Clavecin
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Posts posted by Clavecin
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This has appeared on the Cathedral Website
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I see that 'Grammar Schools' have had a mention, anyone remember them?
I attended a Boys' Grammar in a small northern mill-town from the mid '60s to early '70s, we had a Compton/Makin electronic in the school hall, and a Music Master who was O&C of the town's Parish Church (all-male choir etc.)
I can remember 5 boys, as well as myself, who were learning the organ whilst I was at the school; some held local organist's posts outright, others were assistant organists or part of an organists' team at their church. Four, like myself, went on to further ed. in music and eventually jobs as music teachers in secondary education. I don't think any were 'high flyers'.
The school organ got plenty of use, I played it most lunch times, daily assemblies with hymns and voluntaries in and out.
During my 30 plus years as a Head of Music I have only had 2 organ pupils from within my school.
DT
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I am not an organist but I was rather surprised that Carlo Curley maintained that it was necessary to rehearse each day, as a concert organist.
Isn't it like riding a bike, ie that when you have learnt you never ever forget ?
Colin Richell.
Several years ago I heard Carlo give a recital at a church in Scotland which has a modest but very fine 2 manual Lewis.
He was dressed in very casual clothes and played the whole recital from memory, explaining that his suitcase containing all his clothes, shoes, music etc. had been stolen from the train during his journey.
Needless-to-say the recital of standard fare: Bach, Franck, Mendelssohn, Mozart and others; was immaculately performed, and as far as musicality was concerned it was one of the best recitals I have heard.
DT
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What is this new regional rivalry? First we had the Duke of Lancaster's Tuba, and now the Sheriff's Trumpet?
If they're going to go riding through the glen, then perhaps "Hooded Trumpet" would be appropriate, or the slightly more risque "Marian's Trumpet."
Surely, the time has come to have wonderfully inventive names for these party horns, like they do with special bottled beer and real ale.
They would have to be reserved for big horns and 32ft reeds, or things out of the ordinary; perhaps on the following lines:-
"Eee what a racket" 16 (Any 16ft baroque style reed in Yorkshire)
"Bloomin' eckolphone 8" (The York Tuba)
"Cor blimey m8" (The west end Trumpets at St Paul's)
" 'ere wack 8" (Liverpool Tuba Magna)
"The Blackburn Slitherer 32" (The infamous brass Serpent)
Naturally, things would have to be in Latin or Greek for Oxbridge, such as "Corno Copiae 8"
I'm sure there are lots of possibilities.
MM
I hear that as well as the 'Grand Old Duke of York Tuba Mirabilis' the Minster is re-casting the Great mixtures as follows:
Mixture 111 - will be Richard 111
Furniture IV - will be Edward IV
Sesquialtera 11 - will be Princes in the Tower 11 (unfortunately the resonators of these pipes have been disconnected!)
DT
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Quite a few years ago there was a TV programme featuring Gillian Weir at St. Sulpice preparing a recital of Messiaen, anyone remember it?
She had 2 registrants, a young man and a young woman who, we were told, were the 'resident' registrants there. Not only did they pull stops but they also operated the ventils.
I've been told by French organists that it was common on Romantic C19th instruments for page-turner/registrants to also operate the expression pedal where it is a lever to the right of the pedal board.
DT
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Anyone come across Jean-Baptiste Robin before?
He is titulaire at Poitier (where he certainly won't be playing this - Pédalier à la française!), I have his set of Couperin CDs from there which I like a lot.
Here is the Durufle P&F from St. Eustache; very fine indeed, very well controlled.
Notice in particular the big time-delay at the mobile console!
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Hi Martin,
I thought I would relate a charming incident I came across in France whilst on holiday in '94 at the Bastide town of Lauzerte.
2 children were being given a rather unusual organ lesson, they both had violin cases with them and I got the impression that this was part of a 'summer music school'. The boy was no more that ten years old and the girl younger, the boy was quite confident and obviously enjoying the fact that visitors were sat listening, the girl less so. They played a couple of simple manual pieces, the boy managing final pedal notes. Next they had to stand up on top of either side of the organ stool and sing hymns whilst the teacher accompanied!
However, the bulk of this lesson which lasted about 45 minutes was spent improvising; solo, both childen together, and duets with the teacher.
Beginning with 1 chord and pentatonic melody, progressing to 2 chords and more free-flowing melody. Again the young boy was confident, had a good grasp of what he was doing and enjoyed himself.
I try to attend at least one mass with organ at a French Cathedral during our annual visits and have heard many well-structured, stylistic and convincing improvisations. No directionless quasi-modal meandering, no torrents of un-related chords, no strings of added major 7ths and 2nds, I could go on...
I feel that here in the UK we have something to learn from this, that improvisation skills are an integral part of an organist's training that need to be taught and developed from the onset. This appears to be the case in France, with obvious results for the mature musicians produced.
DT
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As this topic has re-appeared after 12 months I just thought I'd mention, for anyone interested in organs north of the border, that the Crichton and St. John's have appeared at last on NPOR with some photos.
We had one of our regular short breaks north of the border last week and I was saddened to hear that Tom Carrick died on the 27th May.
Tom was organist at both St. John's and the Crichton, Dumfries (the latter church no longer having regular Sunday services). He had been the organist of St. John's since 1956, presiding over rebuilds by H&H in 1969 and 2008.
I am aware of one other forum member who knew Tom.
DT
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I will be visiting the eastern side of the Loire this year and very much want to visit Bourges Cathedral. It is one of the few 'premier league' French cathedrals that I have not visited, and from looking at photographs on the web it looks magnificent.
Does anyone know anything of the organ ? I have a vague memory of an acquaintance playing there some years ago, which suggests it is a fine instrument. I have also found a CD on the internet which suggests that the instrument is Classical rather than modern.
If possible, can anyone suggest how I might approach to ask if I could play the instrument ? French cathedrals and their organists always seem a mystery to me ; there never seems to be an organist or other appropriate contact named on the website and, obviously, nothing like the 7 days a week music programme that we have at cathedrals in this country.
On the other hand, my experience in France has generally been that if you make a courteous enquiry, you are welcomed warmly.
Hope someone can help.
Kind regards,
M
Greetings Mark,
Stepping into Bourges Cathedral is a truly 'jaw-dropping' experience, very much like Amiens in terms of sheer verticality. I visited here en-route back from the South of France a few years ago. I too have visited all the 'premiership' French Cathedrals and many 'lesser league' ones too, Bourges is one of the very best in my opinion.
Here is the spec of the organ, I didn't hear it when I was there.
Personally I have always found French organists very accommodating in terms of letting you play. Last year I approached the organist after the main Sunday Mass at Sens and was allowed half an hour on the organ.
To make prior arrangements to play I suggest you make contact through Les Amis, the site give a contact email address and the name of the Titulaire.
Good luck,
Regards,
David
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His son William is the present organist at Ampleforth Abbey and is on the music staff at Ampleforth College.
If you drop him an email at the College I'm sure he will furnish all the information you need.
DT
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Anyone ever experienced a 'cause or impediment'?
At one wedding for which I played many years ago, the Vicar warned me before hand that there was the strong likelyhood of someone raising a 'cause or impediment' when the question was asked.
The plan was that, should this happen, I should play as loudly as possible whilst the bride, groom, families and whoever raised the 'cause', retired to the vestry to sort it all out.
To my great disappointment, the incident didn't happen.
DT
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I had some time on a Phoenix organ today, this is the first time I've played/heard one of these and I was very impressed.
It's the large 3 manual installation at St. Elphin's Warrington done about 2 years ago.
The R&D has been 'moth balled', Phoenix have installed a new console in the space of the old one and speakers within the existing organ chambers. It's an unusual set-up, Sw/Gt/Ped spread across the west wall, console Ch and a Ped rank in the crossing.
The keyboards are budget plastic but 'a lot' better than many I have come across with quite a nice feel. The spec. is very similar to the pipe organ, supplemented with the usual additions you would expect - 32s, mutations, solo reeds loud and quiet.
It's a big church and the Sw/Gt/Ped speakers are a long way from the console which allows the sound plenty of space to mellow (not what you get with a home organ!), but gives you some problems with delay.
Usually with electronics the mixtures are a dead giveaway, I found these most acceptable indeed. The only criticism I would make was that the 2 loud solo reeds were not particularly pleasant or refined, but on reflection I suppose the Phoenix Tuba was probably better than many pipe ranks of that name I've come across!
DT
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Anyone watch last week's episode of QI, the one with the German theme?
As usual it was erudite, witty and thoroughly amusing.
One of the topics they discussed was internet forums, in particular what happens when an arguement develops.
Someone appears to have calculated the number of posts it takes until the point is reached when members start refering to Hitler and the Nazis.
For some strange reason I kept thinking of the Tewkesbury thread!
DT
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The version on the Kevin Bowyer CD appears to be an arrangement by Reger whereas the DGW performance is the Lionel Rogg version. In the CD notes David Gammie comments "in his preface to his more recent transcription (1988) Lionel Rogg justifiably suggests the end result sounds more like Reger than Liszt; in this new version he has tried to remain as faithful as possible to the original score, taking insparation from Liszt's own style of writing for the organ". I have not heard the Reger version so cannot comment further.
I beleive the Léonce de Saint-Martin CD mentioned earlier is yet another arrangement.
From the look of the Rogg score I would agree. The distinctive pedal writing and much of the left hand was very similar to the Sandor Margittay edition of 'BACH' which I use.
(p.s. thanks for the pdf files!)
David
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Heard this piece played at Blackburn Cathedral last Wednesday by Jonathan Vaughn (Assistant at Wells).
It is a transcription by Lionel Rogg and published by UMP of Liszt's 2nd Légende for piano about St Francis de Paola walking on the waves (the 1st is about St Francis of Assisi preaching to the birds).
This formed the centre-piece of Jonathan's excellent recital, it makes a pretty spectacular organ piece (on a suitable instrument in a suitable acoustic of course; Blackburn ticks both boxes here). I had a look at Jonathan's score afterwards, it looks a bit more difficult than BACH and Ad Nos, but I would guess that the piano original would be even more difficult! Jonathan must have put a lot of hours into this to get it to such a standard.
There are plenty of piano performances on Youtube, but no organ ones.
Has anyone else come across this?
DT
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Dumfries.... There are 2 outstanding organs here which I sometimes play, neither is written up properly on NPOR so I will get full details next time I visit and write them up properly.
- The Crichton Memorial Church has a 2 manual T. C. Lewis .....
- St. John's Episcopal has a 3 manual 1938 H&H ....
As this topic has re-appeared after 12 months I just thought I'd mention, for anyone interested in organs north of the border, that the Crichton and St. John's have appeared at last on NPOR with some photos.
DT
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Murton,
If it's a short item you're after, I would suggest 'Nun danket alle Gott' BWV 192 as an excellent introduction to the world of Bach Cantatas.
At about 11 minutes it's shorter than most being only 3 movements as opposed to the 6 or 7 of the average Cantata.
Each movement is clearly based on the well-known tune with no recitatives:
1. The usual Choral Fantasia with the cantus firmus in the soprano part and plenty going on in ATB and accomp.
2. Aria for Soprano & Bass, quite straightforward.
3. Another Choral Fantasia, this time one of those wonderful Bach driving 6/8 romps with an accomp which lodges in the brain and is hard to shift!
You'll find the score on the web-site I suggested.
If you want a recording look here. (there's an audio file of the last movement attached to the ad.)
Regards,
David
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Have a look at this website.
I've posted this link before on the forum on a previous topic about Bach's Cantatas.
The site contains the scores for the bulk of the Cantatas in pdf form which you can print and play as you wish, I've used it a few times myself to make organ arrangements of some favourite arias.
An excellent resource.
DT
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I too have been researching this matter recently, being I suppose like many other forum members of the generation brought up 'pre inegale' so to speak.
My approach has been to purchase a recent recording and scores of Francois Couperin's 2 Masses. There are 3 CD sets available at present:
Jean-Baptiste Robin from Poitiers, Pierre Bardon from Saint-Maximin, and Bernard Coudurier from Albi. I went for the Robin CDs as I've heard the other 2 organs in the buildings but not heard Poitiers yet (also by far the least expensive - on the Naxos label) and the Dover edition of the combined scores, the whole lot cost less than £20 - remarkable value!
I have greatly enjoyed studying Robin's fine performances and agree with the points Nigel has made. The organ sounds fantastic but a little 'swimmy', the various 'en taille' and 'recit' movements are absolutely gorgeous. Of particular interest also has been the ornamentation of the inner parts of the 'plein chant' movements.
DT
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STOP PRESS - CROSS-BORDER BACKLASH!
I have it on very good authority that, not to be out-done, a certain Yorkshire church has sent a drawstop back to the engravers.
The stop will now be known as 'Grand Old Duke of York Tuba Mirabilis 8'
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What will happen to the console of the Makin organ? Presumably it is made of good quality stuff and could be re-used in a pipe organ scheme? Was that console originally built by George Sixsmith?
Makin were located very near to Sixsmiths who were building one console per week for them during Makin's heydays. Andew Sixsmith made me a custom toaster with a high quality drawstop console 12 years ago.
The gentleman I spoke with at the Priory said the Makin had a lot of problems, becoming increasingly unreliable with difficult or impossible to rectify faults.
The console could make the basis of a good home toaster (or two!) for someboby.
DT
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Visited Lancaster on Saturday, and picked up a glossy leaflet/fund raiser in the Priory about plans for the replacement of the notorious Makin electronic.
For those of you who don't know Lancaster the 1922 H & H was discarded in 1979 to makeway for 'reordering work' and a large 4 manual Makin inserted in the space of the original console, the case being filled with speakers.
The present proposal is that David Wells will place a large pipe organ on the substantial west gallery, and a smaller pipe organ in the existing Austin case in the north choir aisle. Both instruments will be controlled from one console placed on the northeast side of the choirstalls.
The nave organ will be the redundant 1913 Willis 11 from St. John's Blackpool with the unfortunate tonal alterations of the 60's largely reversed. This will be housed in a redundant case by Austin & Paley (noted Lancastrian architectural practice who build many outstanding large churches in the northwest including St. George's Stockport) from St. John's Great Harwood.
The choir organ will be the redundant 1904 H & H from Blackburn Girls High School. Very similar indeed to what Harrisons originally installed in 1922 when a large proportion of the scheme was 'prepared for' only and remained that way until the 60's (what a difference to the changes they implemented at Blackpool!).
I got the impression that David Wells has both these instruments in his possession at present
Here are the proposed specs.
NAVE ORGAN
Great:
Double Diapason 16
Open Diapason No. 1
Open Diapason No. 2
Claribel Flute 8
Principal 4
Fifteenth 2
Mixture 111
Tromba 8
Swell:
Geigen Diapason 8
Lieblich Gedackt 8
Aeoline 8
Voix Celeste 8
Principal 4
Fifteenth 2
Mixture 111
Contra Fagotto 16
Cornopean 8
Hautboy 8
Choir: (originally enclosed)
Stopped Flute 8
Viola da Gamba 8
Viola Celeste 8
Flute 4
Nazard 2 2/3
Piccolo 2
Clarinet 8
Duchy of Lancaster Grand Trumpet 8
(that's the mother-of-all drawstops)Pedal:
Acoustic Bass 32
Open Diapason 16
Open Metal 16 (Gt)
Bourdon 16
Octave 8
Flute 8
Flute 4
Ophicleide 16
Tromba 8 (Gt)
CHOIR ORGAN
Great:
Contra Gamba 16
Open Diapason 8
Hohlflote 8
Dulciana 8
Principal 4
Harmonic Flute 4
Fifteenth 2
Swell:
Violin Diapason 8
Lieblich Gedacht 8
Salicional 8
Voix Celeste 8
Gemshorn 4
Flageolet 2
Mixture 111
Trumpet 8
Pedal:
Bourdon 16
Bass Flute 8
Estimated cost will be £443K of which only £85K needs to be raised. The gentleman I spoke with at the Priory thought this would happen within the next 12 months. Considering that the Priory owns neither of these pedigree instruments, and that structural work on the gallery, choirstalls and organ chamber will be necessary, this sum looks like remarkable value to me.
It looks an exciting prospect to me, the nave is relatively short so the distance from the choirstalls console should not pose problems. My only reservation is that I would prefer to see the nave organ dually playable from an attached console in the gallery although this would of course add to the cost (don't know if the original is still in existence).
DT
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Many thanks to Robert for taking the considerable time to supply us with such a comprehensive and accurate account of the York organ (and correcting my error concerning the reeds!).
DT
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Lincoln Cathedral organ going flat out is inaudible in a full nave.
It's ugly too.
Peter Godden
I certainly wouldn't describe the Lincoln sound in the nave as 'ugly' although it makes little impression down there, but agree with AJJ that it sounds fantastic in the choir.
However, the acoustics in the choir are little dry, which makes the Swell up in the triforium sound rather cold and separate from the rest of the organ.
The best sound by far is heard under the tower.
The legend goes that Dr George Bennett (organist 1895 to 1930) requested of the new organ that he should be able to use full organ when accompanying the choir. Well, that's what he got but who know whether that was Willis's intention?
As subsequent posts have discussed Francis Jackson and the York great reeds, I have it on good authority that FJ considers the 3 great reeds at Lincoln to be the finest in any British Cathedral organ, and I agree with him.
At York the Contra Tromba and Tromba were high pressure ranks, whilst the Trumpet and Clarion were low pressure ranks on one of the great flue chests. In 1960 Walkers revoiced the 2 Trombas as Posaunes (still on high relatively pressure) and put them on pallet magnet chests to make them also available on the choir manual. The Trumpet and Clarion were left untouched. As part of Geoffrey Coffin's rebuild a new 4 slider chest was created to house all 4 great reeds on high pressure as the Trumpet and Clarion were considered to be ineffectual.
DT
(that's the mother-of-all drawstops)
Leeds Cathedral
in The Organ
Posted
Is it Ben playing?
DT