swalmsley
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Posts posted by swalmsley
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Beautifully performed with just the right tempi for the building.
The restored Magna has a cameo role at the end - and what an impact it makes! But even more remarkable than the sheer decibels is the brilliance of tone.
It's hard to believe that it's the same stop!
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Downes makes several remarks about the 32' Open Wood in Chapter 11 of Baroque Tricks. I'll summarise, rather than quote directly.
His dislike of it seems to be motivated by
a) It being distant from the organ and relying on the acoustic to create an illusion.
b) Father Willis having previously judged its provision to be unsuitable.
He then goes on to say that it was "unceremoniously discarded for the irrelevancy that it was".
His says later that the fullness of the giant scaled Bishop 16' Open Wood (called "Flute") completely compensated for the lack of a 32' register.
And his final remark on the topic is where he expresses an opinion of the general superiority of the (then) new instrument, as a result of several factors including the lack of "booming 32-feet" of the previous rebuild
In my personal opinion, whilst the Flute 16' did not completely compensate for the lack of a 32' stop, it got very close indeed. It's one stop of several whose loss in 2023 is, I think, unfortunate.
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What an interesting description of an organ's purpose. I would have thought a more appropriate and modern one would be along the lines of "to deliver impactful and measurable musical artefacts in a cross-paradigm environment aligned to the requirements of all stakeholders whilst reaching out for maximum community engagement but within the defined budgetary envelope."
I am sure JSB had something similar in mind when he composed.
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Courtesy of a web archive; Southwark, Westminster, and St. Paul's:
https://web.archive.org/web/20090408071425/http://www.organrecitals.com/siteguide.php
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It was a superb resource, and one I myself used regularly.
It was largely so because of the thousands of hours Stephen spent clarifying, editing, and sanitising the submissions to a very high standard. His perfectionist streak would permit nothing less. This was a constant - and unpaid - drain on his time. The hosting fees were paid out of his personal pocket.
I remember him telling me - at some time around 2002 - how later that evening he was going to have to manually edit about 18 separate pages to remove postings which were now in the past. "There is a better way...." I responded, and the now-familiar database-driven organrecitals.com was born, enabling a much greater return on Stephen's time, and the expansion to the remarkable level of comprehensiveness of its heyday.
I doubt we will ever see its like again. Not because of the tech, which, whilst effective, is straightforward and easily reproduced. But because there won't be a person or organisation willing and able to invest so much unpaid editorial time in maintaining such a comprehensive database to such a high standard.
It was good - great, even - while it lasted. Stephen's long service to the community should be saluted.
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It is quite possible to do an organ project single-handedly, provided one has the skills/training/tooling and time available to do that particular project. If the project is "sort out the squeaking swell shutters by tomorrow" then that's going to be within the capability of any organbuilding operation of one person upward. If the project is "build a copy of St Sulpice within 3 years", then only the largest firms would even be able to contemplate that - and if they were not wise enough to decline, they would heavily subcontract!
Many amateur organ builders (and even some professional ones) operate solely by buying redundant instruments cheaply and modifying/assembling/restoring them, to a greater or lesser degree. Irrespective, they don't make the "tricky stuff" such as metal pipes and R/C pedalboards as that needs such specific tooling and skills.
So the suggestion to look on the internet and see what's available is a good one - from two perspectives. Firstly, it shows what others have done to solve similar problems. Secondly, it provides an impression of what might be available as raw materials to an amateur organ-building process. Perhaps some "raw material" might be a close match, with very little changes needed?
If the objective is to create a low-cost home practice pipe organ, then I think the above is the only approach which is likely to be effective.
If the objective is to try to replicate the process a professional pipe organ builder would go through to create a home practice pipe organ, from scratch, with all-new components, then I fear this is a very much more challenging and expensive exercise. If plans are not outsourced, then the difficulty is greatly increased, because design mistakes, especially when noticed at a late stage, can be very expensive.
If the objective is to build up a kit of parts into a very small - portative or positive - organ, for fun, then this is possible, for a price. Again internet searches are helpful.
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At that scaling they would appear to be gambas!
It does seem a bit strange to bury the whole 10k pipes (which are intrinsically decorative) in a big dark box and then make a false, albeit quite distinctive, decorative frontispiece.
I much prefer the honesty in the "functional pipes used decoratively" style, such as at RAH, RFH, Coventry, Blackburn, Liverpool Met, and so on.
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A marvellous production in every respect.
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Are there any other known instances of a movable mechanical-action console?
And how have they done it? (Clearly, the fact that it is movable in one dimension only is going to be relevant)
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"Within capability" might not be the only factor, though. Availability of staff, timescales, and economies of scale are likely to play a part?
For example, for nearly every organ builder today that has the capability of making their own pipework, they sometimes do, and they sometimes buy it in from the supply houses, but to their specifications. Provided the required quality can be met, why wouldn't it make sense to "sub it out"?
Another example: most of the pipework for the Liverpool Met - which is now being restored as a grade one example of Walker's 1960s work - came from a supply house. Even CC is known to have used them extensively!
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The case has both metal 32' stops in it.
Trivia time: It has been thought that this (2 x 32' on casefront display) makes it unique in the world, but there is at least one other.
https://www.danmillermusic.com/calvary-organ.html
And - of course - at least one other with two cases, each with a different metal 32' on display.
(If one was willing to stretch the definition of 32' on casefront display to include both open and stopped woods, then there was actually one case with three. It no longer exists)
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Possibly of relevance; there was a separate company Mander Organs (Tuning) Ltd created in 2002, which has since been renamed.
https://wintleorgans.com/about-us/
It seems likely that they had the big London organs at some point, but if they still do there is little suggestion on the website.
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Gloucester is apparently facing a "reconstruction", according to the "current projects" page of a well-known organ adviser.
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On the louder side of the Pedal -
When I read the spec - especially the introduction of what will apparently be a powerful new diapason chorus and reeds, prominently placed, to say nothing of the availability of some loud new solo reeds to be "coupled down" for a mega-tutti - my first thought was whether the Pedal would be able to balance it. It seems I've not the only mind this thought has crossed, since a new Open Wood no.1 on higher pressure will be added, and the existing "big" pedal reeds replaced with new, on the second highest wp in the organ. Given, as DB notes, the rather moderate output of the existing metal rank, it seems that much of the bass weight in the full chorus will come from these three new stops.
So I wonder, still, whether it will be enough. The "Royal Peculiar" effect, where the balance is OK until the triforium Bombarde gets going, is not an attractive one to my ears at least. I suppose it's all in the voicing and egress into the acoustic.
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Wot no Positive!? How will we ever have authentic Bach performances! 🙂
Keeping everybody happy is impossible and always will be.
What matters is integrity within the scheme, and the courage of its own convictions. That's what'll stand the test of time.
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Willis's twitter account, which can be viewed without signing up, shows that the Farnborough work is well in hand.
https://twitter.com/WillisOrgans
The nature of the Liverpool Cathedral involvement is also revealed - the restoration of the Tuba Magna including its return to the original wind pressure, no less!
I expect the end result will be very much true to HW3's intentions, and pretty spectacular, to say the least. ( Can't have the gloriously restored York Mirabilis hogging all the limelight.... )
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I rather suspect "colossal" refers to the acoustic volume of the proposed 32' stop, as opposed to its height.
So given that they're apparently referring to a reed, it can be mitred - as many are - and not actually require any more height than a 16'. The new "big" reed at York is an example - so as not to protrude from the top of the screen, whereas the full length of its much older brother is now clearly visible in its new placement in the aisle.
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That's a question to which there can be no black-and-white answer, as it is all a question of degree of sympathy and respect for what's there and of the particular situation
For example, did the Royal Albert Hall organ become a Mander, despite the fact that nearly all the mechanism and soundboards were new in 2004? In purely organbuilding terms (i.e. excluding tonal aspects) it is a Mander. However, because we mostly notice the case and console, and the tonal aspects, it is regarded as a H&H, or even, if you're the BBC, a Father Willis!
Did the hugely successful Father Willis transplant - with additions - to Leiden, stop being a Father Willis? Nobody who has heard it will be in any doubt!
Will the painstakingly reconstructed organ of Manchester Town Hall be more or less Cavaille-Coll than the instrument which was removed last year?
Next door to St. John's, one of the most famous organs of all was recently replaced with what's essentially a new instrument, but with all the old pipework and console.
Also worth bearing in mind that many of the most revered historical organs (Haarlem, Groningen, Alkmaar, St Jacobi Hamburg, etc) are actually 20th-century reconstructions, to a greater or lesser degree, of material lost either to the 19th-century romantic trends or to the second world war.
So, in my opinion, a relocation of the Brighton organ will inevitably involve changes to fit the space available and to speak effectively into the chapel, possibly additions to suit the proposed usage, and reversal of the HN&B changes. However, if done sensitively, perhaps drawing on the numerous examples elsewhere, it's entirely possible for the result to sound almost as if there always was a Father Willis in that building.
Also in my opinion, the principal firms have all shown in their recent work that they're very accomplished at dealing sensitively with historic material.
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10 hours ago, John Robinson said:
One day, hopefully, I shall have the opportunity to hear it in 'real life', when I shall possibly have the opportunity to hear ALL FOUR or the 32' stops (one at a time, of course) and which cannot possibly demonstrate properly their voices even on my hi-fi system!
It's quite clear, from the streams, that the auto level control on the (otherwise excellent) sound feed is working very hard indeed to compress the dynamics when the new 32' is drawn.
Which is a very good sign!
Apparently an in-person visit, or at least a gain-set-for-peak transmission, will be needed.
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Still available on YouTube as a replay.
And no fade-out - Sarabande for the Morning of Easter all the way to its peroration!
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Based on today's Festal Eucharist, admittedly only via YouTube, I have to say the rebuild sounds to be a triumphant success! The distinctive sound of that organ is still very much in evidence, but there is just more of everything, especially as the choruses build! Congratulations to all involved on a clever plan very well executed!
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"A little short of breath at times" is a rather kind interpretation of that recording, I feel!
For fans of SGH, quite a lot of the aforementioned Fugue State DVD/CD set is based around it; with a reasonable part of the documentary as well as the expected stop tour and performances. Even for that alone it would be worth the outlay, but there is much more to enjoy.
I've never heard the organ sounding so good, either in person or on recordings, as it does on that set. One can only imagine the splendour that a sensitive and full restoration could produce.
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I'll indulge myself a little more on one of the above points.
I think on these super-league ACC instruments the chamades and the Bombarde 32' are different sides of the same coin, with each being a balancing factor to the other.
I once sat through a recital at Rouen where the player - who shall be nameless - did not seem to grasp this, and regularly used the 8' + 4' chamades as chorus reeds without the 32' in action. The effect was almost painful. They are indeed fabulous reeds but for long periods, in chorus, the overwhelming mass of treble harmonic energy is draining for the listener.
When he was generous enough to also draw the 32' - usually for the final chord - everything snapped back into perfect focus and balance, and suddenly the effect was "I could drink this perfection all day" rather than "when is this going to stop?!"
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Similarly, the 10 2/3 flue quint at Toulouse is remarkably effective, giving a perfect grounding to mf fonds.
With louder combinations, underneath the pedal 16' reed, the overall weight and effect of the pedal is very satisfying in balance to the manuals, with much more of a 32' reed effect than many lesser instruments having reeds of that pitch.
It's just of course that here there's the real thing held in reserve for shattering, but still very musical, effect, and to provide a bass counterweight to the chamades.
Testament of course to the skill of the man and his voicers.
Gloucester Cathedral
in General discussion
Posted
My question is as follows:
It would seem to be something of a scaling and voicing challenge for the four significant reeds:
Bombarde
Posaune
Trompette
Tuba
which are each available at at least three pitches and - mostly - across multiple divisions.
No doubt the generous acoustic is going to help "smooth the edges", but ultimately each rank is going to be optimised for one particular pitch in either manual or pedal.
So James' ideas for how this challenge is going to be met would be interesting....