Brian Childs

But what about a completion project , Pierre ? The organ as originally conceived was to have had everything that is there now PLUS An Echo Division 23 stops, 19 manual and 4 pedal including a carillon to tenor C. That will not please PNCD. A Corona Section enclosed 11 stops, 9 manual and 2 pedal A West End Section 30 stops, Great 9, Swell 11 , Pedal 9 and the Trompette Militaire which was originally intended for the West End and not its present location A Central Space Accompanimental Section 16 stops , 6 Great, 7 Swell, 3 Pedal These divisions would have made the organ far and away the biggest organ in the UK and one of the biggest in Europe. (And before anyone else points this out , I will readily admit that size (ie number of stops) is no more a virtue in itself than volume - the ability for a solo reed to drown out full organ. I like the possibilities which large organs provide for good players but fully acknowledge that size also multiplies the opportunities for abuse !) As originally conceived the organ would have had a further 80 projected stops of which only one, the Trompette Militaire, (and that not located where it was originally intended to go) has ever materialised since the organ assumed its final form. For details see pages 468-480 of WL Sumner "The Organ" 4th ed 1973. Of course there is no realistic prospect of this work being done as originally conceived: the cost of the additions would equate to the cost of a major new organ of substantial size but I seem to remember reading somewhere an interview with Ian Tracey in which he did moot the possibility of adding some west end trumpets . Perhaps Richard can keep us posted on how the thinking is progressing? A west end chorus of LOW PRESSURE chamades might be an interesting addition, albeit not authentic. Personally, if I had the money, I would donate the carillon. But since I do not, all those driven to apoplexy by the very thought, can calm down for the moment. All they have to worry about is someone else with the same vulgar tastes AND money. Put like that perhaps they should worry. Regards to all. Brian Childs

I too have that video, and also the C.C. from Redcliffe. Have you seen the Thomas Heywood Melbourne Town Hall dvd?? the quality is very good as is the 2 channel stereo sound track. I saw him at York Minster last year, amongst many things, he played the Bach BWV 542, toooooo fast, and it got muddled up in the very generous acoustic, but hearing and seeing it played on the Melbourne orga, it was excellent, I can highly recomend that one. Peter Dear Peter, I do have the Heywood DVD and the CD of the repertoire as well. I would support your recommendation. I suppose the disadvantage of being a travelling virtuoso is that you can practise playing the notes but not playing the accoustic, and so you adopt a tempo that has been right for other venues but does not work somewhere with a more generous accoustic. BAC

[ Here's another one for you!...Francis Jackson/York Minster on either Alpha, or saga (beautifully pressed....), in 1964. Take a walk back in time and revel in the very closely miked Tuba, it's hilarious!!! [ "Twentieth Century British Organ Music" with FJ performing his Toccata, Chorale and Fugue and a Fanfare , not the one in G now generally called the Archbishop's Fanfare ?] I bought that in York in a shop in Micklegate in about 1970.

On the other hand, is there really any merit (or musicality) in being able to obliterate the rest of the instrument with single notes on a tuba which may sound as if it were donated by the Merchant Navy? Merit and musicality may not necessarily point to the same answer here. It could plausibly be argued that a solo tuba, like a town cryer, needs to be able to be heard over the surrounding bable. And in small doses the impact of such a stop can be undeniably exciting. Perhaps it is one of those experiences in life which we intellectually know we should not like, but secretly do ? Personally, I think a little goes a long way and such a stop would not be high on my list of essentials, but where they already exist in large organs whose players have other options at their disposal their removal would be wanton vandalism. I instance the Tuba Mirabilis at York and (though very different in tone) the Fanfare Trumpet on the Ulster Hall organ in Belfast. BAC

The first time I heard the Herrick CD was on the record player (and I mean record player - not stereo system) at home. I thought the reed used in the Mathias Processional was a particularly assertive orchestral oboe: my current view tends to favour the Trompette Militaire ! Of course Richard is correct that flesh and blood do not hear like metal and plastic and that all recordings are an artificial experience. But, like much of life, a good many shades of grey intervene between purest white and darkest black. Richard's concluding remarks above seem to me to indicate that he would believe it is possible to get a reasonable approximation of the sound heard in the building, through the use of simple techniques. I agree. Many of the recordings which I have of Hull City Hall provide a very good approximation to how the organ sounds in the hall, at least to me (and an additional problem is not only that microphones and people "hear" differently - different people hear "differently" and the same individual's hearing does not remain the same throughout life). But I also agree with Tony 's point : the majority of commercial organ recordings are made to entertain the buyers - whether they do or not is a separate issue. Recordings for the purposes of sound archives are one thing: there fidelity is everything; but when the objective is entertainment surely we can afford to indulge a variety of approaches, even occasionally that used on the LP "Organ in Close Up" recorded by Leslie Pearson on All Soul's, Langham Place with the microphones INSIDE the case . I wonder if Richard had this , admittedly rather unusual , approach in mind when he referred to "sticking a mike up the pipe's backside" ? All the best, Brian Childs

Unfortunately not. I hope it was extraordinary in the positive sense, and not, for example, because age has finally caught up with FJ ! BAC

So do I. I was merely providing information. Not expressing a personal preference, one way or the other. BAC

I wholeheartedly agree with what I take to be the thrust of Richard's point. I have long been of the opinion that any recording of an organ ought to come with a sketch map to show where the microphones were placed in relation to the instrument (and each other, if more than one is used), so that the listeners can know whether they have any realistic possibility of actually hearing the sound as recorded if they visit the building. This point is hardly new. I seem to have a vague recollection of a review by (Isla Tait ?) in the 1960s making the point that she wished to know if she was hearing the organ as she would if she were suspended 18 feet below the ceiling with her ears 6 feet apart, or something in this vein. If space on an insert is limited I personally would sacrifice the sometimes over lengthy listing of couplers and accessories at the end of a stop list in order to have it. I particularly think that such information ought to be provided as a matter of course in those recordings whose primary purpose is to serve as a memento of the instrument so that the focus is on the organ rather than the music. I know that some heartily disapprove of recordings of this type but surely no one is going to deny they exist and claim instead that all those recordings which contain at least 4 from BWV 565, Widor Toccata, Prince of Denmark's March (variously attributed), Guilmant (op 15), Boellman Toccata and Kark-Elert's Nun Danket are actually about a different musical vision ? However, unlike some who seem to have clear preferences for a particular approach to recording, I can live with a variety of approaches, including multi-miking, which can produce some spectacular results, as it did with Christopher Dearnley at St Paul's on GCOS No 17. But I do want to be told. Regards to one and all, Brian Childs

Thanks for that, very interesting about the Preston. Yes Peter le Huray did two Saga records at Salisbury, and fortuntately my copy at least of the Ad Nos is perfect, rare for saga issues which were generally horrendous!......it's a gem. Neil Collier did reissue a fair bit off the old Ryemuse EPs, and also located the entire Vista back catalogue that the late Michael Smythe did. That includes a whole wealth of Fisher at Chester, Wicks at Canterbury, Jarvis at St Georges Hall, Graham Steed playing Dupre including both his Symphonies at Westminster (gold dust) but What happened I don't fully know, but it would be good to see at least some of those gems back out. Cantoris did issue a record of Lincoln from Vista on their own label. Fortunately I held onto my turntable (a good one at that) and with it all my old vinyl, as I knew it would probably never see light of day. The saga issues were also located but nothing has ever been done of those. One remembers a superb recording of Wicks at St Pauls doing Messiaen Nativite, and the Huray records are both classics. Not to mention Hurford at St Albans and others. A great loss. Thank you for the information Richard. I am astounded I missed the Le Hurray Liszt at the time (I have the other items you mention) since being a student the 10 bob (50p for the benefit of any younger readers) that Saga LPs cost was about all my pocket would stretch to. Though funnily enough I never did buy Wills playing Vierne 3. Michael Smythe and I started to correspond just after the first batch of the English Organ Collection LPs (RCAs short lived response to the Great Cathedral Organ Series ) were issued and continued until his untimely death. I still have the letters. I started by writing to query the wisdom of the first batch of 5 releases containing 2 versions of both BWV565 and the Widor Toccata - Roger Fisher at Chester and Edward Fry at All Saints' Clifton - and in his reply Michael very tactfully pointed out that he was not responsible for the Fry recording and had had no idea that RCA intended to issue it ! Despite this we remained in amicable contact for the rest of his life. It would be super to have some of that stuff available in the more convenient CD format. In addition to the ones you mention there was Frederick Rimmer at Glasgow University's Bute Hall and Philip Dore playing Mendelssohn at Ampleforth. But what unissued treasures might there be ? Another label from that time was CRMS. I believe they were responsible for the original Kynaston recording of the AD Nos at the Albert Hall though it was issued on the Phillips Fourfront label. I heard Kynaston perform the Ad Nos in Beverley Minster with a friend who proclaimed the performance to be "better than Preston". So that recording should certainly be a candidate for restoration to the catalogue. There were also some very fine recordings by the late lamented Brian Runnett which they did: it would be nice for a new generation to be introduced to just how fine a player he was . It might also demonstrate that it is possible to make sense of Reger on an English organ. I have on another thread on this site related some tales told to me of the Lincoln Organ which tend to be on the disparaging side but I have always been impressed by Lincoln on record. I have a couple of Cantoris CDs of Lincoln - popular repertoire played by Philip Marshall after he had retired and presumably made with at least half an eye to gift shop sales. They did a couple from Ripon too, including at least one with the obligatory D mi and Widor 5 Toccata. I am starting to ramble and should shut up. All the best, Brian Childs

[ I have bought a few items from the OHs site, have you seen the videos of Ms Roth at St. Sulpice?? the quality is very of very dubious quality, but the information and the music he plays is of the highest quality, being a "non playing" organ lover, watching the way he manouvers round those 5 manuals is wonderful I have not seen these particular videos, since I almost never buy them. My first excursion into the video market was almost my last. Carlo Curley at St Mary Redcliffe - excellent videography, appalling sound quality, even making every allowance for the fact that your average TV speaker is not going to produce HI FI quality( even if you have a 42" plasma screen and all the other latest gizmos, which I do not).It was like standing and listening from the far side of the churchyard. Is the sound OK on these videos ? BAC

The memory of the old works well but slowly! Two further snippets have surfaced in my mind re the Lincoln Tubas. Apparently Dr Bennet, the organist at the time, had been a pupil of Rheinberger and thus had certain ideas about how an organ should sound. Also it seems that the equivalent stops at Hereford were used as some sort of model or pattern but without anyone making proper allowance for the difference in size of the two buildings. Sorry I cannot retrieve the letter at the moment or I could be more specific but I am fairly confident that is the gist of it. Brian Childs

================ Aha! THAT'S why I didn't understand the foregoing, hereinafter referred to as "your post." MM <{POST_SNAPBACK}> On the other hand those who do sums to 6 decimal points - I bet you used a calculator - might be thought to inhabit the "glass house" (of the existence of which judicial notice is taken) and should therefore refrain from throwing too many stones.

I think people generally agree that Lincoln is finer than Salisbury, and a lot more colourful. As to Canterbury, it is it's boldness and vigour that set it apart, and the swell,great, pedal, bit of choir including solo tubas at 8 and 4 remain of the old ( 38 stops, out of 52 "original" Willis/HNB) and convey this still. No "big stuff" came off beyond the 32' flue which was not Willis anyway. What Canterbury has that the others lack is like a crashing "vertical judder" to the sound, it sounds together, in a way that Lincoln is "splashy" and Salisbury just thin. There are also some wonderful pleading stops on canterbury, and the flutes are particularly fine. This is clearly one job that Willis did obviously take a lot of time over. Not having heard Lincoln for a long time and never having heard Canterbury live I cannot contribute any personal information to this debate. But I do have in my possession (although securely filed away so I am quoting from memory)a letter from Philip Marshall written soon after he had made Great CathedraL Organ Series no 18 there. Two of his observations have remained fixed in my memory over 30 years :- (1) the Culverhouse team who had by then recorded several Willis organs thought that Lincoln was a "dud", and the first one they had come across. The explanation seemed to be too much tone escaped up the central tower. (2) The Lincoln tubas utterly failed to come through full organ - Dr Marshall had come from Ripon where he apparently would have experienced no such a problem, even before the Orchestral Trumpet was added. Indeed these (Lincoln)stops had been referred to by "one local wit" as the "Lincoln Gambas" . Perhaps this is the other way of looking at the fact that these stops are apparently suitable for occasional use as a bombarde chorus added to full organ ? Brian Childs

To clear up the misconceptions that seem to be floating about Simon Preston has recorded both the Reubke Sonata and the Liszt twice. The first time was in the 1960's when the Reubke was played at the Abbey and the Liszt at Hull City Hall. The second time they were recorded together at the Abbey (Deutsche Gramophone 415 139 - 1 (1985) at least that is the date on the back of the CD case which I have beside me. The recording dates are given as September 1983 (Reubke) and March 1984 (Liszt).. These dates antedate the Bombarde reeds do they not ? Apart from Bach, the Liszt and Reubke seem to be some of the few pieces that people get to record more than once. Thus in addition to Roger Fisher with the Reubke, there is Nicolas Kynaston with the Liszt (Albert Hall , and Ingolstadt Munster) as also Jane Parker-Smith (St Francois de Salles in Philadelphia and also Ingolstadt, though I am not sure of that - it is certainly somewhere in central Europe). I was interested to learn about the Le Hurray recording of the Liszt of the existence of which I was unaware : I have his performance of the Reubke and Liszt's Weinen, Klagen recorded at Salisburybut the surface noise on the Saga recording is so bad (no matter what cleaning techniques are used) that it is difficult to appreciate the performace through the background - or perhaps more accurately foreground - noise. With the vogue for reissuing "historic performances" on record perhaps we could start a campaign to get some classic past performances reissued ? One I would like to have on CD is the Chorzempa performance of the Ad Nos at the De Doelen concert Hall in Rotterdam. Any one else got suggestions ? We could perhaps persuade Neil Collier at Priory to add additional strings to his bow, now he has broken the ice with the Michael Woodward series, and the Ryemuse EPs collection. Brian Childs

================ Are you a civil servant Brian? I had to read this five times before it made sense! No I wish: I would have had a much bigger pension! I am merely a humble lawyer (retired). I left out all the "herein before mentioned"s, the "whereas these presents testify" and various other catchphrases, but I grant you its not that easy to understand.MM <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I do hope MM does not turn out to be a lady steam train enthusiast ! But if we can be slightly serious for one moment, then there is quite a lot to be said in favour, and little to be said against, those with slightly more experience of life trying to pass that on to those with less of it. In this way people do not constantly have to relearn that the round wheel works better than the square one or that if you stick your hand in the fire it burns. No one requires the youngsters to listen and the evidence is overwhelming in support of the proposition that they do not ! No one wants to discourage anybody from following their own star, but the watch word is "informed consent" - based on knowledge and some assessment of the risks. After all quite close to where Pierre is can be found rather a lot of graves of young men who never had a chance to grow old because those in a position to know better withheld the knowledge that elan and dash do not easily prevail over barbed wire, machine guns and high explosive. If you know someone is going to go for a walk through a minefield , and you have a map which indicates the position of at least some of the mines, it must surely be kinder to give them a copy of the map than merely to wish them luck as you wave them goodbye ! You can always wish them luck as well as giving them the map and they will need the luck when they come to spot where the map is inaccurate as they surely will ! Brian Childs

[ ================== It means Piere, that 214 people have written 9.3457943 topics or replies to topics since August 2004. If 214 attend 10 organ-recitals per year, and donate £10 to each, the total budget before expenses, would amount to £21,400. In reality, it would be half that at best. So, even 214 people could not support ONE professional organist for a year. If we see music-making in business terms, it is obvious that in order to cover professional fees, costs (possibly hire) of instrument and venue, advertising, printing, telephone calls, postage, performing rights (etc etc), then one needs about £2,000 per event income...in other words, an audience of 200 paying £10 per ticket. Obviously, in a church, that cost could be reduced substantially, but it is still a lot of money if a sensible professional fee has to be paid. Even amateur events which involve orchestras or other ensembles, can have costs well over £1,000. I know, because I've done it. When the average audience is now 50 or less, even with top performers, (I have played to 12 people!), it is simply a non-starter. There needs to be a huge diplomatic effort on the part of organists and those who like organ-music, because people no longer go to church and never hear an organ except on radio, or incidentally as part of a choral event or an organ concerto etc. I once organised a fairly ambitious event, in which I hired an amateur orchestra, and themed the event as "pipes & strings." A Handel Organ Concerto, THE Albinoni, one or two substantial orchestral works and solo organ items based on strings...T & F in D minor, the Schumann no2. BACH Fugue (which I played very fiery and very fast, as it shoud be) a transcription of CP E Bach's "Solfeggio" etc etc. 400 people turned up, and we lost about £300....not a disaster, but a loss nevertheless. However, as a piece of diplomacy and musical education, it was good, and possibly opened up "hearts and minds" to the fact that the organ was still around and to be taken seriously. Twenty year earlier, a similar sort of event got an audience of 800, and it covered costs and made a slight profit. Of course, I commend Pierre's enthusiasm (perhaps optimism), but it is important to realise the scale of the mountain to be climbed, and to keep one's financial feet firmly on terra firma at all times. I couldn't possibly comment about breaking open the coffin during the "In Paradisum," but I would certainly advise against leaving a tremulant on during the quiter moments of funerals!!!!!! MM <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Dear Richard, As one Hull graduate to another I wish you every success with your chosen career. I sincerely hope it goes the way you want it to but you need to go forward with your eyes open : not tight shut . That means facing up to some of the problems mentioned by MM and Ronald in their posts and a few others they might have added, but did not. For example, how many organists have positions which provide them with an income on which it is possible to live, AND repay one's student loan AND save that extra amount for one's old age which the Government is soon going to impose (in some shape or form ) on your generation ? How many of these positions are genuinely open to competition and are not in fact stitched up by the Oxbridge old boy network ? Who you know beats what you know every time, and you can hardly hope to make it otherwise. Many parents want to achieve the most favourable outcome for their own children and will go to considerable lengths to achieve this: oxbridge behaves in a not dissimilar fashion. Ok, so you are reconciled to having a "day job" to provide you with those necessities of life which are required to keep you in a condition able to play. Where do you get one ? When I was your age many local grammar schools in towns with important churchs more or less had a teaching post reserved for the assistant organist and were happy to acccomodate him in their timetabling process. I have lived in Ulster for 30 years where we still have the grammar schools but not the churchs, so I do not know what the position is, but I would be absolutely astounded if it were anything like as favourable as it used to be in modern multi-cultural and increasingly non-Christian Britain. A living solely as a concert artist ? How many can you name in this country who can do that ? I shall shut up. I have no wish to rain on your parade and I do hope you achieve what you want to, but you will need a fair slice of luck as well as an ability and willingness to indulge in a little self publicity in order to make it. I hope you get the luck. Lampada Ferens.

I got my copy of this CD from the Organ Historical Society Webstore in the USA. I find their site an invaluable way and simple of acquiring items from countries whose language I do not speak well enough to risk ordering directly . BAC

Thank you for the additional information. Obviously if you leave people to find out for themselves that an event is taking place there are many possible attenders who will never find out. On the other hand publicity costs money BUT making use of a web site you have already is free to all intents and purposes so there is no explanation in terms of cost that I can think of for not making use of it. Being where I am I would not have picked up on this since I tend to skip information on London recitals because there is no realistic prospect of my attending, being located here in Ulster, and anyway I am too scared after 7 July. My mother would never visit me here saying she had been through one war and did not want to take part in another. Now I feel the same in reverse!

=============== Perhaps I was being economical with the truth, but my point was simply that the standard recital fayre is predictable. The Mozart K608 is certainly one which I have played a fair few times in recital. However, all the above composers are still dead! How many people ever include modern or contemporary works? It isn't all cacophony by any means, and I think I have heard the Francis Jackson "Diversion for Mixtures" performed once (by Francis Jackson and by request) and the Fricker "Pastoral" once. I'm sure some people do play it, but I've never once heard a recitalist give an organ-work by Petr Eben an airing, and I don't think I would ever have heard the "Victime Pascale" by Jiri Ropek, but for the fact that he played it at one of his recitals in the UK, many years ago. I do not think we disagree about anything fundamental. I have heard the Fricker played a couple of times and I think the Ropek once (by Jennifer Bate?) and Eben's Moto Ostinato (Graham Barber ?)(also according to an insert in Organists' Review Johannes Geffert played Finale from Sunday Music at Westminster Abbey on 2 August in their Summer Organ Festival programme) but there is certainly an apparent lack of music by living composers being programmed except for Naji Hakim whose name appears with a certain degree of frequency . Unfortunately what I have heard of his music has not particularly appealed. I suppose laziness is a factor, and also that there is not the same incentive to work at understanding something which is not immediately appealing UNLESS the composer has an established reputation so that the effort is likely to be repaid. What I mean is that in the visual arts I have to work at Turner in a way that I do not with Constable, but I know (in the sense of being aware of the cultural consensus) that Turner is a great artist and so I am prepared to put the work in to understanding his pictures. I think the same must hold good for music : modern composers whose work is not immediately accessible at at least one level (whatever hidden depths may be there to be revealed by further study) are not going to have the time alloted to them. But a lot of tripe is also being written, particularly in the sub French Toccata mode where Loud - Soft -Loud and a "tune" (though rarely a hummable one) in the pedals is all that is seemingly required. Kevin Bowyer has recorded several CDs of modern organ music by living composers. I have listened to them but they have not usually gone straight back on the turntable for another hearing. Would you recommend persevering with any of these pieces ? I suspect it may be necessary for a piece to secure a champion and appear on a CD recorded by him or her so as to become more widely known so that it can then be requested. On a different tack it occurs to me that part of the reason for the decline of the theatre organ is simply that a great deal of modern popular music hardly lends itself to presentation via the medium. In fact it could be plausibly argued that modern popular music has very little to do with music at all , if one understands music to be something which can be performed by a variety of different artists, and a great deal to do with the marketing of an image, so that reading from the phone book could at some stage be top of the pops. Of course there are always exceptions, but it seems to me that so much today is artist specific in a way that was not true in the past. Perhaps I am just getting old and grumpy but whilst I can quite easily envisage a programme devoted to the works of Lennon and McCartney, who is there today enjoying an equivalent following amongst the young whose work could be used ?

The organ of St.Thomas', Leipzig had both a "Vogelgesang" (bird song) register and a Cimblestern. Weingarten was almost the first theatre organ, and in 1746, Stumm had included a Glockenspiel at Kircheimbolanden. I'm sure there are many other examples of similar vintage. Technically, the first theatre organs were "straight" classical instruments, and didn't Fr.Willis install one somewhere? (Sheldonian?) However, to address a more serious point, even "light music" played on the organ now fails to attract more than a few dozen, unless it is Phil Kelsall doing his "Blackpool" bounce, someone of the quality of Simon Gledhill or one of the better USA organists performing. The decline now seems to have expanded to include the once vibrant world of electronic organ performances, which have now been totally dropped, it would seem, from Nigel Ogden's Radio 2 presentation. IN ULSTER WHERE WE ONLY HAVE ONE WORKING THEATRE ORGAN AT PRESENT THE AUDIENCES STILL REGULARLY REACH THREE FIGURES BUT THE ORGAN (EX -TONIC , BANGOR) IS INSTALLED IN THE ASSEMBLEY HALL OF A LOCAL BOY'S SECONDARY SCHOOL WHICH IS CLOSING SO THE ORGAN WILL HAVE TO BE MOVED. WHEN THE OTHER INSTALLATION WILL BE READY FOR PUBLIC USE OR EVEN WHETHER IT WILL PROVE FEASIBLE SO TO USE IT SEEMS TO REMAIN AN UNKNOWN QUANTITY. Only a few years back, I recall a conversation with Robert Wolf, the theatre organist, who said sadly, "The organ world is just dying on its' feet." SADLY AND LITERALLY SO IT WOULD SEEM. I KNOW THAT IN TERMS OF THE CINEMA ORGAN SOCIETY BEING IN MY 50S MAKES ME ONE OF THE YOUNGER MEMBERS SO AN INEVITABLE DECLINE IN MEMBERSHIP CANNOT BE LONG DELAYED. Now in my mid 50's, I'm just glad that I managed to sneak in towards the end of an era in which organs and organ-recitals (not to mention live theatre organ concerts) were still well-attended, often exciting and occasionally brilliant....the likes of Jiri Ropek, Fernando Germani, Francis Jackson, Flor Peeters, Jane Parker-Smith, G Thalben-Ball ...world-class performers who had a devoted following. Carlo Curley is something of a phenomenon, and perhaps his secret is an ability to welcome people genuinely, joke with them and TALK to them...he communicates an infectious enthusiasm, which people readily take on board. I'm told that in certain areas of the old Eastern Bloc, organ concerts can be very well attended, and certainly, there have been audiences of thousands counted in Budapest, for example. I've seen over 1,000 people at St.Bavo, and never less than 200 for a lunch-time konzert. The RAH re-opening, and its' extensive exposure in the Proms Season was no bad thing....they even talked about it on air. It seems to me, that the organ, as an instrument, is now boxed into two corners; one of which appeals to the elderly, and one which appeals to the musically academic. With a church which broadly (and in my view stupidly) attempts to ape "yuff culta" by placing old wine in new bottles, the organ has rapidly been displaced by almost any collection of instruments which can stir up the baser emotional responses of rhythm and superficial, repetitive melody and sequences. It's the same world as binge drinking, discos and rock-concerts, but with the added pretention of "the way" "the truth" and "the life." I WHOLEHEARTEDLY AGREE! ONE OF THE REASONS I LIKE THE BOOK OF COMMON PRAYER IS THE SENSE OF CONTINUITY GENERATED BY USING A FORM OF WORSHIP FAMILIAR TO THOSE WHO HAVE GONE BEFORE AND WHICH RETAINED A CERTAIN DIGNITY AND DECORUM. I SOMETIMES FEEL THAT ITS DISPLACEMENT SEEMINGLY EVERYWHERE HAS PRODUCED AN EFFECT NOT DISSIMILAR TO THAT PRODUCED BY THE ABOLITION OF THE CODE OF "GOOD MANNERS" INSTILLED IN THOSE OF US OF A CERTAIN AGE - THE CERTAINTY OF BEING ABLE TO GO ANYWHERE AND KNOW WHAT WAS ACCEPTABLE BEHAVIOUR IN A PARTICULAR SITUATION HAS SIMPLY DISAPPEARED, TO BE REPLACED BY WHAT ? However, organists must also take some responsibility for the decline. When almost every recital in Britain consists of, Bach, Vierne, Widor and Howells, one might be forgiven for thinking that the organ is an instrument for "dead" composers. They have also become like the endless repeats on TV...familiar, cosy, keep it in the club, let's not rock the boat sort of mentality. SURELY THE SITUATION IS NOT QUITE THAT BLEAK? GIVEN ALL THE EFFORT THAT CERTAIN PEOPLE HAVE PUT IN RECENTLY TO LEARN THE WHITLOCK SONATA THAT MUST TURN UP FROM TIME TO TIME ? SURELY SOMEONE MUST BE PROGRAMMING MOZART, ALAIN, FRANCK, AND MESSIAEN ? AND WHAT ABOUT BOELLMAN , GUILMANT AND RHEINBERGER. BUT I BEING HERE AM IN NO POSITION TO CHALLENGE THE ACCURACY OF YOUR ASSERTIONS, THOUGH I AM SUSPICIOUS YOU ARE EXAGGERATING A LITTLE FOR THE SAKE OF EFFECT. If I perform, which isn't often these days, I try to entertain a little. When I attend as a listener, maybe I don't want to be pious, reflective and high-minded all the time. Sometimes I want to chuckle, as I often do at Carlo Curley's more extravagent gestures, sometimes I want to get up and boogie to the Jig Fugue or a Petr Eben "number" and, with at least one piece, I want to be gob-smacked by the "show." I THINK THIS HAS TO BE THE CRUCIAL POINT. CONCERT ORGANISTS ARE IN THE ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY BUT THE WAY THAT SOME OF THEM SPEAK AND WRITE WOULD LEAD YOU TO BELIEVE THEY THINK THEY ARE IN THE EDUCATION INDUSTRY WITH A MISSION TO ELEVATE THE TASTES OF THE UNWASHED MASSES.WELL YOU CANNOT ELEVATE MY TASTES IF I WON'T GO, AND I WILL NOT PART WITH MY HARD WON "BRASS" TO BE BORED, DEAFENED OR TREATED TO 10 MINUTES OF SOMETHING WHERE IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO TELL HOW GOOD THE PERFORMANCE WAS BECAUSE THERE IS NO WAY OF KNOWING WHETHER THE NOTES ACTUALLY PLAYED WERE THOSE INTENDED BY THE COMPOSER OR NOT. THE FUNCTION OF THE CHURCH ORGANIST IS DIFFERENT, OF COURSE, BUT YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE SOLEMN IN ORDER TO BE SERIOUS.LOOKING AROUND ME I FIND IT IMPOSSIBLE TO BELIEVE THAT GOD DOES NOT HAVE A SENSE OF HUMOUR. HAVE YOU HEARD LYN LARSEN'S PERFORMANCE OF BWV 578 ON THE SAN FILIPPO WURLITZER - STARTS QUIETLY AND CONTINUOUSLY CRESCENDOS TO THE END WHICH IS IN NO SENSE QUIET - COMPLETELY INAUTHENTIC AND UTTERLY CAPTIVATING FOR ANYONE WHOSE PRIMARY CONCERN IS NOT HISTORICAL AUTHENTICITY. Ask yourselves which pieces really "rock and roll" and they are very unlikely to be British ones or German ones. IS THIS STATEMENT CONFINED TO THE HERE AND NOW , OR IS IT INTENDED TO APPLY TO THE LAST 150 YEARS ? IF THE LATTER, I THINK THAT HOLLINS, WHITLOCK, NORMAN COCKER'S TUBA TUNE, AND LIKEWISE THAT OF C.S LANG(OR IS HE BEING TREATED AS AN ANTIPODEAN) SHOULD QUALIFY FOR SOME SORT OF HONOURABLE MENTION . OR ARE THESE THE EXCEPTIONS WHICH PROVE THE RULE ? FOR THE GERMAN'S I AM STUCK, ALTHOUGH SOME KARG-ELERT WOULD QUALIFY SURELY ? There is an alternative. How many people know the Brixi organ concertii? http://www.musicabona.com/samples/su3741-2_1_01.mp3 http://www.musicabona.com/samples/su3741-2_1_08.mp3 http://www.musicabona.com/samples/su3741-2_1_12.mp3 Why can't someone write something as effective for the organ as the following, by Hurnik? http://www.hurnik.cz/music/Hotsuita%20Bigbeat.mp3 If you know a mezzo-soprano, how about these, by Klement Slavicky? http://www.musicabona.com/samples/up0059-2_1_04.mp3 http://www.musicabona.com/samples/up0059-2_1_06.mp3 Got a baroque organ? Try this little number! http://www.musicabona.com/samples/cr0217-2_1_08.mp3 “Angles on the organ case” - Radek Rejsek – from “A while with an antique organ” Got a couple of decent trebles? You too can be a language teacher! http://www.musicabona.com/samples/su3660-2_1_03.mp3 Pochvalen bud Jezis Kristus I AM GOING TO FOLLOW THESE UP TOMORROW WHEN THE DOMESTIC MANAGEMENT IS OUT. SHE WHO MUST BE OBEYED (AT LEAST IF ONE WISHES TO CONTINUE TO ENJOY EDIBLE MEALS SERVED ON A REGULAR BASIS) DOES NOT HAVE AN EQUAL ENTHUSIASM FOR MUSIC WHICH INVOLVES THE ORGAN. I think it's time we put "Entertains" back into "The Organist" The music exists, but do we have any organists who are not as dead as the composers they play? I MM <{POST_SNAPBACK}>