JWAnderson
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Posts posted by JWAnderson
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On a 3m scheme, I'd have the harmonic flutes on the Great. Came across a lovely (english) 4' example on a Hele in Andover a few years ago - I think harmonic flutes are due for a bit of a revival, along with dulcianas.
Now, let's try combining the two...
Hmmm, I wonder what a Harmonic Dulciana would sound like?...
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(Of course there is one distinct disadvantage to leaving the swell box open.)
Two if you count dust from building works being spread throughout the organ.
JA
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One some instruments even this isn't possible. I can think of at least one electro-pneumatic instrument which had horizontal swell shutters that were not balanced and which closed whenever the instrument was turned off. If you left the swell pedals in the "open" position when turning the instrument off all that happened was that you were rewarded with an almighty crashing sound as all three swell boxes slammed shut ...
One way of getting around this if the instrument has vertical shutters would be to have a piece of rope or cord attached at one end to a reservoir and the other attached to the shutter rod, this would mean when the organ is turned off, the EPn shutter motor will still close the shutters like it normally would, but as the reservoir deflates it will pull the shutters back open slightly. However I don't know if this solution could work on horizontal shutters (maybe if they are balanced).
JA
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Yesterday I had to make a report on one of my organs in my diocesan charge. The organ could only be turned on (blower-wise) by the Churchwarden's husband lifting the two trap doors in the Vestry, returning to the organ and pressing "on" and then retuning to the Vestry where he took a mop to the the blower to get it going. Obviously the handle had magical powers as after a little time of him being like St George fighting the dragon in the pit the great machine started up. I am certain it is the largest coffee grinder in Christendom. The Mop & Pit
There was also a dyslectic engraver employed too - hence Salcional 8 and Gedacht 8 on the Swell.
Chuckles.
Nigel
I am not sure about the spelling of 'Gedacht' as I have seen it spelt this way on two organs I know quite well, then again could well have been the same engraver...
I've heard of a organ teacher who left a note on the drawstop of the Trumpet 8p saying "F off" meaning the bottom F was not working. Unfortunately another organist took it by another meaning.
JA
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And surely a normal cone speaker simply isn't capable of producing such low frequencies properly? This might be more successful (how many $$$ I wonder?)
I wonder which is cheaper: this or real pipes. On the plus side at least this could perform a double function if the church's cooling systems broke down...
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Are you planning what type and style of reed stop you want in the organ? Or have you decided that and are wanting the scale of each note so you can plan the layout of the soundboard?
CTT
I have decided there will be four reeds on the organ; Bassoon 16p on Pedal, Clarionet 8p on Great, Trumpet 8p and Hautboy 8p on Swell.
So yes I would like the scales to plan the layout.
JA
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The question of reed pipes scaling is a complex one, as there obtains
more freedom there than with flue pipes.
The bodies are there only for the tone, the relation note/lenght is
only secondary (you can build half-lenght, quarter-lenght or even
shorter bodies, for Regals like Vox humana etc). The same is true with
the diameters.
There are several referencies, for example Dom Bédos. This book is
one of the most important we have, written by a professionnal involved
with practical matters.
So he gives us data and facts.
But those are only an example, what was done in the second half of the 18th
century in southern France. This is NOT the organ for Couperin and de Grigny,
whose reeds were actually different. The Dom Bédos scales had at least as much
influence on the late baroque german organ as on the french one, and even
on Eberhard Friedrich Walcker.
A later reference was Töpfer, who gave a simpler way, with linear scalings.
He had not much influence on the german romantic organ, but more later,
during the 20th century, because his formulaes were practical for industrial
pipe-building (standardization).
The first edition of his main book is on-line for free here:
http://books.google.be/books?id=HCUWAAAAYA...;q=&f=false
After having downloaded the file, go to page 143 (169 for Adobe Acrobat).
If the link does not work, go to Google books and enter as search words:
"Die Orgel: Zweck und Beschaffenheit ihrer Theile, Gesetze ihrer Construction ...
Johann Gottlob Töpfer"
Thank you Pierre, this has made it clearer for me.
With regards to the diameter at the top of the pipe, would it be correct to say that if the scale was larger it would provide a darker tone and vice versa?
Joshua
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Hi everyone.
Over the last couple of days I have been trying to design a small two manual organ in more detail than usual working out pipe scales etc. I've managed to work out the flue stops, but my question is what sort of scale do organ builders use when trying to scale reeds?
I've had a search around the internet and various organ supply catalogues (Laukhuff etc.) but they only seem to have flue scales or the measurments of all the C pipes.
Cheers
Josh
P.s. Another thing I was going to mention was that I had seen some examples of reed pipes where the diameter at the top of the resonator stays the same right up to the top note, but also some where it progressively gets smaller. What would be the advantages of either of these methods?
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Why are so many organists obsessed with Tubas?
Malcolm
Well I can't say that I'm completely obsessed with them, but the Tuba at Christchurch being the first I've been able to play really caught my attention and it sounds great from the nave of the church.
Have to find some Tuba tunes to really try it out for next week though.
Josh
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Hi everyone!
After spending an hour holding keys and being slightly deafened while the Tuba was being tuned today at Christchurch Cathedral (NZ), this made me ask the question which Tuba in any organ members of this forum would think would be loudest.
This Tuba Mirabilis is the loudest in New Zealand, being voiced on 19 inch wind and I have to say it sounds absolutely fantastic, and to top it off there is even a Fanfare Trumpet sticking 'en chamade' out of the transept case! This aside though I suspect compared to some Tubas I have heard of from the UK, it may only come in on the list about 30th.
So here's a start:
0. Atlantic City Convention Hall - Grand Ophicleide 16/8' 100" (I'm a bit hesitant to add this one as I do not know if it can be classed as a Tuba or just a loud noise)
1. Liverpool Cathedral - Tuba Magna 8' 50"
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30. Christchurch Cathedral, NZ - Tuba Mirabilis 8' 19"
Josh
PS. I should also add just to annoy someone, there's even a Dulciana complete with Vox Angelica which can only just be heard from the console with box open...
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Interesting - I have just looked again and I cannot see this piece of information....
My mistake, I was getting confused between Llandaff and another organ.
JA
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Yes - the Pedal 32ft. Contra Salicional with its 16ft and 8ft.. extension at Llandaff Cathedral (although it has probably been dismantled and removed by now). I believe that this rank was conical, although it stopped short at G with the lowest seven notes continued either in stopped pipes or Haskelled pipes - I cannot now recall.
NPOR says it is acoustic from CCCC to FFFF. The one at Holy Trinity goes right down to 32ft C and is used in the facade.
JA
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An unusual pedal rank which was an attempt to combine definition and weight of tone was the 32/16/8 Spitzflute rank in the 1967 Walker organ in the Liverpool Metropolitan Cathedral of Christ the King. These distinctive pipes are on display down to bottom D (I think!).
As far as I am aware, this is the only conical pedal rank at this pitch in the UK, does anyone know of another?
DT
Well, it may not be in the UK, but the 3 manual H&H in Holy Trinity Cathedral, Auckland has a 32/16/8 Salicional unit which I think may be conical, but am not completely sure of this.
Josh A
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Was there not an organ somewhere in Norfolk, with paper and cardboard pipes?
This could be possible. There is an 1890 Kimball organ in a church near where I live that did, I don't know whether it still does, have a cardboard 4ft rank. I think this may have been replaced by a Principal 4ft though.
JA
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The proposed specification has recently been published of the new IVP/84 concert organ to be built for Auckland Town Hall, NZ by Klais of Bonn. The instrument is to have electro-pneumatic action and will incorporate the original Norman & Beard 32-foot front of 1911 together with the handful of ranks which survived the disastrously radical neo-classical remodelling by George Croft & Son in 1970.
On paper at least, the stoplist is thoroughly English - not an Umlaut in sight - apart from two exotic ranks on the Solo division said to be based on traditional Maori instruments: a Paukaea 8 (wooden trumpet) and a Kouaua 8 (ocarina) with pipes made of glass.
Does anyone have any knowledge of glass pipes and how they are made and voiced? Presumably the mouth parts, for example, are different from their wood or metal counterparts. It must surely be more than a line of graduated milk bottles....
JS
I have seen a picture of the glass pipes of the Kouaua on the voicing machine at the Klais factory and from what I can tell, they look like normal pipes but I cannot see the mouths unfortunately.
I think a email to either Klais or the city organist John Wells may give some information on this.
JA
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On the 1906 Norman & Beard at the Wellington Town Hall, all 4ft reed stops on the Gt, Sw & solo change to two ranks from G#44 to C61. I am not sure if they remain as reed pipes or at which point they change to flue pipes, although I will try to find out.
JA
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this is why your mobile phone needs a camera on it...
Good idea. My mobile phone does have a camera on it but being 3 yrs old now it doesn't take very good pictures.
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That reminds me of an organ on which I gave a recital many years ago. It was a H&H of a similar vintage to Coventry, but not in the same league alas. It was one of these where all the piston settings were set by buttons on a big switch board (On, Off, or Neutral - and couldn't Neutral be useful at times (the one advantage this had over the standard systems of today)). Unfortunately, the pistons also operated the couplers and the organist had these set differently on different pistons and not left on Neutral. He was quite forceful in telling me he didn't want his pistons changing, so I had a very interesting time of different couplers popping out at different times during the rehearsal. However, I did change them for the recital as this was just impossible, picked up my fee at the end, and scarpered before he found out!
I had a situation like this a couple of weeks ago when I played the organ (with setter board) at a local church for a school concert.
The organists seem to insist on having the couplers set on the pistons which I find really annoying.
Ten minutes before the concert I had to write down all the settings, just so I could set them to what I wanted and then setting them back afterwards!
Even then when I've been back to the church I've found pistons that I didn't set exactly back to what the should be (like Gt 5 with the 8' flute added), but do I really care?
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How would a Cornopean fit into the tonal scheme?
A very good question...
I was thinking I would probably have this voiced more towards a Hautboy, but whether this would actually be of any use I don't know. Either way I would still like to have a reed in the scheme.
JA
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How about this:
Great Organ
Stopped Diapason 8
Gemshorn 4
Great Octave
Swell to Great
Swell Octave to Great
Swell Organ
Open Flute* 8
Salicional* 8
Octave Flute 4
Cornopean 8
Tremulant
Swell Octave
Pedal Organ
Bourdon 16 - Probably not necessary, but 8' flute would have larger scale.
Flute Bass 8 (Ext.)
Octave Flute 4 (Ext.)
Great to Pedal
Swell to Pedal
Swell Octave to Pedal
* Bass Octave from Stopped Diapason.
Electric Action, with attached drawstop console.
All pipework contained on one soundboard (except for bottom of Ped BDN 16-8-4 unit.)
I am not sure how tuning of Cornopean would be achieved, since I would want to keep the depth quite small so there would probably not be room for a passage board.
The facade would use the GT 4' Gemshorn bass pipes, which would either be tubed off the main chest or have their own action.
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I'm surprised that so few consoles offer the option to save memory settings to removable storage, such as a USB memory stick. I would have thought this would be fairly cheap and would seem a very useful addition to me.
I think the Peterson ICS-4000 has this feature. Also with the playback system you can record pieces to a MIDI file and save it onto the memory stick, a similar sort of feature to the Notre-Dame organ.
JA
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Thanks everyone. Some pretty interesting ideas.
I'll try to get into the church this afternoon and see what it sounds like.
JA
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As a previous organ scholar at Shymphony Hall in Birmingham I have fond memories of lugging that piece of kit around. It was made at the same time as the organ (by Klais) and it has been used for educational purposes. Its a great toy, but I had to be careful not to run over any members of the pulic (as it´s on weels) - let alone members of this disussion board (cough cough!!).
Greetings from Austria
Jonathan Thorne
I have a sneaking suspicion that Klais are going to build one similar for the Auckland Town Hall, but I cannot remember where I read this or if they are going ahead with it.
JA
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Hi everyone,
In the next term for school music, I have to do a solo performance on the organ.
The piece I have chosen is the Fantasia in G Major BWV 572.
The only problem is the organ, even though its a 3 Manual, is not the biggest specification.
Here is the Speci:
Great Organ
Double Diapason 16 (ext. 8' flute)
Open Diapason 8
Claribel Flute 8
Octave 4
Mixture (15-19-22?)
Swell to Great
Swell Octave to Great
Swell Sub Octave to Great
Choir to Great
Swell Organ
Violin Diapason 8
Rohr Flute 8
Gamba 8
Celeste 8
Principal 4
Horn 8
Oboe 8
Tremulant
Octave
Unison Off
Sub Octave
Choir Organ
Lieblich Gedact 8
Dulciana 8
Flute 4
Clarinet 8
Tremulant
Swell to Choir
Pedal Organ
Sub Bass 16
Lieblich Bourdon 16 (GT)
Bass Flute 8 (ext.)
Great to Pedal
Swell to Pedal
Swell Octave to Pedal
Choir to Pedal
Any ideas of registration would be very much appreciated.
JA
The Organ Of St Walburge's Preston
in General discussion
Posted
Some interesting photos. Any idea who the original builder was?
Seems a bit of a shame that it is not maintained.
JA