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MusingMuso

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  1. ===================== I was a bit starled by the detachment, but at least it's music as we know it for the most part. Perhaps the detachment is symptomatic. Best, MM
  2. ========================= When Cameron Carpenter isn't drawing attention to himself, he can be quite impressive, and not just technically. In spite of what sounds like a fairly predictable American digital organ, and rather poor sound quality, the following demonstrates a more serious (and musical) side to the man:- It's the circus-act mentatlity which upsets me, and which now seems to dominate his concerts. Best, MM
  3. ==================== I suspect the Olympics have something to do with it.....real time reporting and high pressure layout etc. I hoipe that's the reason anyway. MM
  4. Here is a blast from the past featuring Carlo:- http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/features/desert-island-discs/castaway/492d60fd MM
  5. ========================== This is how the theatre organ world has survived for years, the prinipal outlay being the fee for a professional organist. Others have often played for no fee at all. The problem with public halls is that it is cheaper not to use them unless it's a big earner, and the usual way of putting people off is to claim that the local authority cannot show favouritism, and that the hall has to be booked at the appropriate cost. Civil Servants are very good at stone-walling, and with listed buildings, they often let them get into such a state that they need to be sold but cannot find a buyer. Then it becomes a public danger and they pull them down. By doing nothing at all, they are achieveing two aims. Firstly, whatever the artefact is, it falls out of public perception. Secondly, the hope is that it will become a dangerous structure by the non-process of neglect, for which any local authority has the perfect excuse of being cash-strapped. Warrington is not alone.....there are others such as Bradford, Newcastle (etc), where the organs languish in a state of disrepair. But for the sterling work of Prof Ian Tracey and Ian Wells, the organ at St Geroge's Hall, Liverpool would have gone the same way. It may well be that the only effective way of getting anything done is to publicise, as much as possible, the existence of these important instruments, and to use whatever media outlets are available to us. Best, MM
  6. I know it's far too early, but I hope that we may open up a topic about our memories of Carlo. I'm sure he befriended and touched the hearts a lot of people, brought great joy, not a little comedy and a big hearted sincerity to all those whom he met. He was not only a great ambassador for the organ, but a great ambassador for all that is best about America, when all we seem to hear about are the horror stories. MM
  7. This is quite a personal blow, for I have not only enjoyed his recitals and happy banter, but spent time with him socially over dinner and at theatre organ concerts at the Gaumont State, Kilburn, in which he took great interest. The horrible thing is, that I was chastising myself for not attending one of his concerts over the past couple of years, and I had it in my diary to check out concert dates and make the effort to attend one somewhere. Sadly, it can now never happen and Carlo is gone. It's far too early to take it all in, but I know I will miss his whoop and occasional bear-hug, not to mention his incomparable Bach Sinfonia. Very, very sad and untimely. RIP my friend. MM
  8. ============================== Of course the Borough Council do not want the organ, because "culture" is now in the hands of a separate management "company" who wish to acquire charitable status. From what I can make out, true art and true culture has now been sacrificed to more "commercial" interests.....comedians, pop concerts and general light entertainment, from which they hope to generate a healthy cash-flow and rid the coucil of financial burden. You can bet your last shilling (5p) that the ambition is to create an entertainment venue rather than a concert/exhibition hall, which will involve heavy carpets, drapes, a swish stage, spectacular lighting and all the other things found in profusion elsewhere. The average charge for these "spectaculars" seems to be about £25, which is a lot of money for what is generally second or third rate "culture," no matter how much one may appreciate Ken Dodd, (now getting past it), Adam Ant (long past his best) and all manner of has beens and nearly goods. After all, there isn't a problem having municipal parks and gardens, if you get the local garden centre to organise voluntary "dig up and plant" festivals, where unpaid amateurs and retired folk also provide the spades, rakes, manpower and plants. It's a sympton of a cash strapped economy I'm afraid, but whether they could ever make culture in Warrington, (or anywhere else), "self sufficient" is open to debate. What is certain, is that the economic climate will dictate a culture of popularism and artistic prostitution, which brings me back to C-C, and I'm not thinking Cavaille-Coll! Best, MM
  9. ====================== Thank you for mentionng the death of Sir Bernard Lovell OBE. I was going to do this, but work prevented it immediately. The following is a splendid account of his life at the console, and also his friendship with the late Noel Mander. It is part of a series of videos about his remarkable life and work. http://www.webofstor...o=S&srId=273258 I was a little saddened personally, because at the tender age of 15, I unwittingly met the great man at Joderell Bank, and he was so kind and patient; happy to explain what interferometery was all about to a total novice. Unfortunately, I didn't know he was an organist and he didn't know that I had started to play the instrument at the time, which in retrospect, was a bit of a lost moment, but his charm and sincerty were not lost to me. Of course, being a man of the church, it was a source of trouble to him that his war-work, (for which he received the OBE), was key to the successful bombing raids on Berlin and elsewhere. It was not something which sat easily or comfortably alongside his considerable humanity. It should also be said that there remains a mystery about his life, in that he was allegedly targeted by the KGB in Russia, with the suggestion that they wanted him "taken out." It was something which Sir Bernard Lovell would never talk about, and it will be interesting to see if the truth ever emerges. So a long and brilliantly creative life comes to an end, in which we may rejoice and for which we may be grateful. RIP Sir Bernard Lovell OBE, FRS. (31 August 1913 – 6 August 2012) MM
  10. I just wonder what Cameron Carpenter can deliver which other organists cannot, apart from playing five or six lines of music simultaneously using thumbs, great pedal agility and an incredible, (if often flawed), technique. He can't do what Barbara Denherlain does as a jazz organist. He can't play as musically as Jos van der Kooy. (As well as many others). He can't match Jelani Eddington or Simon Gledhill as a theatre organist. He doesn't have the wit of Simon Lindley. He doesn't have the stage presence of Virgil Fox. He doesn't have the rebel element of Nigel Kennedy. What then, is the attraction? Is it simply that he can contort his legs and put in all the parts that organists usually leave out in transcription playing? Sorry, but I just find it boring after a while. In fact, he reminds me of the organi playing equivalent to Cecil B de Mille, who said to the composer of the film-score to "The ten commandments"...."I want it like Wagner; only bigger." I think it was Vaclav Harvel, the former President of the newly liberated Czech Republic, (a fine playright and poet), who defended good humour and laughter. (He knew how to enjoy himself). He went on to say something on the lines of...."The greatest danger comes from those of a deeply serious disposition and burning eyes." I think he was thinking of Adolf Hitler, but I wonder if Cameron Carpenter could ever look in a mirror and laugh at himself? Best, MM
  11. ========================= I know I promised, but the sun's gone to my head! So let's get this right.......it would be "they who sail under the sea in boats." Mmmmm..... Best, MM
  12. ======================= My last word, I promise! How do you reconcile the use of the word underwater. when for the most part, a diver or submariner is, (at least should be), between the seabed and the surface? English is a crazy language.....I mean, you can't immerse yourself in a ship, can you? In any event, the other term for a sub is a submercible, and technically, the crew are called sub-mariners ie:- under the sea; beneath the sea. ("20,000 leagues under the sea", and the song "Beneath the sea"). So if Captain Nemo had an organ aboard "Nautilus", was he a Sub-Organist? This could roll for years unless the moderators torpedo it. Best, MM
  13. =========================== The last one I met didn't dress like that at all. I got to know the late Kenny Everett when I lived in London, (not very closely I have to say), but his character "Sid Snot" was probably nearer the mark. Just for the record, U-boat men are "Those that go under the sea in ships." Best, MM
  14. ======================= When I was at school, we had an absolute virtuoso 16 year old who could play the Grieg Piano Concerto from memory. His technique left one breathless. He could also give a breathtaking performance of the Middelshulte "Perpetuem Mobile." We would gasp in awe at his "Ad Nos," while his 58 second "Minute Waltz" had us on the edge of our seats and holding our breath to the very end. That was the problem....we were dizzy through lack of oxygen, and every one of his performances should have carried a health warning. I wish people would recognise that musicianship is something quite different to technique, and actually, it is much rarer than virtuosity. You've hit the nail on the head John. Best, MM
  15. ================================= Starting with 'pcnd's' last statement, I absolutely agree. David Briggs is a fabulous musician who knows how to move and inspire people. He is, for me, the modern-day equivalent to Dr Francis Jackson at the peak of his powers; thoughtful, often very deep, virtuosic and always finding the perfect phrase, the crafted structure and drawing the listener into the music. I was outraged when the BBC booked Cameron Carpenter for the Proms, and I said as much on this board, yet I have respect for what he has achieved and for his abilities as an improviser and innovator. Technically, Cameron Carpenter has taken virtuosity to new heights, and I doubt that anyone has or will ever exceed his abilities in this respect. He is on a different planet to the late Virgil Fox, and I doubt that Carlo Curley would ever venture into such extreme virtuosity; possibly because it does nothing to improve the music. What exactly is the musical point of playing Chopin's more challenging passages on the pedal organ, if it isn't to draw attention to the technique of the performer? Furthermore, I just cannot understand his preference for digital instruments, which although impressive at their best, never really sound totally convincing. Is he suggesting, as I think he is, that an organ like that at the Bavokerk is somehow inferior to a digital instrument, just because it is "fixed to the wall" and relies on mechanical bits to make it work? As for his punk hair-style, there is a precedent in the ever unconventional Nigel Kennedy, but in his case, if you close your eyes, the experience is often beautiful and moving. No, it's the things I sense from his playing, from the things he says and manner in which he delivers them that worry me, and I genuinely fear for him. I don't think it would be appropriate or fair to expound further, except to say that I don't feel that he is a good ambassador for the instrument., whether it be fixed to a wall or plugged into one. As a final thought, perhaps we could usefully campaign for organists to be included in the next Olympic Games! Best, MM
  16. Well I certainly don't consider you stupid or dumb, and I'm sure everyone on the board would think likewise. You wouldn't do what you do amd achieve what you've achieved if that were the case. There's a world of diference between pulling someone's leg and hacking one off with a chainsaw! MM
  17. ============================ It's not expertise, but simple logic. If something goes down, it must first be up, and the only thing a ship can be up is either a river or perhaps a creek without a paddle. Of course, there are ships which jack themselves up on stilts, but I don't think that came into it. Now when it comes to knowing everything, that is an absurdity, and one of the principal reasons why people communicate is precisely the fact that knowledge shared is knowledge gained, and no-one can ever know much about anything....not even organ music. Now if someone says, "I've never understood that," what is the appropriate response if one happens to know the answer? Do you ignore their plight? Consider them stupid? Tell everyone else that they're dumb? Surely, the nice thing to do is to make light of it and share the knowledge? Isn't that what teaching and learning is all about, and if it is, why should anyone presume to teach if they are offended when corrected or informed of facts? In my own defence, I will forever be grateful for the fact that I was only ever a teacher very briefly...I hated it. I am also glad that I gained practical experience in engineering, and doubly glad that I got out before it all collapsed around me. I was an expert in only one thing, and that was being assigned or contracted ..... to numerous companies with financial problems and sorting them out, by getting to grips with the dynamics of how particular companies work or fail to work; sometimes involving the pleasure of putting companies on a firmer footing, and sadly, sometimes setting in motion their winding up. That expertise took me to three continents and involved possibly in excess of £1 billion, during which I gained extensive knowledge of so many different manufacturing processes, logistical systems, markets and the things which make companies function. There is an enormous difference between expertise and a good working knowledge of things, but the more one sees, the more one learns...and yes....I'm sorry to inform you that I did happen to spend time in Dorset and Devon on behalf of a marine engineering company!!! Best, MM PS: In my dotage, I'm a fairly expert truck-driver three nights a week. Does that count?
  18. ================================ If you re-read my last reply, I think you will read of the exact opposite to “music being everywhere.” While I welcome any initiative or innovative approach to music-teaching, such as the Leeds RC Diocesan drive to re-establish choirs, it is but one initiative with finite resources. The point I am trying to make, is that 50 years ago, music education and musical experience was enhanced by a ground-up movement: much of it amateur or at best semi-professional, but extremely worthy nonetheless. The further question I raise, is whether the top-down approach is actually effective, if at the grass roots level, there is little or no support? Permit me to pose a rhetorical question. Could the singing genius of the late Whitney Houston ever have been taught top-down, or was it a style of singing which grew out of her childhood involvement with black gospel music? What of the grass-roots brass-band movement, which with help from a few professional, (but mainly semi-professional or amateur), leaders/conductors, produced some of the finest playing talent of all time? www.davechilds.com Here he is playing “The flight of the bumble bee” on YouTube. He follows in the tradition of John Clough, (“Cloughie”) of Black Dyke Mills Band fame....some amateur he was! (He is also an organ-builder). I didn’t actually spend my childhood and youth during the peak years of amateur and semi-professional choral-music making, but I did experience the tail-end of it, after which it went into rapid terminal decline. This was the same process as that shared with Whitney Houston: amateur choirs striving for the highest standards. To hear an amateur Methodist choir sing Messiah, (even in quite ordinary industrial towns), was to hear something very special, and academic music apart, I think this was the background which inspired me more than anything else, notwithstanding the very fine school choir in which I sang. To put it simply, I soo learned that standards and achievements mattered, and to get there meant a lot of hard graft and dedication. I think I would be able to propose a compelling argument that the systematic destruction of church choirs and the withdrawal of public funding for the arts at local level, were probably two of the biggest attacks on nationhood of all time, with a thinly disguised political motive. My concern is that there may well be a political element in the application of the new national music curriculum, whereby people want to see spectacular results as if they were the same thing as getting Olympic medals. If that happened, it would be elitism of a new and different kind, but not necessarily one which would best serve the people or the communities in which they live. Of course, it could be that I am being unnecessarily alarmist, but outside the field of formal education, I see little hope of encouraging music at a local level, which was always an amateur, grass-roots movement; often of great brilliance. Still, I suppose an improvement in formal music education is no bad thing, especially if it spares me having to listen to kids imitate the “Gangsta Rap” of “What goes on in the back of my car? I took off her knickers and took off her bra.” MM
  19. ============================ You're annoyed aren't you? I can tell. MM PS: I think I came from the bottom of the sea....a bit of a sponge.
  20. ======================= Dear, dear, dear! You don't know much about maritime matters, do you? Sailing ships always sailed from safe havens, because even when stationary, they were vunerable to gales etc. Consequently, just about every major port was situated on a river, and the ships would go down to the sea on the ebb tide. Major ports in rivers include(d), London, Bristol, Liverpool, Hedon (not Hull originally), Newcastle, Portsmouth, Yarmouth (and all the other mouths of major rivers), Boston etc etc. A QI moment for you here..... Did you know that Howden was once a bustling port town serving the wool-trade and the abbeys? The river moved and left the docks high and dry, but the old docks are still visible. The port and city of Hull is named after the river Hull, not the Humber, because the Humber is as treacherous as open sea with very fast rip tides and open to savage gales, (being about 2 miles to 1 mile wide, depending on where you are). The port of Hull was actually a little tributary feeding into the Humber, and this is where the remains of the old docks are to be found. So there's your answer as to why they go down to the sea in ships.. MM
  21. Unfortunately, SL is in the South of France as I write, so he will not be able to reply immediately to my last post. In the meantime, I wonder if we could usefully explore some aspects of music teaching and schools provision, which may or may not benefit organ and choral music in church; presumably our over-riding consideration on this discussion board. Having scanned through the proposals for the national music curriculum, (which I believe come into effect in September), I see a lot of management-speak and what I can only describe as a pyramidic learning and teaching structure, but it’s a bit short on detail to say the least. The other which strikes me, is an absence of community outreach, (for lack of a better term). I cannot anticipate what reasons SL may have in suggesting that music teaching is better today than it has ever been, or that previous generations missed out in the last century. What I do know, is that 50 years ago, music was everywhere and youth involvement considerable, It was by no means restricted to church choirs, but I would acknowledge that private teaching was often at the core of encouraging children to take up instruments. However, it depends how we see “education”, because 50 years ago there were other avenues quite independent of the school sytem. Obviously, church and chapel choirs featured strongly, but that era was drawing to a close even 50 years ago. Nevertheless, it was from that particular background that many musicians emerged; most notably organists and choral conductors perhaps, but others who having been taught the basics, had branched out into other genres of music-making. It is, I believe, easy to overlook the second-tier of music-making, which included operatic societies, vocal unions, male voice choirs, brass bands, glee clubs and all manner of quality light-music. Of course, the teaching methods were sometimes rudimentary, and would probably have included tonic sol-fa, but the end results were often very professional indeed; especially among the ranks of brass band players. I think we underestimate the grass-roots level of extended education at our peril, because this is the thing which has almost died out, and no amount of core education could ever fill the gap. In any event, it would be economically unaffordable as a state funded venture. Of course, it would also be foolish to ignore or at least diminish the importance of multi-culturalism, which in the case of music, is particularly marked. Whilst you are likely to hear Bach and Mendelssohn in strongly Jewish communities, you wouldn’t hear the B-minor mass or one of the Passions floating out of the local synagogue. Nevertheless, there would be a certain common-ground, whereby communities of people interact, but what of other, newer ethnic communities, such as Afro-Caribbean, Pakistani, Indian, Eastern European et al? If music is a means of self-expression and part of cultural identity, it occurs to me that state education in non-religious schools must be inclusive of all these ethnic groupings and identities, and more importantly, would probably exclude (or at least fail to include) religious music of any particular ethnic origin. We often hear stories, (true or otherwise), of children who have never learned a Christmas carol, and others who have never sung ‘Baa Baa Black Sheep’. So we cannot ignore the fact that there is a political dimension to music-education, and in view of the limitations of funding, I wonder if, in spite of grandiloquent gestures and management-speak, the whole thing will not be very thinly spread, with the “centres of excellence” giving the illusion of unparalleled success and educational triumph. Considering this from a quite different perspective, if I were to attempt a series of music concerts/recitals at our church, situated in an increasingly grim West Yorkshire town, I would be lucky to get fifty people attending an orchestral or choral concert and possibly ten attending a pure organ-recital. Fifty years ago, such events would have an audience of three hundred plus and perhaps fifty respectively. Thirty seven years ago, I organised and performed in an orchestral concert in a town centre church, and I think we an audience of five hundred; making the event economically profitable. Thirty years ago, I tried the same thing and we had an audience of eighty, resulting in a considerable financial loss. Ten years ago, in a quite up-market town, the same sort of thing brought in an audience no larger than eighty; the event losing a modest amount of money. More importantly perhaps, any audience would have an average age of perhaps sixty years, and young listeners would be virtually non-existent. All this corresponds with the total collapse of amateur music-making in the area, with just one increasingly elderly vocal union left. We have no church choirs, no music groups, no concerts, not a single brass band and just a handful of would-be folk-singers who ply their dubious art in various pubs; mainly in the more fashionable and prosperous outskirts. I just wonder if the new national curriculum will not replace one type of elitism with another, where the best pupils are propelled towards the “hubs” and “centres of excellence”. Without support at grass roots level, what is the chance of music becoming a part of national life as it once was, and merely by the process of education? It’s a curious thing, but whenever we’ve had great music, it’s been because people have had something worth singing about. MM
  22. ======================= Well, I found myself rocking with laughter when I read SL's reply; not at the expense of SL I have to say: more recognition of a kindred spirit. I didn't actually fail the 11-plus, but I probably should have done; so utterly scatter-brained, hyperactive and disinterested was I. Fortunately, my failure at the actual written exam was rectified by an IQ/aptitude special test of some length, and I recall anticipating what the IQ and aptitude test was all about and what was required to get through it. I therefore worked out that 70% of my time should be "academic" in nature, 10% craft and 10% recreation....I passed with flying colours. However, the disaster continued at Grammar School. I was bored, inattentive, failed every exam, almost got booted out and eventually left at the age of 15. In spite of the fact that I was usually bottom of the class or close to it in almost every subject, I was a puzzling and rather consistent 1st in Music, Art and Geography. In retrospect, I was very glad that I left when I did. The interesting.....quite interesting....thing is that my teachers nevertheless inspired me in many ways, and having left school, I never wanted to stop learning. I just wanted to learn the things which interested me, which eventually meant, of course, that I had to learn the things my teachers knew I should have learned in the first place!! Oddball and mercurial in equal measure, I was totally self-taught as a musician and organist; the two probably mutually exclusive if Sir Thomas Beecham was right. Having established this curious background, I think I can state with some passion that I do NOT hanker for the educational past, with the exception of music. However, it wasn't just "music" which taught me the most valuable lessons of all. It was the very high standard of music demanded in the school-choir, which of course, I carried with me long after school. That enabled me to know the difference between getting music right and getting music wrong,(above all musical), and it has always been my best teacher. My Junior School had a fairly good choir, we did concert performances, but more importantly, we had visits from a professional symphony orchestra. I recall being enthralled by this. Grammar School was certainly more chorally biased, due to the legacy of Philip Marshall and his successors, but again, I had peripatetic brass lessons from ex-Halle man, Arthur Butterworth. Pianos was another study, but a private one, until my teacher rather inconsiderately died. Thereinafter, entirely self-taught prior to a Uni-organ scholarship! The other benefit of my education were practical engineering and crafts, which have been incredibly useful over the years, and pointed me in the right direction. In fact, I must be the only former uni organ-scholar who is also a class skilled, engineering fitter; though not an apprentice-trained one. From out of this bizarre and rather chaotic background, I somehow ended working in the field of legal and financial work, which must be as curious as an 11-plus failure with a PhD. (My brother got 4-O levels, and he too has a PhD and a string of letters which resemble a game of scrabble). Now please tell me WHY contemporary music teaching and musical education is BETTER than it was, because I can' imagine that the overall standard could ever approach what was required of me as a boy treble. I see lots of talented kids from the special schools like Wells Cathedral School and Cheethams, but not a terrible lot from your average comprehensive. Indeed, as someone who flew quite high in the financial world for 20 years or so, I reckon that a lot of school-leavers are almost unemployable, which tells me that the system is either very, very flawed, or their parents sit watching soaps all day long. As I stated previous, I am not an educationalist, but I certainly don't look backwards. So please EDUCATE me and hopefully prove me wrong. Best, MM
  23. ====================== I hope John is right because Ripon has always held a special place in my heart. A human size cathedral, nice people generally, a lovely little city and, of course, some fine music over the years. That apart, while musing about it overnight, I realised how easy it once was to establish really good choirs; notwithstanding the hard work and dedication required. "Wen aye wer' a lad", notice the Yorkshire. The Grammar School system was almost perfectly matched to establishing choirs. I know of many very fine church choirs which enjoyed a certain symbiosis with Grammar Schools, where the organist was the music master at the local school. It enabled quite obscure or backwater places to have fine church choirs, and often, a school appointment would be tipped in favour of those who could act as parish organist and choirmaster; sometimes as a dual appointment. How times have changed, and not for the better I suspect. MM
  24. I'm no educationalist I'm afraid, but I'll have a stab at the problem and probably get everything completely wrong....but here goes. I wonder if the core problem isn't that of "exclusivety", by which I mean the inability to be "inclusive" due to the constitution and funding of traditional choir-schools. I'm old enough to just about remember the famous Wandsworth School choir, under Russell Burgess, and the foundation of that school was the old, well funded, selective Grammar School system. The results were, to say the least, musically spectacular; the Wandsworth choir rapidly achieveing international fame and respect. Forgetting for a moment about bursaries, the Wandsworth model demonstrated that it was possible to run a superb choir within an exisiting school set-up, and certainly, places in the choir were keenly contested and carried great prestige within the school. A cathedral choir school is, of course, a little different, because the pricnipal aim is to encourage and facilitate DAILY choral-wervice music, which was never the case with a choir like Wandsworth. Without a dedicated choir-school in close proximity, that is quite difficult to achieve. However, there are again precedents, and I seem to recall that Liverpool, Bradford, Blackburn (etc) achieved fine music but outside the choir-school system. The whole ethos of the traditional choir-school was to enable a church or cathedral to attract and select the best and most talented musical youngsters, and the most obvious way of achieveing that was to offer an exclusive system with special emphasis upon music-making and music education; the fee paying system and endowments ensuring financial stability. The fact that many have struggled in recent years, suggests to me that the original concept has run its course, even though it continues into the present day with varying levels of stability.. With a spectacular voice as a boy treble, I have always been deeply grateful for the opportunity I had of singing in a very fine grammar school-choir, and to expand that into church choirs and events such as RSCM festivals at the local cathedral. That, of curse, was very different to providing daily choral music at a church or cathedral, and in any event, a school choir funded from the public purse cannot be sectarian or exclusive in any way; being open to children of all faiths and none. What did Ripon do before the choir-school was established? If my assumption is right, it must have been established when Dr Philip Marshall was at Ripon, and it was thanks to him and another music teacher by the name of Greenwood, (who I never knew), that my own grammar school choir achieved the heights. I never knew Philip Marshall, even though we were a bit like shadows chasing each other from time to time. What I enjoyed was the legacy he and others left, and which continued under excellent leadership after their departure. The more I think about this, the more I am convnced that the problem revolves around daily choral-music, and almost any alternative to a resident choir-school would make this difficult to achieve, if only from a logistical point of view, with day-school children possibly scattered at various points around the locality. Throwing an idea into the air, what about the academy status set-up? Surely, it would not be impossible to concentrate resources and have "associate status" for boys/girls younger than that normally found in academies. This would circumnavigate the problem of the current three tier system, which was never a problem in my schooldays, when secondary school started age 11. I shan't ramble on any more, but with the appropriate will, I just feel that there has to be an alternative means of achieveing the end result. Discuss! Best, MM
  25. Hopefully, it's not entirely sad. There are precedents to Choir Schools being incorporated into other public schools, and as a business model, it enables costs to be shared and reduced. At least the closure of the Ripon Choir School has more to do with finance than it has to do with hostility towards excellence in church music. I'm sure they will come to some sort of suitable arrangement at Ripon. MM
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