MusingMuso

Further to my tantilising snippet concerning Bach's interest in the musical directorship of St.Mary's, Gdansk, Poland, I thought it best to include an extract from the e-mail I received from Poland last night. It reads as follows:- "....Organ music in Gdansk in particular, or more broadly in Poland, could worth another article if you feel the amabition some other time. You might have allready come across polish organ tablatures in your research so far, such as Jan (John) of Lublin or Mikolai (Nicholas) of Krakow or also the Warsaw Tablatures. Less know but certainly anything but less valubale are the Oliwa Organ tablature which dates around 1613 or 1619, the Gdansk Organ Tablature dating to 1595, and the Pelplin Organ Tablature with 17th century works. Above that Gdansk had some productive composers over the centuries who produced some intresting musical pieces. I think it is little known that preserved letters from the hand of J.S.Bach include one letter around 1727-1730 in which he addressed a former school friend who has become a Gdansk resident and expressed his interest in becoming musical director at Gdansk's St. Mary's church. That's a whole new world to discover....." I think this has a distinct ring of authenticity about it, and the writer is certainly a good historian, having written extensively about the organs in the Gdansk region and with a very interesting web-site. Having dipped a toe into the East European organ scene, I have come to realise that it is fabulously rich in history, some wonderful organs and a great deal of living art and musical composition; to the extent that I cast all other interests aside, and spent almost three months pouring over everything I could find. I know frustratingly little, yet I continue to be amazed as I learn more. If people like Bach, then why don't they play the music of Seger? An American organ music specialist assures me that the contemporary Hungarian organ-composers are very, very good indeed, yet somehow, it isn't yet making much of an impact here in the West of Europe. It's good to be at the cutting edge of musical dsicovery, but I expect that far worthier "ologists" than I will eventually eclipse my feeble efforts. And then there are all those very French-sounding organs in Hungary....quite a surprise, to say the least! For those who like to hear improvisations, then there is a fine tradition of it which isn't French, and maybe I will post a few URL "pointers" to some fascinating examples as time goes on. MM .

============== Straight from Gdansk....last night. Fascinating isn't it? I don't think it is "rumour" by the sounds of it. This is no "cowboy" source, but as I know nothing much further, I shall refrain form comment until I am better informed. Apparently, the organ in Poland was known as far back as the 14th century, and there is music written for it. We know nothing do we? MM

[Various quotes:- = Hmm.... it is often difficult enough for organists to persuade other professional musicians to take the organ seriously as it is - particularly orchestral players. ..... it is a matter of fact that tonal percussion stops have been being fitted to organs for the last 3 centuries Now tuned bird whistles and a klaxon would be a little more over the top.... About the only right this gives me (but it is a right) is the right to vote with my wallet in the sense that no one can oblige me to pay (and certainly not £10 a throw) or even just make myself physically present even without payment in order to listen to what somebody else thinks I ought to like I have been attending organ recitals for close to 40 years now and the general trend in audiences has been relentlessly downwards. The only organist in my experience who has come close to attracting the kind of attendance which was once taken for granted for the Alexandra Palace recitals by the likes of Cunningham is Carlo Curley. Go figure ! Is it possible that the desire for professional repectability has lead to the creation of an ever widening gap between the wishes of the performer and the desires of the potential audience ? If so the normal economic principle of consumer sovereignty would indicate that it is the performers who will have to give way: the usual result of continuing to produce something for which the market does not exist is bankruptcy ! Sydney Torch playing Hot Dog would be one of my 8 Desert Island discs. ================== The organ of St.Thomas', Leipzig had both a "Vogelgesang" (bird song) register and a Cimblestern. Weingarten was almost the first theatre organ, and in 1746, Stumm had included a Glockenspiel at Kircheimbolanden. I'm sure there are many other examples of similar vintage. Technically, the first theatre organs were "straight" classical instruments, and didn't Fr.Willis install one somewhere? (Sheldonian?) However, to address a more serious point, even "light music" played on the organ now fails to attract more than a few dozen, unless it is Phil Kelsall doing his "Blackpool" bounce, someone of the quality of Simon Gledhill or one of the better USA organists performing. The decline now seems to have expanded to include the once vibrant world of electronic organ performances, which have now been totally dropped, it would seem, from Nigel Ogden's Radio 2 presentation. Only a few years back, I recall a conversation with Robert Wolf, the theatre organist, who said sadly, "The organ world is just dying on its' feet." Now in my mid 50's, I'm just glad that I managed to sneak in towards the end of an era in which organs and organ-recitals (not to mention live theatre organ concerts) were still well-attended, often exciting and occasionally brilliant....the likes of Jiri Ropek, Fernando Germani, Francis Jackson, Flor Peeters, Jane Parker-Smith, G Thalben-Ball ...world-class performers who had a devoted following. Carlo Curley is something of a phenomenon, and perhaps his secret is an ability to welcome people genuinely, joke with them and TALK to them...he communicates an infectious enthusiasm, which people readily take on board. I'm told that in certain areas of the old Eastern Bloc, organ concerts can be very well attended, and certainly, there have been audiences of thousands counted in Budapest, for example. I've seen over 1,000 people at St.Bavo, and never less than 200 for a lunch-time konzert. The RAH re-opening, and its' extensive exposure in the Proms Season was no bad thing....they even talked about it on air. It seems to me, that the organ, as an instrument, is now boxed into two corners; one of which appeals to the elderly, and one which appeals to the musically academic. With a church which broadly (and in my view stupidly) attempts to ape "yuff culta" by placing old wine in new bottles, the organ has rapidly been displaced by almost any collection of instruments which can stir up the baser emotional responses of rhythm and superficial, repetitive melody and sequences. It's the same world as binge drinking, discos and rock-concerts, but with the added pretention of "the way" "the truth" and "the life." However, organists must also take some responsibility for the decline. When almost every recital in Britain consists of, Bach, Vierne, Widor and Howells, one might be forgiven for thinking that the organ is an instrument for "dead" composers. They have also become like the endless repeats on TV...familiar, cosy, keep it in the club, let's not rock the boat sort of mentality. If I perform, which isn't often these days, I try to entertain a little. When I attend as a listener, maybe I don't want to be pious, reflective and high-minded all the time. Sometimes I want to chuckle, as I often do at Carlo Curley's more extravagent gestures, sometimes I want to get up and boogie to the Jig Fugue or a Petr Eben "number" and, with at least one piece, I want to be gob-smacked by the "show." Ask yourselves which pieces really "rock and roll" and they are very unlikely to be British ones or German ones. There is an alternative. How many people know the Brixi organ concertii? http://www.musicabona.com/samples/su3741-2_1_01.mp3 http://www.musicabona.com/samples/su3741-2_1_08.mp3 http://www.musicabona.com/samples/su3741-2_1_12.mp3 Why can't someone write something as effective for the organ as the following, by Hurnik? http://www.hurnik.cz/music/Hotsuita%20Bigbeat.mp3 If you know a mezzo-soprano, how about these, by Klement Slavicky? http://www.musicabona.com/samples/up0059-2_1_04.mp3 http://www.musicabona.com/samples/up0059-2_1_06.mp3 Got a baroque organ? Try this little number! http://www.musicabona.com/samples/cr0217-2_1_08.mp3 “Angles on the organ case” - Radek Rejsek – from “A while with an antique organ” Got a couple of decent trebles? You too can be a language teacher! http://www.musicabona.com/samples/su3660-2_1_03.mp3 Pochvalen bud Jezis Kristus I think it's time we put "Entertains" back into "The Organist" The music exists, but do we have any organists who are not as dead as the composers they play? MM

I learned a fascinating fact to-day. Apparently, there is a letter in Bach's hand which he wrote to a fellow musician who had settled in Gdansk, Poland (sometime around 1727-30). In the letter, he expressed interest in taking up the the appointment of O & C at St.Mary's, Gdansk. St.Mary's, Gdansk, was where the greatly enlarged 18th century Michael Engler instrument was destroyed by fire in 1976, after the blower caught fire; a great loss to organ culture, and the destruction of one of the finest organ-cases from the 18th century. Apparently, the organ of Olomouc Katedral, in the Czech Republic, contains ALL the original Engler pipework, still playable from its' own, original mechancial action console, but also playable from the huge 5-manual electric console which also controls all the additions of later years. Engler is reputed to have been on a par with Silbermann. The most magnificent sounding organ in the Czech Republic, I wonder if anyone has ever heard it? MM

================= I've earned money from it! Off-beat? In my experience, organists are usually on time for the opening and closing measures of each and every bar. MM

=========== I don't think it's very fair to refer to the late Conrad Eden as a fruit-machine. It may well be true, judging by the fact that he just walked away from 40 of us visiting the cathedral at Durham by prior arrangement, and we had to somehow fend for ourselves and "persuade" the verger to allow us to play the organ....but it's still not fair! MM

============== It probably hasn't been written because, as Pierre found out, it is an immense subject. Consider the threads alone:- The German tradition of Rover, Schulze, Reubke, Wagner,Ledergast, Buckholz, Walcker, Sauer, Schlag & Sohn etc etc. That was both regional AND international, with information even shared between Cavaille-Coll and his German contemporaries. The French tradition , which includes the English swell-box, the Spanish reeds, the Cliquot (etc), and which was taken to Hungary by Josef Angster. The English "tradition" derived of Snetzler, and insularly groping toward the romantic in the organs of Ward, Bryceson, Hill etc. Then comes the French input and the Schulze input....resulting in two radically opposing schools of thought, in the form of Willis, later Hill, then Thomas Hill, Walker, Michel & Thynne, Vincent Willis and, totally out on an aristocratic limb, the work of Lewis, and his "German" sound. The Edwardian organs of Harrison & Harrison, again quite unlike things which went before. When the whole thing travels to America, it all changes again, with the development of the orchestral rather than the symphonic organ....unit chests, heavy pressures in the extreme, the far and wide scattering of pipework, detached consoles as the norm, very advanced playing features....perhaps even the influence of the theatre organ. I haven't even begun to think of romantic organs in Holland, Belgium, Canada, Italy, Poland, the Czech region, Australia (etc) No Pierre, I doubt that the story could be written with any degree of accuracy or lucidity....it is just too big to contemplate being written in one lifetime, and no-one would ever publish such an enormous tome in any case. MM

================== What an interesting idea....the human-brain as digital recorder/sampler! Are you SURE Pierre, that you can remember what every organ you have ever heard, sounds like? Do you just THINK you can? After all, we recognise the colour of roses, but we think and dream in black & white. Then again, we hear Choral Evensong on Radio 3, and screech, "That's York Minster! That's St.Paul's etc etc" I guess there's something valuable lurking within each of us. I'll start the bidding....5p for Pierre's brain! (I hope this auction doesn't have a reserve price) MM

=============== I suspect Pierre, that the matter of Mixtures in romantic organs HAS been explored quite thoroughly, but with the exception of the ever pompous Audsley, it has possibly not been published. Oddly enough there is an interesting link between between high-romanticism and the new-baroque, in the shape of John Compton. He started out as an apprentice with Brindley & Foster, who had worked closely with Schulze, and from whom he probably gained his deep knowledge of all things mechanical and pneumatic. Although that particular company eventually went the way of factory organs (which also probably had a profound influence on Compton's production methods), Brindley's were very capable people tonally; especially in the early days. John Compton himself spent a great deal of time studying harmonics, and whilst serving in the armed forces in Italy, he didn't feel it necessary to ask permission of anyone, or show respect for old organs, when he started to experiment with organ-pipes; trying out all manner of voicing experiments. John Compton (and his electronic experts) made good use of this harmonic knowledge in pipe organs (variously church, concert and theatre) and in the production of early electronic instruments. The way in which John Compton designed the unit-extension instruments was extremely clever, and probably proved to be the most effective of their type anywhere in the world at the time. It really doesn't matter that his "Mixtures" are derived for the most part, because they still sound over and above the foundation stops. For anyone who wants to know just how good Compton upperwork can sound, they should go to St.Bride's, Fleet Street....their finest hour! (Sorry Paul, it's the best Compton of all!) Compton men formed the backbone of Grant, Deegens and Bradbeer; arguably the most knowledgeable tonal artists of the 60's and 70's. Making a personal contribution to the Mixture topic, I would suggest that English mixtures with a composition of 17,19,22 are among the brightest voiced such ranks anywhere in the world...certainly that is true of Fr.Willis examples, but they never "reach for the stars" and they fit in with the very Geigeny quality of the hard-blown foundation stops. By way of comparison, the larger Mixtures of Arthur Harrison were much more restrained, and if only those Great choruses were not so very loud, they might have stood the test of time. Interestingly, where the Arthur Harrison mixtures have been discarded and replaced, as at Halifax Parish Church, the end result is really not very musically satisfying, but some people just had it in their heads that "brightness" and assertiveness was required in Mixtures, when in fact, the very best Mixtures just tinkle away quite delicately, as the old Arthur Harrison ones did. Of course, the straight-line Topfer scaling at Armley is something else, where the celebrated 5 rks Mixture is not more than a note or two smaller in scale, is voiced "open foot" and set at the front of the windchest. The effect is like canned lightning, and like no other, but it really was a one-off, and few have had the nerve to repeat the idea elsewhere. MM

On the subject of "Shameless self-promotion," I thought I would share the following with everyone, which comes from the Xaver Varnus web-site archives. STEWART McKEOUGH Hot Wax IT'S THE SIZE OF THE ORGAN THAT COUNTS It's time for a change of tune. Easily slipping into the usual bump-and-grind-she's so-fine diva-miss-thang-woric-it-bitch lingo, I have been criticized for overlooking classical artists. Here you, girlfriends. Xaver Varnus, The Hungarian-bom organist who has played for George Bush and Pope John Paul II, is ready to tantalize the congregation and friends of the Metropolitan Community Church Of Toronto in a fundraiser for MCCT's organ - which evidently needs a transplant. Says Xaver Varnus: "My fart is better than MCCT's organ." The New York Times has called Varnus the Vladimir Horowitz of the organ. When I think of organ music, images of communion and funerals come to mind - not necessanly an alternative way to spend a Friday night (Come on honey, let's skip Woody's and go to an organ recital. Sure!) But Varnus's take on all things godly comes out honey-smooth. I imagined other instruments when there was only one, and I felt a calming presence envelop me after about 10 minutes into his new self-titled CD. Don't be scared, the mélange of Bach, Mozart and Albinoni breeds familiarity. Trust me, you'll know these pieces when, you hear them. Remember, big is better. Just ask MCCT. The recital will take place at 8pm on Fri, Feb 23 at St Paul's Anglican Church at 227 Bloor E. Tickets are $20. Call (416) 406 - MCCT. ----------- Xaver Varnus has that slightly wild Hungarian look; the sort that terrorised Central Europe in ions past...blond hair combed roughly through fingers, he could be a horseman, a fire-eater or even a human-cannonball at the circus...but he plays the organ. There are some fascinating sound-clips of improvisations to be heard at the following, plus a rather bizzare photograph: http://www.xaver.hu/oneletrajz/oneletrajza.html http://galeria.origo.hu/szebeni/sza05.html Enjoy! MM

================= Where did I say that? I was merely referring to "shameless self-promotion" as a genre. The Xaver Varnus site is a classic, and some of the off-site publicity pics are quite surprising, to say the least, but at least everyone remembers the name; the sole object of the exercise presumably. The joke Richard, was not on you or your web-site, but you really should get rid of the Metro!! MunchingMucho

================= A bit of self promotion never hurts anybody, apparently! (R McV 5/8/05) MM

================== I'm sorry, but as self-promotion it's very reticent and very British. First priority is to get rid of the Metro Gti photographs....no street-cred with that particular vehicle....hire a Dark Blue metallic Subaru Impreza with tinted windows. Get rid of the tie if you want to have designer stubble like Will Young...in fact....just get rid of the tie. There are far too many women in the photographs. People might get the wrong impression. I would suggest hiring a handsome male extra of Latin origin, and have him lurk in the background, just to add a touch of mystery. Always show photographs of adoring fans clamouring for autographs...hire them if necessary. You need lots of brooding looks and pouting lips....think Lord Lichfield and Jane Parker-Smith, but forget the low cut dress. My best advice is to make a careful study of Xaver Varnus from Hungary. He was voted the fourth most popular person in there, often wore ripped jeans and appeared on TV shows....organists CAN be celebrities! Of course, if you REALLY want to promote yourself, you will eventually need to adopt a wild, bizzare liftestyle and abandon church, with lots of "exclusives" for the cameras, as you pop "tic-tacs" and "smarties" into your mouth whilst going into discos. On the other hand, you could wear very sober suits, half-moon spectacles, M & S casuals and concentrate on being a really serious musician working on the fringe of the mainstream. Decisions, decisions! MM

I like Alkmaar's mixtures very much (before and after the restoration), but...In a Schnitger organ, where the foundation stops are what they are. =================== Aha! You mean the old Hagabeer ones! MM

I was once organist at a church which had a chancel divided instrument, with the Swell/Great and Pedal on one side, and an enclosed Choir Organ on t'other. Disaster almost struck when the blower motor burned out in the main section; causing quite a bit of damage to the mercifully remote area around the blower. With insurance being claims being considered, it was some time before anyone could decide what to do; leaving us with only the enclosed Choir organ to accompany singing in what was a very large Victorian church. The first two Sundays were hopeless, even though I clambered up and opened the rear doors of the expression box which formed the access to the Choir Organ pipework. A Victorian 8.8.8.4.4.2.8, with a scratchy added string among the 8's, a rather delicate 2' flute, and the sole climax reed being a Clarinet, a piano was a better option it seemed. Then I had an idea! I had in my possession a couple of ranks of pipes; given to me by an organ-builder, and both of 2ft pitch taken from an old organ somewhere. Both were 15th ranks, spotted metal and looked promising. I called my friend the organ-builder, and we measured up the rack-holes of the 2ft Choir Flute, and those of the 8ft String. A few hours later, and we had installed a temporary 2ft and 1.3/5, which with the octave couple and the foundations, sounded really rather good and proved powerful enough and bright enough to accompany a congregation. We had carefully stored the Viole d'Orchestra and the Flageolet pipes. Of course, the Terz ran out of notes at the top....but hey ho! Over the next few weeks, I carried out a bit of fine regulation to the temporary registers, and it all worked a treat from then on. In time, the main section of the organ was repaired, and things could return to normal, but until then, the new "Positive" division had held the fort, with the back-doors open and the swell-shades removed. They only returned to normal about three years later, when I left the church for another appointment; the assistant organist quite gutted when he heard the instrument as it was previously. Some churches have spent a fortune on tonal modifications over the years, but my little Heath Robinson conversion cost £17.34p in glue and felt! I'd like to bet that it could never be repeated! MM

I don't usually dabble in stop-lists, as they serve no purpose whatsoever, but as I have been challenged to come up with an enlightened design, I'll give it a whirl. Oddly enough, there are two instruments which have always inspired me as Anglican organs. One is a modest two-manual by Abbott & Smith, with comparatively rare tracker-action for the period, and the other was built by Isaac Abbott some years earlier; again with tracker action and a modest scheme spread across three-manuals. Isaac Abbot had worked with Hill, and although his choruses were definitely more substantial, the influence of Hill is very apparent. Acoutsically, the Isaac Abbot organ is what we are aiming for...robust, not-overblown, warm in sound and speaking into about a 1 sec reverberation from the Chancel. In fact, as there are almost no Isaac Abbott organs left in the UK, the style is actually quite similar to what Harrison & Harrison were doing before George Dixon loused it all up. So with that in mind, I'll propose something which might actually work for accompaniment and at least SOME of the repertoire. Swell Contra Gamba 16 (Bottom 12 notes unenclosed) Hohl Flute 8 Gamba 8 Voix Celeste 8 Principal 4 Ocarina 4 Fifteenth 2 Recorder 2 Sext (12:17) 2 rks Mixture 4 rks (19:22:26:29) Dulzian 16 Trumpet 8 Oboe da Caccia 8 Great Quintaton 16 Open Diapason 8 Gemshorn 8 Rohrflute 8 Octave 4 Spindle Flute 4 Twelfth 2.2/3 Fifteenth 2 Terz 1.3/5 Mixture 4 rks (19:22:26:29) Tertian 2 rks (24:26) Cromorne 8 Trumpet 8 (Stolen from my local PC, voiced by Rundle Jnr.) Pedal Open Diapason 16 (Wood) Gamba 16 (Bottom 12 from Sw, rest 8ft) Bourdon 16 (Ext) Violoncello 8 (Ext) Flute Bass 8 (Ext) Fifteenth 4 (Unit) Nachthorn 4 (Unit) Mixture 4 rks (Unisons Ext.from 4ft Fifteenth, Quints ext.from Nachthorn) (19:22:26:29) Trombone 16 (Ext) Trumpet 8 (Ext) Rohr Schalmey 4 ALL MIXTURES TO BE VOICED IN THE STYLE OF F C SCHNITGER, NOT HIS DAD!! (In other words, dull and gentle) Of course, mechanical key action, and a fully independent pedal would be nice, but expensive. The derived Pedal Mixture is a delete option, but John Compton could do miracles, and the derivations would not be noticed in contrapuntal music. MM

=================== I never suggested that all similar instruments sound the same; I thought I had made that point about harpsichords. What I actually implied, was that the MUSIC doesn't generally suffer when (for example) the Grieg A-Min Piano Concerto is performed on a Steinway, a Yamaha or a Bechstein. The same is also true of other instruments which share a similar design and period. Only the organ is expected to cover the period from circa.1450 to the present day, and even accompany choirs. Quite obviously, this is more or less impossible without considerable compromise; thus leaving open the need for "authentic" sounding re-productions of earlier instruments, or actual instruments which have somehow escaped "improvement." I don't know what this has got to do with pneumatic-action, which was the original topic, but let's stick with our gentle meander towards another subject entirely. Irrespective of action-types and organ layout, there seems to be a drift towards an un-healthy "Franglaisism" or even the outright pursuit of Cavaille-Coll revivalism, which really has no place in an English liturgical setting. There are even a few criminally insane, but well intentioned folk, who think that we should revive the Arthur Harrison or Willis type of instruments; though both have enormous musical shortcomings. There was the very interesting experiment at reviving the 19th cenury Hill sound, which Mander re-created splendidly at Holborn, but I suspect this will remain an interesting but worthy diversion. Exciting though Blackburn and Worcester are (the one being modelled on the other), there is, IMHO, but one instrument which really can do it all, and still stand apart as a wonderful solo instrument in its' own rights. I refer to St.George's Chapel, Windsor, which was "almost" a new instrument when Harrisons re-built it. It is a wonderful blend of the expressive, fiery French type of Swell, the noble English Diapason chorus, the expressive enclosed English Choir Organ, and a "German" Positive. It even has a Solo Organ, and a substantial rather than heavy Pedal Organ, in which the reeds, mercifully, do not rip the varnish off the choir-stalls. In so many ways, it was both a response to modernity AND a development of the traditional Anglican organ, and as such, it has stood the musical test of time. This is why I object so much to the many, generally unsuccessful, imports from Germany and Denmark, which I would regard as tonally inferior to the English organs mentioned above. As for copying Cavaille-Coll, not even the French are doing that,(even if a Dutchman does) and for good reason. The C-C organ is as specialised and regional as any Dutch or German baroque instrument, and it is a style which doesn't travel well within the context of Anglican worship. Now if people would only turn away from French romanticism and the ghastly modern perversion of the baroque organ in Germany, and instead, take a look at some of the better organs of Hungary or the Czech Republic, they may learn something. MM

================= You know, if one takes away the Mixtures, this reads like the stop-list for a large 19th century Harmonium, save for the Harrison (?) style Trombas which never served a useful purpose the first time around. As for the softer version, why on earth should anyone want a single Dulciana rank, let alone a whole tribe of them? I expect that Cesar Franck's "Cantabile" would sound delightful on it, but I think the world has moved on from French-romantic music a little. MM

============== Willan "blood-thirsty?" It wasn't blood........ MM

================= I believe there are two views of the organ which may overlap, but which remain quite separate. One is the view that they are wonderful examples of craft (even art), and the other that they are musical instruments which must serve the needs of music. As Worcester has caught the attention of many, this is perhaps a good example to consider. There are those who would subscribe to the view that the original Hope-Jones instrument should have been left alone, and merely re-furbished. This would be the antiquarian view, presumably. There are those who lament the passing of the Harrison re-build, which would reasonably represent the historical point of view, perhaps due to the association with Herbert Howells and the "tradition." There are those who could not wait to scrap it and get an organ which was different, for entirely understandable musical reasons, but without much regard to either antiquity or history. The organ is unique as a musical instrument, for not only does it belong to a whole gamut of different styles, it is also called upon to be a living, breathing (hopefully!), contemporary instrument in a way that is not required of other instruments. After all, most harpsichords are built much the same; albeit with specific national differences and perhaps additional features. Whilst some prefer the Flemish, the French or the Italian; broadly speaking, the music written for the harpsichord would not suffer dramatically if played on an instrument of a different origin. Square pianos tend to sound like square pianos, concert grands tend to sound like concert grands, and Eb Tubas don't sound radically different now to how they always sounded. Obviously, it is not possible to install a new organ every time music changes, or because liturgy has changed. Otherwise, we would have cathedrals containing nothing but organs nailed to every available stone-pier. There is, therefore, a very long tradition of organs being re-built and "improved" or enlarged and modernised. Only a very few ever survive to ripe old age, and this is how it should be IMHO. Arp Schnitger changed old organs radically, as did Cavaille-Coll, Harrison, Skinner and all the rest (dare we include Mander?)....it is also part of the tradition to do so. Priceless antiquity is what emerges when everybody has done their worst, and that is why it is priceless. Very few things are so good as to be priceless in their own time, but there are a few organs which are; at least tonally. Doncaster is;so too with Armley, Salisbury, Hereford, Liverpool and many others, at home and abroad. For every thousand organs, there is but one Bavo, Ste.Etienne, Alkmaar or Toledo. Worcester was an organ which simply wan't good enough to qualify for perpetual veneration, though Redcliffe certainly is. I think John Mander hit the nail on the head, by suggesting that what was very good should be retained, but that we should have the courage of conviction to start-over again when something is not good. The saddest thing of all is to see a masterpiece destroyed by whatever means, and that can apply to anything, from a burning Wurlitzer bulldozed into a pile, to a war-time bomb dropping on Dresden. It's perfectly clear and straightforward, but the problem is, we all have very diferent views about what constitutes a masterpiece, a piece of history or a truly musical instrument. That's why we cannot manage our heritage, because it is something we re-discover every time we get down to the last dozen examples of almost anything unique or exceptionally worthy. As for the ogan not having a proper place in music, that is probably more to do with the fact that the organ is regarded as a liturgical instrument, when most people never set foot in a church outside America and Poland. MM

================== I think a discussion about Hope-Jone's tonal ideals would be utterly pointless. They could be summed up with one word, which is mono-syllabic, and they bounce! The Hope-Jones ideals found their perfect conclusion in the field of light entertainment, which is where they firmly belong, to the further pleasure of all. I'm sure he would have been delighted to note that nowadays, the more adventurous entertainment-organists have managed to rig-up all sorts of sequencers and computerised controls as a means of rendering a far more accurate synthesis of the orchestra and the big-band. Give me a fresh Pizza, a bottle of "Bud", dancing cats (electro-pneumatic of course), pre-programmed percussions and music by Mancini and I'll show you a different version of heaven, stalking along with the "Pink Panther." MM