john carter

Without affordable instruments, fewer young players will have the opportunity to take up the instrument. I think that is the greater danger to organ culture. I note with sadness that in London alone, there is no organ in the Barbican concert hall and a half hearted re-installation in the Royal Festival Hall. Without its "software" i.e. people to play and listen, there is no future for the organ in the UK. Clearly you believe that you alone know what is right for organ culture and I am labelled a danger if I disagree, so I propose to make no further comment. JC

So do I. I also find Savile Row suits and handmade shoes very appealing, but I can't afford them. Fine craftsmanship is also expensive to maintain. My church recently faced a bill of over £7000 to refurbish our old Broadwood grand piano. It's all very well having our heads in the clouds, but if the organ is to live on, other than in Cathedrals and Concert Halls, innovation is the only answer. JC

I have no objection to the Grote Kerk choosing to do whatever they wish, if they believe it is appropriate for their mission. Yes, I do believe instrument makers should concentrate on making better violins and pianos, because that is what our children will play. Harpsichords and viols are and will remain a minority interest. If the organ is to survive it has to become more affordable and more playable or the Classic FM wedding music CD will become the norm. Is that what we want to see? For the organ it is a matter of innovate or die. JC

This reminds me of the time that Rolls-Royce insisted on retaining drum brakes and cross-ply tyres - because they knew best! Why do you strive to stifle innovation in the apparent belief that what is historically authentic must be better? JC

Ech verstinn nët! Have I got anywhere near the correct language? I hope I didn't offend you? I only wanted to know if you liked the idea of a recording at Durham or not. John

Pierre, Did you mean Aaaaargh or Aaaaahhh ? English can be a strange language! JC

It was absolutely ghastly! It isn't just the speaker technology, but how you exploit it in an almost completely dead room. I can think of ways of improving it, but it isn't a topic for this board. JC

Yes, come to think of it, you are right. JC

Thank you Brian. Now you have reminded me, I do remember some of these, including one I dislike intensely! But I'm not sure whether they are all currently available on CD. Whatever people think about the Elgar, it would be interesting to compare different performances. In my opinion, a far more interesting exercise than the Messiaen, in which the style is so tightly specified by the composer and in some cases, the recordings made in his presence. JC

Thank you for that news, David.

Joking apart, is anyone able to check that Nigel is OK? Although it is probably a machine problem, I'm surprised that we haven't seen a follow up. JC

Barry, you appear to have added this sentence after I posted my reply. I do not see anything discourteous to our hosts in pointing out the shortcomings of what is real and present competition. I am sure that they realise they have a strong body of support for the traditional approach within the membership of this forum. JC

I think it is more complex than just the hardware. The main problem with an otherwise very fine new digital instrument I encountered at Easter was that it speaks at you rather than to you. It takes no advantage of the acoustic of the building or the reflected sound that is an inherent characteristic of a pipe organ and its case. Everything is effectively en chamade. A great deal of effort has gone into tailoring the individual attack of the notes, yet the way the sound waves build up and propagate within the building (what perhaps may be described as pre-verberation) seems to have been overlooked. JC

Thank you Vox, for saving me the trouble of writing out my list. You must be a mind reader! I think these are good suggestions, but would it be necessary perhaps to concentrate on one Franck Choral? There are certainly plenty of recordings old and new. Similarly with the Vierne Symphonies, plenty of recordings to choose from, but perhaps it would be best to analyse different performances of one Symphony. I'd add Latry, Sanger and the inimitable Cochereau to your list, not forgetting the recent BBC issue by David Briggs. Duruflé would be interesting, but Graeme Kay did compare a couple of versions in one of the CD review programmes last summer (Though he didn't include my favourites) I don't know how many recordings of the Elgar are out there, I have two - Herbert Sumsion and Thomas Trotter - but I can't think of others just now. Similarly I can't think of many recordings of the Reubke, but it would be interesting to compare Roger Fisher's 1970s recording with his recent one for Amphion. JC

Do I get the impression that it's not quite your ideal design then? JC

The Dover publications are early versions of the score and there are some significant differences from later editions, the last page of the Toccata from Symphony 5 is quite a surprise if you aren't expecting it. These editions are fine for those of us who are able to compare later versions and make handwritten amendments, but I wouldn't personally recommend them for a young organist. As I have written elsewhere in the forum, I use a Belwin/Warner Brothers edition which is similarly reasonably priced, well printed and bound. My copy of Symphonies 1-5 came from Chappells. I use Dover for 6-10 with many bits of manuscript pasted in - must do something about it one day! JC

Ah, you responded before I got back to amend my post. Agreed it is nothing to do with the cookie, but I was perhaps mistakenly under the impression that Mander's server kept a record. Certainly when I return home after connecting from elsewhere, I have to renew my login. Perhaps just a coincidence? However, let's hope we can suggest something to make Gareth's life less cumbersome. By the way, anybody with any suggestion as to why my (Creative) mixer panel only loads at startup on Tuesdays when there is an R in the month, I'd be glad to hear from you. Computers...pah...who'd want them. I say "long live the moving iron relay"! JC

I bow to your greater knowledge, but I think you may be mistaken on this point as my experience is otherwise. To me it is also an essential feature of board security to prevent several people using a single log-in. JC

I hate unresolved puzzles! Did you check your privacy setting and is a Mander Organs cookie actually being set? On the privacy settings, have you overriden automatic cookie handling on the "advanced" dialogue box? I have removed and reset my login a couple of times to see if I could spot the cause of your log-in problem and it has come back correctly every time. The Mander Organs cookie on my machine is due to expire on January 1st 2020, which suggests it should stay logged in for all practical purposes as long as your IP address remains the same. One less cheerful thought has just come to me - could anyone else be using your login, without your knowledge, from a different machine? It might be worth changing your password to find out. I certainly have to log-in afresh when I have been visiting my family and used their machine to access the site. JC

I hope you know the answer to that! It's an interesting discussion anyhow, food for thought. JC

I can go into HMV tomorrow and buy CDs by Paul Derrett, Nigel Allcoat and Stephen Farr. If we value Justadad's original proposition, surely any such project should stimulate the discovery of new talent hidden in our midst, not just provide a new business opportunity for established artists. I have a cupboard full of CDs that I wish I hadn't bothered buying, but which contain a single track that made them seem worthwhile at the time. I would personally like to have the opportunity to buy individual tracks that interest me, rather than spend £12 for five minutes within a seventy minute disc, most of which will only be heard the once. But perhaps we should hear the views of those who have contributed to the Organs and Organists Online site, including Musing Muso and Rev. Tony Newnham, which offers free downloads. JC

In this digital age, what are the pros and cons of doing this as a "download only" project compared with the manufacture of CDs? A kind of "OurPipe" rather than "YouTube". JC

Just out of interest, which page have you bookmarked, once you have successfully logged in? JC

I don't see how it can be IE7 that is at fault if you are successfully logging in to other Invision boards. I have had no problems using IE7 either before or after the recent changes once I started to keep my router permanently powered. JC

Definitely. And a gemshorn style rank seems an ideal choice. JC