John Sayer
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Posts posted by John Sayer
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I came across on once on the three manual house organ in New Hampshire. It was indeed a two-mouthed pipe voiced to undulate. The undulations struck me as rather unstable across the compass. Of course it may just have been a bad example; I seem to recall hearing somewhere that it is a difficult stop to make.
Johann Ludwig Trost was doing this sort of thing 250 years ago - e.g. the double-bodied Unda maris 8 at Waltershausen and elsewhere.
JS
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Does anyone know why EMI took Germani up to distant Selby Abbey for his recordings in the early 1950s, rather than to a venue nearer to London. Was it his own idea? Did he even know the organ beforehand? Maybe the facility fee was cheaper.
One possible explanation is that the Selby organ, having been extensively rebuilt by HNB in 1950, would have been in first-class playing order, unlike many large (cathedral) instruments in the immediate post-war period. The groundbreaking new organ at the RFH did not arrive until 1954, of course, and recordings started to appear soon afterwards.
Any thoughts?
JS
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I have no idea who JNM is or was, and frankly, I don't care if he was the personal organist to the Pope, but the man is/was a twit.
MM
Could it have been Jerrold Northrop Moore, author of Elgar - A Creative Life - the definitive tome on the composer's life?
Whatever JRM may have said, the Germani performance is still amazing, sixty years after it was recorded. Just listen to the clarity and drive of the pedal line throughout. He was, of course, organist to the Pope. (That said, I reckon he found the Selby Hill rather more exciting than the disappointing heap in St Peter's).
JS
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My predecessor as choirmaster at my church would often tell me about his time, during the 50s, as a chorister in the choir of St Gabriel’s, Heaton in Newcastle; the choir, run by his father, sang fully choral services every Sunday and there were the usual visits to sing services at local cathedrals, not to mention summer camps. Photographs suggest that there were probably 35 - 40 members of this all-male choir and it was certainly one of many up and down the country.
David Harrison
Old choristers here in Ripon in the 1950's (under Lionel Dakers and Philip Marshall) recall voice trials with boys queueing up down the south aisle of the nave waiting for their audition - and all that before the days of choral scholarships and the like. O tempora, o mores......
JS
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What does this tell us, apart from that even EH Lemare couldn't always keep a strict tempo? I found it quite fascinating, in a fairly horrible way, I must admit.
Best to all
Barry
Fascinating, if a little seasick-making at times. He starts the fugue at about crochet = 120, then brakes suddenly to around 100 at bar 46 in order to negotiate the more exposed pedal passages. What is more the articulation in the final pedal solo seems noticeably crisper than earlier on. And do my ears deceive me, or is he adding extra pedal crotchet A's in bars 104 & 106?
As always with player roll recordings, one always wonders how much post-production 'touching-up' went on. Take those player piano rolls of Gershwin and others, for example, where a glance at the keyboard shows them playing in about six octaves at once.
JS
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I'm unshamedly digging for information here in the absence of company records and first-hand knowledge.
Does anyone know the circumstances of the Compton Organ Co., following the death of Jimmy Taylor?
It seems to me that there is a considerable gap between about 1957/8 and the interests of the company being acquired by Rushworth & Dreaper in, I believe, 1964.
Does anyone know anything?
MM
I don't know if this helps, but I had lessons as a teenager in 1961 on what was one of the last, if not the last, of Compton jobs, the rebuilt organ at St Mary's, Osterley (Spring Grove) Middlesex. The nearby instrument at St Mary's, Twickenham was of similar date. Ian Bell worked on both, I believe, as an apprentice, so he may know more.
JS
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Organist Wayne Marshall live in Manchester.
BBC Radio 3 / Online
Tuesday 4th October 19.30 - 22.00 hrs
Live from the Bridgewater Hall, Manchester.
To celebrate his 50th birthday and to mark 15 years as organist of the Bridgewater Hall, Wayne Marshall performs a selection of his favourite works for the instrument including music by Bach, Liszt and Widor.
JS Bach: Toccata and Fugue in D minor, BWV 565.
JS Bach: Prelude and Fugue in C Major BWV 547.
Liszt: Fantasy and Fugue on B-A-C-H.
Rossini (arr. de la Mare): William Tell Overture.
Vierne: Final from Symphony No.1.
Saint-Saëns: Danse Macabre.
Widor: Toccata from Symphony No.5.
Wayne Marshall, organ.
All rather showy and noisy.
JS
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Aa-Kerk, Groningen - any of the stopped flutes.
JS
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It seems that I have been playing inverted mordents when I should have been playing trills in Bach's music! Presumably, this also applies to Boehm. I have recently being looking at Boehm’s Vater unser im Himmelreich in Anne Marsden Thomas’ Oxford Service Music for Organ and playing mordants and inverted mordants as (I thought) notated.
However, is this issue as black and white as the above quote suggests? And when did the inverted mordent make its first appearance?
All of Böhm's organ works have been handed down through transcriptions, ie.no manuscripts survive. The Breitkopf edition prints a moderately ornamented version of Vater unser and reproduces, in the Appendix, a highly (Frenchified?) ornamented version in J G Walther's hand, which also appears in other modern editions such as Faber.
I must admit I don't which one I should be playing. The Walther version is attractive, provided one can fit in all those extra notes elegantly and convincingly.
JS
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English Polyphonic Music. Choir of Magdalen College Oxford/ Bernard Rose. A CD remastering of an old LP. The sound quality is rather muddy by today's standards, but the performances are incomparably musical, with a genuine devotional atmosphere that almost seems a forgotten art on disc these days. A great reminder of what a fine musician Bernard Rose was.
I agree, it's my DID Number 1. If allowed only one track, it would have to be Tomkins' Almighty God, the fountain of all goodness - such hauntingly beautiful, ethereal singing with astonishing, hair-raising false relations.
Re-issued it was, but alas no longer available, as I understand.
JS
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Toulouse Cathedral is pretty scary - crossing the transept on a narrow beam 60 feet above the floor with only the flimsiest of hand rails.
JS
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I was in Amsterdam earlier this year and played at a church during the Sunday morning service. The very gracious lady organist there habitually started her morning with a cup of tea up in the organ loft - and was kind enough to offer me one also.
I tend to take water to church with me (particularly at this time of year - with the temperature reaching 35 degrees some days!) but always keep it at a safe distance from the organ. I tend to be rather discreet though when taking a swig - in both churches I play at, the consoles are in full view of the congregation.
I remember watching a documentary on Youtube filmed at Notre Dame in the 1980s, and one shot shows one of the resident organists, cigarette in hand in the loft.
I seem to recall a large ivory plate beneath the RH stop jamb at the Royal Festival Hall which read, rather inelegantly, "Definitely no smoking at the console" and which bore the marks of several stubbed-out cigarettes.
JS
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It seems to me, that plaving an organ in the nave at Selby, simply reverses the problem, and will render most music inaudible in the Chancel. (The St.Mary's, Harrogate organ is neither large nor particularly powerful by the way, but spoke into an excellent, spacious acoustic.....church by Temple Moore as at St.Wilfrid's further up the town?)
MM
By Walter Tapper, in fact, though almost as fine as Temple Moore's masterpiece a short distance away. At least the St Mary's organ has been saved from the skip, as has the carillon of 8 bells which will find a new home in the NW tower at Ripon Cathedral.
Over the last 10-15 years Selby Abbey have done a remarkable job in raising around £6m to secure the fabric of the building; it is a shame the organ seems to have been a bridge too far.
JS
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For those living in, or visiting, God's Own County during July & August .....
RIPON CATHEDRAL SUMMER ORGAN FESTIVAL
Six recitals on Tuesday evenings at 7.30 with interesting & unusual programmes
Admission £10 to include refreshments (accompanied children under 16 admitted free)
Outline programmes of the first 3 recitals as follows:-
Tuesday 12 July - Robert Quinney (Westminster Abbey)
Elgar (Pomp & Circumstance Marches 3 & 5)
J S Bach (Orgelbüchlein 1717 and Orgelbüchlein Project 2011)
Wagner, arr. Lemare (Siegfried Idyll)
Guilmant
Tuesday 19 July - John Scott (St Thomas, Fifth Avenue, NYC)
Mendelssohn arr. Best Overture to St Paul
Handel
Bolcom
Jongen
Jonathan Harvey (Toccata for organ & tape)
Vierne (Naïades & Finale Sym V)
Tuesday 26 July - Edmund Aldhouse (Ripon Cathedral)
J S Bach
Alain
Martin (Passacaille)
Duruflé
Franck (Choral No. 1)
JS
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OK, here we go........
Which is the best cathedral organ in the UK?
MM
Coventry, Chichester, Truro - in that order
JS
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Don't know whether it's true but I heard on the night that Warrington have agreed not to "tip it out" until a definite home is found for it. I'd like an expert comment on whether such an organ is suitable for cathedral work, after all it's very difficult to play without console assistants, RF had two although BS got away with one; no playing aids which a church organist would need as I see it. Discuss, as they say.
Which is more important? Preserving the integrity of this sole untouched C-C (or nearly untouched) survivor in this country or compromising that integrity so that it can accompany Dyson in D?
Can the cathedral organists be persuaded to forgo the comforts of pistons and sequencers etc and rise to the challenge of the array of ironmongery at their feet, with or without an assistant?
Another question is whether physical constraints in its new home will allow a return to Barker-lever action or whether electric action and a remote console are deemed indispensable.
This seems to me a unique opportunity to break new ground and (re)create something very special in an English cathedral.
JS
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A correction is needed here.
After being told, only recently, by Warrington Borough Council, that the Great Organ in the Parr Hall is destined to be dismantled next year, and not this year, two web-sites advertising this recital will eventually be amended to read that this MAY be the final opportunity of hearing this organ in the Parr Hall.
Never-the-less, this joint recital to be given by Roger Fisher and Benjamin Saunders will be an event NOT to be missed. Both of these Recitalists have a connection and affinity with this organ, so the quality of the music and music-making is assured.
Parr Hall has recently undergone a refurbishment and the results, including views of the organ, can be seen at www.posimage.co.uk .
Click on 'Latest Work' to see these pictures.
Tickets for the Recital on 17th June can be obtained at the Parr Hall Box Office 01925 442345 AND from www.pyramidparrhall.com
They are £10 and £7 Concessions.
The programme will in the style of the organ and consist of music by composers who were inspired by the Great Organs of Aristide Cavaill-Coll.
Thanks to your tip-off, I made my way over the Pennines last Friday evening and joined about 120 others at the 'final' recital. Thanks to David Wells's attention the organ seemed in good order and perfectly in tune. Roger Fisher's programme of 19c French works produced some ravishingly beautiful sounds (rich fonds, Gambes, Flûtes harmoniques and exciting reeds), including those in the very effective swell-box.
Let's hope the proposed translation to Sheffield comes about where the instrument should sound even more magnificent in a more generous acoustic.
JS
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Is anyone aware of scholarly research on the subject of manual key widths, as measured, say, by octave spans?
On a visit to Chopin's birthplace at Zelazowa Wola, where there is one of his pianos, it was explained that the key spacing was slightly narrow than the modern standard, with the result that the tenths and other big spans in many of his works were more easily managed than on a modern concert grand.
JS
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Well here's a genuine treat for all lovers of English organ-music, which I stumbled across almost by accident:-
http://www.youtube.com/user/Theodopolis?bl.../48/vhK_XEdSaNQ
After God knows how many years, the penny has finally dropped about the Elgar Sonata.......I've heard a PROPER rendition of it for the first time....wonderful stuff!
It's interesting that Herbert Sumsion did the Elgar in one take.
Enjoy!
MM
Indeed - Sumsion's performance is surely the most idiomatic, naturally musical one could wish for - and a glorious rolling sound from the 1920 H&H with its stonking Ophicleide 16. I bought the LP when it first came out in 1965, my first organ disc. It was re-issued by EMI Classics in 1996 (CDM 5 65594 2) as a filler to an equally glorious account of Elgar choral works by the Worcester Choir under Christopher Robinson, rightly acclaimed ever since for the miraculously beautiful sound of the boy trebles. A CD to treasure.
JS
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Anyone who doubts that most European organ builders have lost the plot about organ cases (RAM?, Basel? Jesus? Stuttgart?), should perhaps hightail it down to Trier, on the Belgisch/Lux/German border,where they are displaying the results of a competition for a new big organ in the Constantine Basilica, an enormous and beautiful Roman building (St Albans upon St Albans?), now used as Trier's principal protestant church.
The winning entry is not unpleasant, but it has no character at all. The second place went to a world-famous British architectural practice (I'm ashamed to say). This design would have done serious harm to the building, and would have been worse than the worst designs of 1955. The third place went to an architectural practice named Merz....I,m not making this up.
Yes, all the competitors had professional organ-builders on board.
And all this a hundred yards away from one of my very favourite post-war organ cases in the Dom (Klais , designed by Joseph Schaefer, I think).
I agree the new design does look a bit anodyne - as does the case of the existing Schuke organ which is to remain as a choir organ - but, in a vast, austerely plain romanesque space like this, the last thing you need is an organ case which draws undue attention to itself - eine Geschmacksache, maybe, but for my money probably the right decision in this case.
JS
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Ah! The trouble is, the music desk is neither here nor there, so to speak, and it falls between the long and short range. This is why I need extra specs just for the organ.
MM
Quite so. And there's a world of difference between a 4m cathedral organ and a humble house organ where the crotchets are six inches from your nose. That's why I have a pair of +1 and a pair of +2 reading specs. Mind you, I still struggle to play all the right notes in the right order....
JS
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Hi,
I just saw that Kuhn is going to build a new organ for the Royal Academy of Music in 2013.
It was already mentioned on this forum that the van den Heuvel is getting thrown out, I was wondering, however, if anyone can explain why this ...
is going to be replaced by this ...
?
M
The background, I believe, involves defective mechanisms, collapsing case pipes etc - a sorry story all round.
JS
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Somehow I doubt it, but there is an interesting avenue yet to be pursued.....that of added ornamentation, which this work cries out for. It can, of course, be played on a single manual, but soloing out the top line, with added ornamentation, really brings it to life in the right hands.
MM
This prompted me to turn to John Scott-Whiteley's 21st-Century Bach DVD at the Wenzelkirche, Naumburg.
Here he plays on two manuals - LH & Ped on HW Gedackt 8 and RH on RP Rohr-Floete 8 + Quintadehn 8 - with the solo line very heavily ornamented. To me, this is a case of more is less, and the whole track becomes musically as well as visually irritating (like so many other examples in this series).
The one redeeming feature is the ravishingly beautiful sound of the two 8 foots together floating round the building. Hildebrandt was a genius - for me the Number 1 Bach organ anywhere in the world.
JS
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We're not doing very well with this are we?
MM
Peter Williams notes - Only one copy, by J G Walther.
It'll be interesting to see how he plays it. Williams comments 'Walther specifies neither pedal nor two manuals, and it is playable on one keyboard - surely not by chance in what is at times a five-part piece?"
I find it works well on a soft principal, or flute with mild chiff, plus slow tremulant.
JS
Francis Jackson Recital Liverpool
in General discussion
Posted
To be serious, I believe the reason it has not happened - as has been cited on this forum - is that such preferment would be unsympathetic to his wife's Quaker beliefs.
JS