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DQB123

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Posts posted by DQB123

  1. I'm also not unsupportive of the work they do with young people, but I need more support, especially the likes of the ISM and MU which provide me with legal and financial advice as well as endemnity. If the RCo did that maybe I would rejoin, but only maybe!

     

    Jonathan :rolleyes:

    Ermmm well, they can give you a credit card.... and the financial advice would be NOT to use it! :P

  2. erm...loyal members got offered the opportunity to take out an exclusive RCO credit card. Does that count?

     

    Oh, I nearly forgot, and the chance to congratulate yet more deserving Honorary Fellows, for whom a lifetime's dedicated service to our Art has spared them the vulgar exigencies of transposition, score reading, figured bass, improvisation, harmony, counterpoint, history, composition...

     

    I wonder if things would be different if K.B. Lyndon were still Clerk? If prospective members couldn't demonstrate they owned a decent fountain pen, I think they were barred for life!

    Curiously the President-elect has decided to stand down due to some decision pertaining to the responsibilities of RCO Presidents....

     

    Doesn't sound too happy in the hallowed cyber-corridors of PO Box 56357 London n'est ce pas? :lol:

  3. Beloved Brethren

     

    Since this thread commenced on 1 November 2006, I checked back on the RCO website today, and I notice that the membership sub has increased and is a snip at a mere 76 quid! Our best efforts to bring the annual sub down to an affordable price have fallen (alas) upon ears deafened no doubt by endless persons desperately seeking to acquire letters after their name.

     

    Now don't get me wrong. I'd love to belong to the jolly old RCO; but being rather (ermm) tight-fisted, I am still wondering what I'd get for the dosh.

     

    Are there any developments since the Birmingham debacle to encourage one to remember the college in one's will? :lol:

     

    In short, what news the RCO?

  4. About twenty years ago, for two consecutive years, I trained an organ scholar to be not only a competent player on the organ but also a litugical church musician, experienced in all aspects of what a church director of music needs to do. He went off to TCL and then to York and is now a professional musician. All this I did in my own time and totally free of charge. Nobody - lay or ordained - ever even suggested so much as a thank-you let alone any payment.

     

    Having returned to that church as D-of-M two years ago I decided to try again and for the past 15 months I have had two more organ scholars - now aged 19 and 18 - one of whom is hopeful of going to Cambridge to read music this autumn. One in particular has exceeded all hopes and expectations in the way he has involved himself with the music and life of the church even tough he admits to being agnostic. They get lessons to the value of at least £810 (in practice rather more than that) per year each, totally free of charge as well as experience and training ina parish church music set-up - everything from playing at services to putting up numbers on the hymn boards. Again, the church is happy to take advantage of them - and has been very welcoming to and supportive of them but nobody has ever thanked me for doing this or suggested that the parish should pay anything towards the cost of their lessons.

     

    Yet this church likes to think it values the place of music in its worship and likes to think it is one of the wealthiest and best run churches in the area. I beg to differ on all those points and I am certainly not wasting my time reruiting any more organ scholars. They seem to want to ignore the amount of my time that is taken up on this venture and the fact that I am giving more than £1,620 worth of lessons each year without payment. No wonder there is a shortage of organists who are willing to be involved with the church.

     

    I emphasise that this is not an attitude particularly originating with the clergy; it comes as much as anything from the laity.

     

    Malcolm Kemp

    I guess that you need to ask yourself who you are doing all of this for. Is it for the church, the clergy, the laity, the two organ scholars in question, for Malcolm; or is it perchance for Almighty God? If it is the latter, then I suggest that you need not worry about all of the former... because the rewards for what you are doing/have done will be OUT OF THIS WORLD!!

    Q ;)

  5. But of course some of us are neither old nor awkward!

    I hardly think I was sniping at clergy, let alone in an endless way. Perhaps I've inadvertently touched a nerve? Not all clergy preach dull sermons - some are superb. My point was that no-one I know of has seriously proposed the replacement of a less-than-competent clergyperson with a blinking tape-recorder, let alone marketed a product specifically for the purpose!

     

    Yes, there are many less-than-competent organists out there, and yes, many musicians are awkward. But if organists are viewed as human jukeboxes, why are we surprised? The fact is that, generally speaking, the Christian churches of this country are investing next to nothing in music and musicians, and that, viewed country-wide, the standard of music in the average parish church falls far, far short of our best efforts. If I'm handed a 'more modern' hymn three seconds before it's due to be sung, and it turns out to be some dusty relic of the seventies charismatic movement, 'words and music' by some self-taught guitarist who thinks that an invocation of the name of the Holy Spirit is a perfectly valid substitute for musical ability, then yes, I'm going to be disappointed. And why? Because offering such third-rate meritricious nonsense in an act of worship makes me feel like I'm betraying Him who gave me the gift of musicianship in the first place.

     

    To me, it's common sense. Using pre-recorded 'music' in an act of divine worship has to be scraping the barrel, and we have to have gone seriously wrong to have reached that stage. It may be pragmatic to advocate its use now, but it's only deferring the problem until it becomes truly insurmountable. This is NOT sniping at clergy, many of whom I have the highest respect for. But a lack of musicians points towards a lack of investment in musicians and a lack of purpose about music. The solution may not be easy, but it is clear.

    Well all I would say is just try running a parish and see what you make of it....

     

    And I'd bet that it wouldn't be too long before you too were rushing out for Mr Mayhew's new ipodthingie! ;)

     

    (not that I have Mr Mayhew's ipodthingie.... )

  6. If this is how clergy see us, it's sad; maybe it's time more of us did something about it. Yes, it's a fact that there are organists who conform to this model; I know of some, but not all of us do, the same way that most clergy aren't control freaks. Almost certainly as usual it's the few that give the rest a bad name, while the majority just get on and do the job. So what can the average parish organist (which is how I would class myself) do something about it, i.e. change perceptions? Any ideas anyone? Or perhaps I'm wrong and most organists are awkward old b*****s. R.

     

    Or maybe most organists and most clergy are awkward old b*****s.

     

    But I'm not...

     

    :lol:

     

    Q

  7. But not all churches (or clergy) fit into the stereo-types you list and seem to take for granted as typical. For example I wouldn't mind music at our mid-week service and at our 8am service when no organist is available, but I'd sooner fly to the moon than get rid of a real live (capable) organist if one were available. And yes, we do allow free use of the organ to learner organists.

     

    I think that it is the endless snipes at clergy (assuming that we are all tarred with the same brush, that we all preach dull sermons, and walk roughshod over our parish colleagues) that do more harm than anything else and cause offense when it really is so un-necessary. Perhaps it's time for the clergy to start whining about ALL those organists who hate us, and who in any case don't bother to practice, and who insist on playing their Victorian hymns too fast or too slow or too high or too low. And who do all their power to be awkward when a <whisper> more modern hymn</whisper> is requested :lol:

  8. Hi

     

    Sometimes it's a case of "better than nothing" - it's not only country churches that have problems with musicians! I know of 2 churches in this part of Bradford that regularly use pre-recorded backings for services - one I know is a struggling inner-city parish with shrinking numbers, no musicians apart from a guitarist, and are maintaining a fairly middle-of-the road Anglican service - and they have thought through the recordings issue and do it pretty well. The other is an evangelical Anglican church - and the backings they used at the one service I attended were appalling.

     

    I've just taken on pastoral responsibility for a small inner-city church (in addition to Heaton) - there is a competent pianist (no organ since they moved out of their previous church building about 30 years ago) - but she's elderly and finding life increasingly difficult. If she's not there, then possible the daughter of one of the congregation will play - and failing that, it's down to using MIDI files. It's that or no music (a cappella really isn't an option).

     

    I've also used MIDI files here a couple of times, when I've been tied up leading the service and not able to help the musicians, and I've wanted a song or hymn that's beyond the very limited capabilities of my piano player.

     

    Sometimes, we need to take a pragmatic view - but that shouldn't stop us encouraging live music wherever possible - and maybe churches should be paying for youngsters to have organ lessons if we want organists in the future.

     

    Every Blessing

     

    Tony

    Hi Tony.

     

    I couldn't agree with you more!

     

    Q

  9. Hi

     

    Sometimes it's a case of "better than nothing" - it's not only country churches that have problems with musicians! I know of 2 churches in this part of Bradford that regularly use pre-recorded backings for services - one I know is a struggling inner-city parish with shrinking numbers, no musicians apart from a guitarist, and are maintaining a fairly middle-of-the road Anglican service - and they have thought through the recordings issue and do it pretty well. The other is an evangelical Anglican church - and the backings they used at the one service I attended were appalling.

     

    I've just taken on pastoral responsibility for a small inner-city church (in addition to Heaton) - there is a competent pianist (no organ since they moved out of their previous church building about 30 years ago) - but she's elderly and finding life increasingly difficult. If she's not there, then possible the daughter of one of the congregation will play - and failing that, it's down to using MIDI files. It's that or no music (a cappella really isn't an option).

     

    I've also used MIDI files here a couple of times, when I've been tied up leading the service and not able to help the musicians, and I've wanted a song or hymn that's beyond the very limited capabilities of my piano player.

     

    Sometimes, we need to take a pragmatic view - but that shouldn't stop us encouraging live music wherever possible - and maybe churches should be paying for youngsters to have organ lessons if we want organists in the future.

     

    Every Blessing

     

    Tony

    Hi Tony.

     

    I couldn't agree with you more!

     

    Q

  10. And lastly, I wonder how much envy may be interpreted in some of the criticisms levelled here on WM's performance? I agree that some passages were too slow (or over-emphasised), and the last chord certainly was way too long, but the overall level of virtuosity, skill and musicianship displayed by WM (and in his career to date) would be beyond the wildest imaginings of some of our criticising contributors to this Forum.

    Ermmm.... aren't you saying here what others have observed??? I re-ran the Sky+ recording just now and the final chord was held for about thirty seconds. Whilst I wish that I could play 100th as well as WM - it just seemed a little odd to me that the final chord was so lengthy. :unsure:

  11. I'm glad it wasn't just me who found that last chord curiously long. Very bizarre methought.

     

    :unsure:

     

     

    A sudden thought - - maybe WM discovered the lost chord.....

  12. When travelling in ordinary tourist mode (and not with a bunch of organists) I often go on guided tours of churches.

     

    I can't remember any church where the guide didn't say something like, "It's one of the best organs in the twon/county/country", "It has a very sweet tone", or something similar.

     

    Some guides are more technical, "This organ has 5,000 pipes" or "This organ has 25 miles of electric wire".

     

    What is the oddest information anyone has been given by these well-intentioned people?

    I once visited the Crystal Cathedral in Garden Grove, California and as there was a guided tour thought it would be fun to tag along. Eventually the group reached the Aboretum where the Aeolian-Skinner (Opus 1141) - 1951 of 4 manuals, 82 ranks plus 6 digital voices had been installed. This had come from a Christian Scientist Church (I think) which had been severely damaged in the Northridge Earthquake. Quite clearly visible are a couple of 90 degree mitred pipes, and one of the number spotted them and asked why they were different to the other pipes. The tour guide had no clue - but happily told us that birds had made a nest on top of them - so perhaps that was the reason for it being done in that way! A charming idea, no doubt, but I could not resist letting the cat out of the bag :) and telling them the real reason why!!

     

    :P

  13. I don't recall an LP of Preston at Westminster Abbey doing that march, was it Decca? I do recall a particularly scintillating performance by Arnold Blackheath or someone like that (so long ago) on a EP called "Music for Baptisms, Weddings and Funerals". As I recall, I think it was done at Hyde Park Chapel.

     

    R

    Was it Nicholas Kynaston at RAH?

  14. Hi I have made enquires about several redundant organs to the NPOR over the last two years never had a reply, and even if I had the organ would have been long gone. They are a complete waste of time.

    I can't say that has been my experience. :rolleyes: In no way were the NPOR people a waste of time, and correspondence was good, courteous and co-operative. From what I know there is a huge amount of work that has to be (and is being) done.

     

    Am I to understand that the NPOR is staffed by volunteers? And if so, then I'm not sure that any of us is in a position to snap fingers at them.

  15. I agree - our Cathedral organist likes to play it at the end of the Chrism Mass. I also agree that it isn't one of Mendelssohn's best pieces - but it is one of those gloriously vulgar moments (like some bits of Widor) that put a smile on the face on occasions that can get too solemn.

    I love it! :lol:

  16. Good.

    Tsk Tsk dear Father! There's so much to be said for getting the faithful to look up from their books and sing with lungs full of air - unlike those nasty people who frequent weddings and mumble through Praise My Soul, Make Me A Channel of Your Peace and Now Thank We All Our God! :P You could screw the fittings for the screen quite nicely to those organ pipes in the picture attachment to your emails (just as they did in the Pentecostal Church (once a proud Welsh Calvinistic Methodist conventicle) in Colwyn Bay ....

     

    I'm just looking for a place to put a screen in our Parish Church. :lol:

  17. Mine was on time, well actually I could see her at the west door 2 minutes early! And the nice parish secretary not only brought me the organ key over to the console on my arrival, but a cup of coffee too!! :lol: (Perhaps she thought I looked like I needed keeping awake?! :unsure: )

    Mine was a full half hour late - no apology. :angry: When 25 past the hour came round I went back to The Vicarage - to simmer in peace! After having kept the bellringers ringing for about 50 minutes, I told them to stop. The silence was SCREAMING!!!

     

    When the service finally got going I was so vexed sore, that I forgot the first hymn!

     

    But I did calm down after a while, and they all went away with a smile.... :lol: Service was through and I was home in 20 minutes!

  18. (SNIP) At my last church where the Vicar wasn't made of such stern stuff, if a bride was more than 10 minutes late I would simply stop playing and start up again with the wedding march.

    I would think that was not unreasonable. Another thought would be to put on a CD. That way you could go and make a cup of tea, and return to the console in time for the bride - and some cream cakes would make the whole event entirely more enjoyable. :)

     

    Q

  19. I used to play the organ at Holy Trinity Church in Llandudno where the Rector, one Derek Richards was a former Major in the army and a stern bachelor to boot! Fed up of late brides, he announced in the Parish Magazine that if the bride was 10 minutes late, the choir would be sent home - if 15 minutes late, both Rector and Organist would go home. This hit the local newspaper headlines, and e'er long a stream of journalists were buzzing around. The Bishop was visited by television camera crews with cameras rolling and Granada Reports came to interview said Rector (with organ playing in background). When asked about the bride's prerogative to be late, he snootily replied "the bride has no prerogative in this matter". It was a week to remember! There was also a confetti deposit - forfeited if said stuff was used! I don't think that he ever had to put his threat into action - the threat of it was enough.

     

    But every once in a while there can be a genuine reason for lateness. Two weeks after my own wedding, I was on duty for a wedding in Rhyl. I noticed that there was a huge traffic jam outside, but didn't pay too much attention to it. Stuck in the jam was the flower arranger-people who had the wedding flowers. The wedding had to be delayed until the flowers arrived! (A fortnight earlier and I would have blown my top -- but then I found out how expensive flowers are!) :)

     

    And then there was the occasion where my training incumbant had a wedding at which the bride arrived 25 minutes late in spite of a request for her to try to be punctual. Though he was less than pleased he never showed it, and after the wedding the father of the bride came to him to thank him for being so kind and patient. He added that his daughter had epilepsy and that as they were leaving their home (in good time) she had experienced an epilieptic fit and they had to deal with that... So I guess that whilst there are obnoxious and rude persons, there can be other things going on too....

     

    Q

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