john carter
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Posts posted by john carter
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The problem with modern hearing aids, expensive or otherwise, is the inherent shortcoming of all digital devices - delay. Any sound heard directly arrives early compared to that through the aid. I find the only answer is to remove my hearing aids before listening to music or playing.
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As far as accepting is concerned, I accept that Dr. Wyld was spot on in his comments. I object to the insincere scrable to find a cloak to drape oneself in "Divine Worship." Oh, please.
And I object to you saying that the technicians didn't care, when you are in no position to know. I will say no more on the subject.
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'Agree totally - the techno types didn't seem to be ready for whoever or whatever was about to need a mic. Starts seemed not to be anticipated and 'broadcast' choir balance was variable. 'Just as well the music was so very good - shame though!
A
I accept that the broadcast in question was a bit shaky operationally. What I objected to in Dr Wyld's response was that this was typical of the BBC screwing up musical balance. In general, I believe the technical and operational standard is pretty high.
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This is not about me believing that I can never be wrong: the statement which you made in an earlier post is sufficient to demonstrate a mentality:
"To suggest the the Vierne, the least important part of the broadcast........."
But thank you for the ad hominem comments.
DW
It was a Divine Service of Worship. For me, that was and always will be the most important thing. The closing voluntary, however grand, is secondary.
And yes, that is my "mentality" as you so charmingly put it.
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My participation in broadcast evensongs over thirty years as a Lay-Clerk or deputy has not produced any experience which has shewn me to be wrong in my view of how it is done, on the day.
Since you are not prepared to believe you can ever be wrong, there is little further to be said...
For those who think I underestimate Colin Walsh, I don't.
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You mean, surely, £145 x 5,000,000 = £720,000,000 - a snip!
As someone who has worked in a professional capacity in the field and witnessed dozens of times the 'circumstances' on the day and the lack of attention paid to what many would say are "details", I feel qualified to criticize. I do not ask for studio-quality, merely a realistic balance - which doesn't usually form a part of the BBC repertoire.
Rehearsals? A sound test is always done - or at least paid lip service - and I would like to think that the fact that Lincoln has been broadcast at least twenty times over the years might lead someone to keep some notes?
To get this point back on to the original track: Colin's performance was exemplary, The organ, however badly recorded, sounded grand and the registration was certainly not muddy or lacking clarity as was stated earlier.
DW
You know exactly what I mean about the licence fee, so your comment is sheer cynicism, as are your snide remarks about the lack of skill in "BBC Repertoire".
If you have, like me, spent your career as a broadcast professional - and I was not aware of you working for the BBC - then your remarks are even more unreasonable than I first thought.
To suggest that the Vierne, the least important part of the entire broadcast, can be successfully balanced at the end of the transmission, with just a sound test and old notes from previous visits to the Cathedral, shows a lack of understanding on your part.
In terms of the performance, I think we can agree that it was pretty good.
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I have not only a very' critical' rig but hyper critical ears: you're wrong. Not only is it not lacking clarity but it is entirely faithful to the requirements of the piece.
However, as usual the BBC has succeeded in screwing up whatever it can in the way of achieving any sense of balance: someone is constantly 'fiddling' - listen to the rapid fader operation in the first few notes and then the dropping of the level at about 56' (obviously worried that we might actually get some representative volume!).
DW
It's oh so easy to take a pop at professionals who work their socks off to bring you a wealth of high quality entertainment for the princely sum of £145 a year. Would you rather have had the signal hit the limiter as it made its way through a transmission network that is no longer part of the BBC? There is very little time to set these programmes up and quite likely no full rehearsal.
I think the guys and girls do a very good job and I wish they weren't criticised by those who do not take into account the circumstances on the day and expect recording studio quality done entirely "off the cuff".
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Does anyone know why EMI took Germani up to distant Selby Abbey for his recordings in the early 1950s, rather than to a venue nearer to London. Was it his own idea? Did he even know the organ beforehand? Maybe the facility fee was cheaper.
One possible explanation is that the Selby organ, having been extensively rebuilt by HNB in 1950, would have been in first-class playing order, unlike many large (cathedral) instruments in the immediate post-war period. The groundbreaking new organ at the RFH did not arrive until 1954, of course, and recordings started to appear soon afterwards.
Any thoughts?
JS
I may be mistaken, but I think the recordings were made at Selby in 1961. I am aware of some recordings FG made at the RFH and All Soul's, Langham Place in the 1950s.
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I am not so sure - the performance is still very fast - beyond what I would describe as musical. It is also reed-dominated. There appears, once again, to be nothing drawn above 4ft. pitch - unless, of course, the recording quality has resulted in suppressing most of the higher frequencies.
There is a limit to the information contained in the roll and no guarantee that the playback speed is exactly the same as the recording speed. What is recorded are changes in tempo rather than absolute tempo. Even factors such as the thickness of the paper can affect the speed of the machine on either recording or playback - or both.
As I understand it, a registrant is needed for the playback machine, so even if it were identical to the recording instrument, the result is unlikely to be exactly as the performer heard it.
The specification of the playback instrument is:
I. MANUAL C-c4
Principal 8’
Vox coelestis 8’
Viol d’orchestre 8’
Gambe 8’
Flöte 4’
Bourdon 8’
Klarinette 8’
Traversflöte 8’
Oboe 8’
Sesquialter II
II. MANUAL C-c4
Principal 8’
Vox coelestis 8’
Viol d’orchestre 8’
Gambe 8’
Flöte 4’
Bourdon 8’
Klarinette 8’
Traversflöte 8’
Saxaphon 8’
Saxaphon 16’ extension of 8'
Oboe 8’
Trompete 8’
PEDAL C-f1
Subbaß 16’
Flöte 8’
...so not much upperwork to be found!
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Does anyone know how I can get hold of organ CDs issued on this label? I have searched the internet, and can find only a couple of sites (Motette's own, and Klais organs) which sell the CD I am looking for. Unfortunately, I do not think either site (in Germany) will accept credit card payment, and I cannot find any seller in the UK. I believe that at one time Priory Records supplied Motette CDs, but there is no sign of that on their current site.
Try Presto Classical. They certainly have some Motette CDs in their catalogue.
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.....I definitely love his rendering of the initial Grave – and the Bassoon-Sound he finds for the bass is just stunningly orchestral!
Best,
Friedrich
I completely agree. For the first fifteen bars, I thought we were going to hear something really special and exciting, then it just lost me completely.
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Jean Guillou plays the Reubke at St. Sulpice
Recorded live in 1978
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVS8o5-F6Pc
J
Oh Dear! It's bit like having a reality programme to make over your home. Some nice rich colours, but it is no longer the place you recognise or want to live in. Sorry, I hate it.
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On the question of gift aid, readers who haven't seen it might be interested in this discussion with Barry Williams on another forum: http://www.abrsm.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=48073
Thank you for posting the link VH.
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As the subject of gift aid has been mentioned, can some wise person please elucidate what exactly is the can of worms surrounding providing a service that one is quite legitimately paid for and subsequently and quite freely donating a comparable sum back to the church that one was paid by (as opposed to say Oxfam or the nearest Cathedral), provided that one observes the usual pre-requesite that the amount of tax payable equals the amount reclaimed through Gift Aid?
Contrabombarde
I don't claim to be a wise person, but I think the confusion lies in whether it is a freely given donation or a premeditated re-cycling of the fee in order to gain a tax benefit.
In my own Church, the accompanists give their services voluntarily. I could, each Sunday, hand over £100 from Church funds and on Monday, that could be returned as a donation generating £20 gift aid. If there was never any intention for the accompanist to accept payment, but the money was handed over just so it could be returned in order to generate a profit, I would describe that as fraudulent (and immoral). By comparison, if a visiting organist were to play for a funeral and it was normal to pay a fee, I see no problem in that fee being taken and then given back as a donation.
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Really? In that case I am surprised that Barry, who is an HMRC solicitor, doesn't know this.
There is clearly a difference between a single instance and a deliberate regular practice.
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It has been interesting to read the comments after my (deliberately) provocative post. The point I was trying to highlight is the totally unsatisfactory nature of rewarding people by a combination of salary and fees (or expenses).
That the Director of Music of a Cathedral - which, to me, is a senior management post - should rely on extra payments to make up a decent salary is quite ridiculous. To be paid a fee for merely "turning up", smacks of the UK House of Lords. Such a senior post should carry a commitment to perform all duties that are necessary without additional overtime or fees, with the possible exception of claims for genuine out of pocket expenses supported by receipts. The salary should be at an appropriate level to recognise this position.
It is time to ask the question - why are some people wanting to use CDs or other forms of music at their ceremonies? The answer might be uncomfortable, but if our rich musical tradition is to continue, it probably shouldn't appear to be based on the principles of a budget airline.
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Thank you, Vox, for your advice. I did discuss this with the Church Treasurer but there was a problem; perhaps I should contact you with a PM to discuss it further. It seemed to me that it wasn't quite as straightforward as I would have liked in my own case. If I can arrive at a solution to the problem I will post it here in due course.
David Harrison
I think you have a wise Treasurer, David. To deliberately launder a fee in this way is tax fraud.
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The agreement here is that I have the right to provide music when it is required for a service. If a request is put in for someone else - or something else - to provide the music, I am still entitled to the standard fee. We don't allow the playing of recorded music, and although we might make an exception in special cases, such an exception would not be made without my agreement, and it would not prejudice my entitlement to the fee.
I think the above is pretty much standard practice. I, too, make my living as an organist, but I don't think that should make a difference to the general principle.
So, do I understand you are prepared to take a fee, having done nothing to earn it?
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... Those who know more about such things than I do (e.g. Harry Bramma) have suggested recently that the Harmonics is not merely, or principally, a step on the way to the Trombas, although it was probably not intended to come on until at least some of the Swell reeds were drawn. When one sees the sort of thing that Trost provided and of which Bach approved, one wonders if pure quint mixtures really are the only way.
Reading this, I suddenly thought, "I wonder what has happened to Pierre Lauwers?" One of the most regular contributors in the past, we have not heard from him for ages. I hope everything is OK?
Mind you, we hadn't heard much from pcnd5584 lately. Last night's exchanges brought back some much missed spirit to the forum, which I greatly welcome after some difficult incidents in recent times. MM has certainly found a good way to get people talking.
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You're just using that organ as a synthesiser, aren't you?
MM
Just like John Compton!
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I just knew that if I mentioned that I hadn't heard about copper organ pipes, there would soon be a comprehensive list of organs that have them! Thanks chaps
Are there any particular characteristics in the way they sound?
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On this forum, one thing tends to lead to another...
In MM's humorous piece, there was one line that caught my attention "... copper is never used in organ building".
Last year, I bought a copper mute for one of my relatives who is a trumpet player. I was immediately struck by the difference in timbre from other mutes, much warmer than other types.
I cannot think of any examples of copper organ pipes or resonators, but I have never stopped to question why that is. Can anybody explain?
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No-one's mentioned Thomas Trotter's new recording of the Elgar from Salisbury. Haven't heard it yet but am told it's superb.
It's a very fine performance indeed. I doubt even Lewis Hamilton could have done better in the Presto!
I tend to agree with MM on Sumsion's tempo; presto comodo says "a comfortable pace" to me, and I think that is exactly what it is.
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The technology is already in place to allow commentary and background music to be removed by the viewer especially as most programmes are now made with multi-channel digital soundtracks. It's just a matter of the broadcasters allowing the viewers to be able to use the technology so that a 'colour' button can control sound options on programmes. I thought the commentary wasn't too bad this time. In fact there were a few occassions when I was expecting some and they kept quiet!
The technology is certainly there, but comes at a cost. It requires extra bandwidth to provide the additional service, which would need to come from somewhere. I would have been unhappy if the outstanding quality of the primary transmission had been compromised to provide a facility that relatively few out of millions of viewers would use.
Suzanne Chaisemartin
in General discussion
Posted
I am sad to note the death of Suzanne Chaisemartin on 8th July 2017 at the age of 96. A brilliant performer and teacher - and a delightful lady!