I think that it is a pity that the Cymbale on the fifth clavier was re-cast, though. If there is already a Fourniture IV (19, 22, 26, 29), I cannot really see the point of having a Mixture III (22, 26, 29) - particularly in that building.
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Anyway, to return to the posted topic: does anyone know of any surviving 'Father' Willis organs in parish churches? I have listed three or four, but I cannot recall any others at present.
I would be interested to hear of any others.
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Oh, I wouldn't do it for services, I'd be too scared of buggering it up.You do not need to worry - as I have said, no visiting organist is permitted to play for services at Westminster Abbey!
There, that should be clear enough.
(With apologies to nfortin, just in case he is also upset by bold type....)
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Can anyone explain the different coloured handbags at the side of the messages. I can't find the list of what they mean. I think the pink ones are very fetching, but I don't like the blue ones quite so much.Go to General Discussion and scroll down. There is a legend in the lower left-hand corner.
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Perhaps we could outlaw red, for the same reason.
How about simply choosing a different typeface?
Hmmm - Geneva and Optima look suspiciously like Arial sans-serif to me.
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I've played the Abbey organ several times in the past, although I've not heard it recently.So have I - but not for services! I should have stated that the Abbey authorities do not allow visiting organists to play for services.
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Well of course the digital stops and sub octave don't have to be used........I very much agree about the "mud" effect, which is also a feature of Gloucester.Well, that is something else over which we shall have to disagree!
I agree with Mark Blatchly - having played Gloucester many times, both before and after the restoration, I find that the Swell Sub Octave is extremely useful. The added gravitas, used with discretion, helps to fill-out the sound. It is, after all, not an unusual stop - most cathedral organs have a Swell Sub Octave.
The last section of Tu es Petra (Mulet) sounds somewhat more grand with the Swell Sub Octave. I use the effect on my own church instrument - for example, on a recent recording. The final track is the Choral from the 2me Symphonie by Vierne. The final section, without the Swell Sub Octave, just sounds thin and top-heavy. With it, the balance is restored and there is a sense of grandeur to the sound. Only in the lowest left-hand note of the last chord is there a slight sense of muddiness. However, it is, in my opinion, preferable to the alternative.
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Let's then hope the prof is a little more fortunate than the advertised female recitalist.
Ummm....probably best not to go there....
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Well, I certainly find tutti effects exciting.
However, there are one or two organs which I have heard (in this country) where the full power of the instrument is just too much. It is worth considering that there is surely a difference between a thrilling, glorious blaze of sound and just being whacked over the head with sheer noise.
N.-D. is about as loud as I could wish for - particularly from upstairs, leaning against the case.
Samuel Green? Nah! Not my thing. Give me a decent, full-blooded cathedral organ any day - but, with some restraint. A quick burst for a final chord may be acceptable, but many organists are guilty of the inartistic use of so much power, that the music is lost beneath a huge wall of noise.
However, I intend to travel up to Liverpool for the BH recital on Monday - Prof. T is doing it, since the advertised recitalist had decided to give birth. I am assuming that the programmed recitalist is female.... No doubt I can hear the new party-horns for myself
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Well, maybe it is a sin to make links between things that seem to be different;of course Howells, Tournemire and Reger are different, no doubt.
What they share is a style we call "post-romantic" in french, and a mood: meditative
music for big churches or cathedrals, deep-minded compositions perfectly suited
to gothic or neo-gothic atmospheres.
They are the trilogy of my preffered late-romantic composers, whose best suited
for organs were -and sometimes still are- systematically dismissed, and destroyed
wherever-whenever possible.
Maybe one day we shall need an organ style designed to suit the three.
Best wishes,
Pierre
Now that is an instrument which I would wish to see - and play! Although, it occurs to me that we may have one - currently residing in St. Paul's Cathedral, London. In addition to a wealth of quiet flutes, strings and reeds, it has at least two contrasting diapason choruses and a variety of chorus reeds. No mini-bar, though.
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I've played another Walker organ of a similar vintage, where bits kept falling off the console, half the combination action didn't work properly and the wind was definitely in the "wicken" category......North, South, East & West....all over the place.MM
May I ask which instrument this is, please?
Well, I am just glad that our Walker is not a 'Friday afternoon' organ!
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Preferably not yellow, orange or grey.... there is a lack of contrast against the white!
Perhaps we could petition Mr. Mander to see if the creators of the board are able to load a communion wine-coloured font....
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I would certainly agree with Richard and nfortin - if only organists could see themselves primarily as custodians, we may well have not already lost some of our precious organ heritage.
I agree about the Klais at Bath Abbey - I, too, played the organ in its previous incarnation and thought that it was wonderful. The present rebuild has, of course, lost a department - the old organ had Positive, Choir, GO, Swell and Solo - now there is no Choir Organ. Personally, I think that this is a retrograde step.
In the mean-time: an organ with a hair-piece. Now there is a novel idea....
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Interesting, because their workmanship in at least one other organ of a similar vintage is extremely good. True, the winding was somewhat experimental and resulted in a slightly unstable supply; but then, the rebuilt organ of Christchurch Priory (which utilises new Schwimmers) is also unstable. Insofar as the action is concerned, the workmanship is excellent and still functioning well.
I did not realise that Wood & Co. supplied new soundboards to Blackburn - this is particularly strange since I assume that when the organ was rebuilt by Walkers, they had also provided new soundboards. Is it certain that it was not just the (new) Solo division which had a new soundboard, but all departments?
I think that a new console was only provided because it was felt that it was not possible to rebuild the previous console with a fourth manual.
I do wish that the cathedral authorities had chosen a different type-face for the drawstops, instead of retaining the copperplate script. When I played it, I found that it was difficult to read the engraving at a cursory glance, due to the florid nature of the script chosen.
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Personally I think to argue that the likes of Truro or Lincoln being with us forever, or indeed any organ is pretty pointless
Latest tweeakings occur at Blackburn for example, and one day even there, yes the lot WILL go!!! Sorry, but read the history books!!!
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Well, maybe I am not quite so cynical as to think that everything will go.
Blackburn is still very much Blackburn, and the small changes wrought are entirely reversible should someone so feel inclined in the future. Blackburn has a big advantage, because very few organs can do so much so well, and I think those who know and are respinsible for the instrument know this all too well.
We now have so FEW extant Fr.Willis organs in our cathedrals, I feel sure that the last remaining ones will be respected, just as the Grove organ at Tewskbury is respected.
I cannot even imagine that anyone would ever want to change St.Mary-Redcliffe, which is a glorious piece of work from the premier builder of the age. It may be unfashionable, but I've never heard anyone complain about it or want to scrap it.
It comes back to antiquity and the value of antiquity, surely?
Antiques are not expensive because they are better made necessarily. They are expensive because they are rare or perhaps unique, and make a statement about a particular age.
By my reckoning, Truro, Salisbury and Hereford now fall into the priceless antique category, as does Redcliffe. Blackburn is a modern classic, like a rare piece from Cartier, and people don't usually destroy what is outstanding, from whatever age.
I am optimistic.
MM
Whilst I agree with several of the points which both of you have made, I feel that it is worth noting that none of the organs listed are in their original state - not even Truro, which had minor revoicing in the 1960s - of which we know, if you see what I mean.
Hereford, Lincoln, Canterbury, Salisbury and St. Mary, Redcliffe have all been altered to varying degrees. Whilst in some cases, these alterations were easily-reversible trifling affairs, others were rather more comprehensive. Even St. Mary, Redcliffe has had the GO and Swell Organ mixture compositions altered twice (I think) in the last twenty or so years. Then, of course, there was the replacement of most of the Swell Organ, necessitated by a fire in or around the 1940s.
I strongly suspect that there are further un-documented alterations which have been made to these (and other) instruments. It is only comparatively recently that we in this country have developed an obsession with recording and stringently assessing any proposed work on our church organs. Quite often, even in cathedral records, small alterations are inadequately or incorrectly recorded; trherefore it is possible that we may have a slightly-distorted sound 'picture' of our cathedral organs.
It is only with a small number of instruments - for example, Reading Town Hall, Oxford Town Hall and possibly Blenheim Palace that we may have a more accurate record of that which 'Father' Willis intended. Even then - are we certain that no organ builder ever altered the voicing, or the scaling - or even substituted a rank of pipes?
After all that, I must agree with Jeremy Jones - I deplore absolutely the addition of digital ranks to any pipe organ, be it Blackburn, Southwell, All Saints', Margaret Street or wherever - I do not see the need to resort to this, which I regard as a form of dishonesty. I like things to be that which they proclaim to be. In furniture, I prefer real wood - I dislike laminates and chipboard with a (photographed!) veneer. I would prefer to do without an item of furniture, until such time as I am able to afford to purchase a quality piece which will last.
In the same way, I desire organs to have tonal integrity, as it were, with every sound being produced by pipes. But that is, of course, only my view.
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Hi pcnd, this organ would work in just about any cathedral... but there you go, the nature of the exercise, as you clearly understand...just a few things:
why no 15th in the pedal mixture?
Why a salicional 16 on the Great? I would expect a 16' double diapason. Not of wild scale but something firm with plenty of definition and gravitas...
Why a separate octave and principal at 4' on the Great. I'd expect that sort of chorus structure with 3 8' Open diapasons, etc...
Which way would the chaire organ point? Why are there no reeds on the chaire organ?
With 8'+4' principles on the chaire, why the jump to 2/3' for the first rank in the mixture?
what's the purpose of a great/chaire exchange on this organ? The chaire is hardly a C-C positif!
Trompeta real on the nave organ - I take it this isn't a chorus reed?
And, forgive my lack of understanding, whats emp on the 32' ranks?
Pedal Mixture - I can think of more British organs with a Pedal Mixture composition of 19, 22, 26, 29 than, for example, 15, 19, 22. Since most Pedal Organs which contain a Mixture also contain a separate Fifteenth, I can see little point in including it in the compound stop.
GO Salicional - I do not believe that it is always necessary to have a diapason as the sub unison on the GO, particularly if the building is not very large. The Salicional would afford a good compromise - adding depth and colour, without obscuring musical textures or being too ponderous.
The GO Octave and Principal - acoustic coupling. It is a well-proven fact that a well-designed and voiced octave rank can enhance the power of a unison rank. This expedient was adopted recently at Exeter Cathedral on the GO, to good effect. I had mentioned this idea to the Sub Organist about fifteen years ago. It is pleasing to note that the exchange was worthwhile! I believe that Renatus Harris and his contemporaries were also in the habit of adding octave-pitched 'helpers' to certain ranks in order to amplify the unison. There have also been other, more recent examples.
Chaire Organ - I do not know which way it would face. The scheme is hypothetical and I stated that a full site survey would also be needed! The Recorder is voiced to fulfil a dual role as a flute and a diapason - at St. Alban's Abbey, Downes specified the Choir Wald Flute to perform similar tasks - a fact not always appreciated by any visiting organists who are used to registering theroetically, rather than by aural judgment. The Twenty Second is, in any case, a principal-toned rank.
Since the most obvious reed to put on the Chaire is a Cromorne (or similar), I chose to place such a rank on the Solo, in order better to facilitate the playing of Couperin, de Grigny, Marchand, etc. These composers sometimes call for a dialogue between a Cromorne and a Cornet séparé.
The Chaire/GO exchange - this was included to enable the more accurate performance of certain French works in which the English order of claviers would become a hindrance to realising the prescribed registrations. For example, the end of the Prelude from the Suite (Op. 5), by Duruflé. There are others, but it is now 01h05 and I am tired!
Trompeta Réal - God, no! A sexy fanfare stop for, well, fanfares....
Emp. - Empruntée - this signifies the borrowing of a part of one rank in order to complete the compass of another.
I hope that helps to clarify my intentions!
It was a fun exercise, though!
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I have to confess that I do not know much Tournemire. I do know the organ in S. Lô, though - I played it once, a few years ago. In addition to being an excellent instrument, the church has superb acoustics. I remeber thinking that the reverberation period following a chord on the tutti appeared to last for approximately eight seconds. This would certainly give added mystery to most works.
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Well, certainly. But of course, one could also refrain from using the chamades and the 32p Bombarde! S. Sernin also has a wide range of flutes and strings - many quiet effects of great beauty and restfulness are still possible on this organ.
Have you also heard the older recordings by Adrian Gunning at Coventry Cathedral? I would be interested to know what you thought of the suitability of that organ.
Consoles
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On a more serious note - I find that the pedal board on my own instrument is quite uncomfortable. I (and a few colleagues) did wonder whether or not it was correctly aligned. However, when it was checked with a plumb-line, we found that it was in fact D under D. It still feels as if it is too far to the left, though.
I also think that there may be a slight error in the measurements elsewhere - I ifnd most other pedal boards considerably more comfortable - including several French pedal boards.
Perhaps I should try to persuade the church authorities to purchase a straight and concave board - oh, and a new stool.