Peter Godden
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Posts posted by Peter Godden
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Ah ! (Peter Godden #49)
HLF = array of committees (many members without specialist knowledge) = dilution of vision = compromises = final result
... but with £950,000, to spend on an organ or indeed on anything else. I'm sure they asked before they spent; they certainly did in Lincolnshire in 2005.
And had they not done so, we might still be looking at a big black hole in the RFH.
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Let us remember that the funding for the project was kicked off by the HLF, and they are more concerned about heritage than anything else, such as music. If the organ is part of our heritage, then it is, to their mind, proper to restore it as it was originally made. This was their reasoning in giving a lot of money to restore a historic organ in Lincolnshire several years ago; we were to restore it as far as possible to its 1878 condition, which was what we wanted to do in any case.
So no case for tinkering with the stop list in the manner so beloved of English organists.
I recall Dr Caleb Jarvis giving a demonstration of the St George's Hall organ in the 1960s, & talking about the post-war restoration, funded by Liverpool City Council. the brief was to restore the organ to its 1931 condition, i.e. what it what like immediately before war damage. he might have liked to do many things to it, but in the interests of history was not permitted to.
I heard Messrs Scott, Bell & Trotter at the RFH organ this past weekend. The playing was outstanding, the musicianship impeccable, the organ, history and all, a quite suitable vehicle for the music played, and, bar the Saturday night, the place full. On the Saturday night, the majority of the audience was young. And they listened to a concert which included two hymns sung by a choir! And the Saturday lecture series well-presented and enlightening.
Bravo, I say, to all involved.
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It's a great pity that the page turns in the OUP compilation are not better arranged. There should be no need for a page turn in a 2-side piece, such as the Scherzo from the 5 Short. This was not the case when all this music was available in separate albums. The compilation is full of it, and yet there is a blank page at the end.
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you might like to contact The Community of the Resurrection at Mirfield in West Yorkshire. http://www.npor.org.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch.cgi?Fn=Rsearch&rec_index=G00217 is looking for a new home.
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I don't know about Lully, but I have 2 volumes of excellent transcriptions of M-A Charpentier by Jean-Paul lecot, published by La Sinfonie d'Orphee, & I believe they publish quite a lot more from this period.
I came across the Charpentier in one of the music supplements to the French publication Orgues Nouvelles.
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Associations are all very well, but your accurate description of the state of most of those which survive suggests that they may no longer be the way forward, especially if they operate on an amateur footing, requiring committed voluntary officers etc. (you can tell that I have several PCCs!).
The Diocese of Lincoln was by no means the first diocese to appoint, some 3 years ago, a Diocesan Music Adviser (in some dioceses also known as a Diocesan Director of Music). Beavering away in a variety of contexts across a huge geographical area, she is bringing new life into a wide variety of areas of music in worship.
Apart from the fact that she is both experienced in this sort of work and highly able, one of the principal advantages of her appointment is that it gives authority to the validity of church music as a serious element in what we do. It's no longer an optional extra; it's at the core of the church's mission, and by appointing our MDO the diocese (or to be more accurate the Bishop) has said so.
There were those who said at the outset "What a waste of money; we should be appointing a Diocesan Missioner".
She is the Diocesan Missioner, and, slowly but surely in quiet rural Lincolnshire, what she is doing is working.
She has twigged, and we have twigged, that music speaks to the heart. THAT's what we really need to get right, anywhere.
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I have 2 LP recordings of Mme Durufle playing her husband's Prelude & Fugue sur le nom d'Alain, one dating from 1973 at Soissons (traction mechanique), the other from 1976 at the National Shrine Washington, so very close together in terms of time, & we may assume Mme's technique was in much the same order. Both are beautifully played, but there is really no contest. The performance at Soissons is so much clearer, and one can quite hear that this is because of the direct link between the player and the pipes. Mme is equally at home at Washington, but the organ lets her down. It is simply not capable of responding in the same way. It is left behind.
I too admit to a bias. The Victorian trackers I played as a student were so much more grateful to one's technique than the electric actions, some quite up-to-date, of the same time in my life.
Peter Godden
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If you have access to a 1961 Argo LP "A Procession with Carols on Advent Sunday", you'll hear how to do this with consummate good taste.
I don't know why so much of this early 1960s recorded material hasn't been reissued. So much musicianship.
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Lincoln Cathedral organ going flat out is inaudible in a full nave.
It's ugly too.
Peter Godden
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Nigel
You might find the 1903 Keates of Sheffield organ in St Wolfgang Munich worth a look. www.sawoga.net .
Peter Godden
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Chocolat.
If I remember rightly, in this most authentic French village church, a local lady started to play the 'armonium, but we were regaled with rank upon rank of glittering mixturework.
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I was organist at St Andrew's cathedral Inverness during the early 1980s, & got to know Fr Gregory Brusey, organist at Fort Augustus Abbey. The huge 5-manual organ in the church was not only far too large for the building, but also way beyond the resources of the Abbey community to maintain. Rushworth & Dreaper rebuilt it, either in in the late 60s or early 70s, as a moderate size 3-manual, perfectly adequate for the building. THis is the organ now in the RC church at Buckie, a very sensible home for it.
Peter Godden
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In 1897, a small church (seating about 150 say) ordering an organ from Harrison and Harrison got this sort of thing
Great:
Open Diapason 8'
Dulciana 8'
Harmonic Flute 4'
Swell:
Lieblich Gedackt 8'
Salicional 8' (from Tenor C)
Gemshorn 4'
Gamba Oboe 8' (from tenor C)
Pedal:
Bourdon 16'
Tracker action throughout. Three couplers.
The OD is so big it obliterates the rest of the instrument. The Gamba Oboe is a reedy flue stop - quite nice on its own or with the Gemshorn as a solo line.
There are at least two H&H organs of the same date with exactly this spec, and I believe I have found others (on the NPOR) with these stops plus a 4' Octave on the Great.
What I thought might be an interesting discussion is: what specification would you want nowadays if building a new organ costing about the same as it would cost to build the above specification?
In 1967 I was responsible for turning http://npor.emma.cam.ac.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch...ec_index=D05861 into http://npor.emma.cam.ac.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch...ec_index=D05862. At the time I thought it was the cat's whiskers. Nowadays, I'm horrified to think what I did.
I think I'd leave it as it was, though Professor Denny of Leeds University recommended changing the rather duck-like Oboe for "something rather more gentlemanly".
Mind you, Swell Octave to Great was totally useless.
A repentant sinner,
Peter Godden
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Here's a headache for you - if you had to design a house organ with two and four stops respectively what would you come up with? We had had a glut of organs with 8/4 + 8/2 configurations and I'm considering either a 2 or 4 stop organ for home. My instinct is to have:
2 Stop version
Manual I
8 Stopped Diapason
Manual II
8 Gemshorn ( small-scale with independent bass - stopped)
Pedals
No stops coupled to manuals
Couplers
II/I - by shift coupler
II/P
I/P
4 Stop version
Manual I
8 Stopped Diapason
4 Dulcet (Quasi principal)
Manual II
8 Gemshorn
4 Open Flute
Pedal
16 II Pedal Pipes (transmssion of St. Diap + 5 1/2 Quint for bass 12 notes)
Couplers
Same
Couplers might seem a little OTT but this will increase the general sonority and flexibility.
This little organ must be capable of rehearsing romantic and baroque stuff. I've seen too many organs with 8 + 8 Flutes, and my little 5 stop box organ has a charming sound, but franky the Pieces en style libre sound a complete nonsense.
Over to you!
Hector
http://npor.emma.cam.ac.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch...ec_index=D03768 is worth a thought, forgetting the silly 16'.
Peter Godden
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I go to graphic-display places and print-colour works quite often.
I couldn't help thinking, on reading this thread, that nowadays it would be so easy for everyone and everywhere to have decorated pipes.
They could produce standard designs and sell them as clear, sticky rolls, to wrap around organ-pipes like wallpaper. We could have new designs every few years, with all sorts of themes.
We could have "Smartie" organ-pipes, "Floral" organ pipes, "Flame effect" organ pipes or organ-pipes with humbug stripes.
We could even have the "Andy Warhol organ pipe", resembling a stack of coke-cans. Sell a few of them at Christie's, and the instrument would be self-financing.
I think we should run with this idea.
MM
Some yeras ago I attended Sunday Mass at the Roman Catholic Church at Schull, deep in the far South-west of Ireland. There was a pipe organ, but it wasn't used. The locked detached console gave every appearance of a small cheap single manual extension organ. But the organ front was beyond belief. Clearly, someone manufactures sheets of plastic imitation organ piping by the roll, and a length or two of this fronted the real gubbins.
I know that some church finishers specialise in bad taste, but thuis about took the biscuit.
Almost worth going out of your way to see - you wouldn't believe it unless you did!
Peter Godden
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St Hilary Spridlington in Lincolnshire. Organ by Thomas Nicholson (1878), front pipes decorated by "Lambert of Lincoln". Andrew Carter has just restored this organ. See his website http://www.ajcarterorganbuilder.co.uk/Spri...n%20Article.htm, and the NPOR entry http://npor.emma.cam.ac.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch...ec_index=D04214 which has a good picture of the front pipes.
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Dr Head, organist of St Mary's Cathedral Edinburgh may years ago, had many academic hoods to go with his degrees. When he was playing for services, Mrs Head would sit on the bench with him, & during the course of the service change his hood several times over.
Many clergy today, myself included, have tried to pare down the quantity of holy clothes we wear. Unless absolutely necessary, I now simply wear a cassock-alb, accompanied by a stole if the service is a sacrament. It is possible to play in this fairly loose-fitting garment. I see no reason at all for someone who is simply playing the organ to turn out like a Christmas tree.
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If nachthorn is still looking for a pedalboard, I have a 32-note radiating concave on my Jubilate 332 which I might consider exchanging for a straight one, following a trip to the continent and playing a few organs there. Phone me on 01673 860856, as I rarely come onto the discussion site.
Peter Godden
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I have recently parted with a modest sum of precious cash in order to acquire one Viscount Domus D40 toaster effort, complete with entirely non-standard pedalboard. I bought it knowing the shortcomings of said pedalboard as my finances wouldn't run to better things. To be specific, the current pedalboard is too short - 27 notes - and too shallow from back to front by quite some margin, also the sharp keys are too small. Nightmare, and certainly not the thing to do meaningful practice on.
Does anyone have a rather more 'standard' (knowing full well that there is no such thing, literally speaking) pedalboard going, either gratis or for a modest consideration? I have a means of collection and the ability to transfer the contacts from the old to the new, plus the tools to make the necessary alterations to the console furniture. All I need is the pedalboard! Can you help me?
Nachthorn
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Maybe the 15th in the mixture compensates in a chorus context and if the 2' is fairly narrow it could work both ways. I've seen it done this way before with a fairly low mixture that has a 2' in all the way up.
AJJ
I grew up in Formby & played this organ's predecessor at length. I think the building must have the dullest non-acoustic of any I've ever met. The previous organ was foul - the fact that it was buried deep in a chamber was possibly its most or only redeeming feature. Around 1970 we tried to liven it up a little. It is my guess (merely my guess) that a little quite gentle & refined upperwork in the new organ was an attempt to deal with the appalling acoustic problem.
Peter Godden
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Pardon my Scouse, as I've never heard the organ in St George's Hall live, but from what I have heard on CDs recorded by Christopher Dearnley, Ian Tracey and David Briggs, I remain resolutely underwhelmed by what I have heard. I know, I know, you should never judge an organ by a recording, but to me it has sounded like a poor mans Lincoln Cathedral, with out of tune reeds and an insufficient supply of wind. Were there in fact ever the glory days when this organ was in full working order, and is there anybody still alive who can remember them. And finally, if this organ is such a gem, why haven't the famously generous people of Liverpool dug deep into their pockets (and I do mean the people, not the local authority) and raised the necessary funds to put the sparkle back in this so-called jewel in their crown?
As one who grew up on Merseyside in the '60s, able to attend monthly recitals at SGH for either 3d or 6d, I forget which, & now in the Diocese of Lincoln, I think I can honestly say that SGH knocks the "harmonium" (Dr Philip Marshall) at Lincoln into a cocked hat. SGH was brilliant, loud, exciting, & noted national and international recitalists made glorious music on it. Regre was much in vogue, never my favourite composer, but players like Noel Rawsthorne & Brian Runnett communicated great sense out of it. Jeanne Demessieux improvised a symphony in a ball gown & high heels. Happy memories. The thing at Lincoln is a feeble waste of space, & ugly, to boot. It's inaudible in a full nave.
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One nomination I'd put forward is "What a friend we have in Jesus" to the tune Converse. I cannot understand why some churches still insist on singing it. I came across a Naval version of this hymn "Me no likee English Sailor", a lament by a waterside prostitute in the far East comparing the attributes of the English sailor ashore to American sailors, which was very refreshing.
David's 3 hymns are absolute class...
Try singing "What a friend" to Blaenwern. It turns it into something completely different.
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Peter Godden
Only came across this site recently, not a frequent visitor.
Born Merseyside 1947.
Studied music at Leeds university, organ with Donald Hunt, was organist at the Hostel of the Resurrection Leeds. PGCE Cambridge.
14 years teaching music & being organist at successively St Augustine's Edgbaston, St Peter-in-Thanet Broadstairs, St Andrew's Cathedral Inverness.
2 years at Lincoln Theological College.
Since then I haven't really been able to escape from the Diocese of Lincoln. Now looking after 5 tiny country parishes with a variety of organs, 2 of which hold BIOS Historic Organ Certificates. One (Spridlington) about to be restored next year.
Still play - have an R+D Apollo reed organ languishing in the garage - it's too big to get indoors - and a secondhand Viscount Jubilate indoors in the warm.
My wife Alison sings (especially Faure) & we do quite a few joint recitals out here in the potato fields.
Credo settings
in The Organ
Posted
Rubbra: Missa Cantuariensis