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Posts posted by Bevington

  1. Thank you for solving the mystery. Yes that's it - it's Greenhill. As soon  as I read the composer's name, I dimly recalled seeing a copy of the music at an organ lesson, (decades ago, and decades after the recording). Certainly worth seeking out and playing today.

  2. It is indeed a beautiful piece, and it was typical of my teacher to discover little gems that no-one else seemed to play. Additionally, he liked to make his own arrangements of pieces. His repertoire interest was broad - just as happy to play a little Handel Minuet he had arranged, as he was to perform Messiaen and everything inbetween. The short theme sounds so familiar.

  3. I wonder if anyone recognizes the music heard on the link below, (which I hope connects). It was recorded by by my former teacher, the late Lindsay O'Neill FRCO, on a Brindley and Foster organ, at that time a large two manual. Lindsay O'Neill was a very fine  improviser, and at one time studied with Harold Darke, although the music sounds perhaps more like Whitlock?

    A few years after the recording, the organ was enlarged by Walkers, (and includes a 32 reed and tuba). Sadly, it is now rarely used, due to the church moving to contemporary styles of worship and music.

    Any suggestions would be appreciated.

    Thank you.



  4. Thank you. Yes, it is Clifford Harker's arrangement, and there again I can find nothing to illuminate the issue of how one gets permission to use it. I am perplexed as to why Novello disown it (I have my late fathers 1937 edition - one of those ones with a pink/grey cover and St Cecilia window) when they must somewhere have some idea.

  5. I wonder if anyone is familiar with this work? I am trying to find out who owns the copyright, as it has just been recorded on an (unaltered) 1877 Willis organ for a forthcoming CD . Novello give the puzzling response that "it is not one of ours" (despite "Novello" clearly printed on the copy), but are unable to offer any further information. Any ideas appreciated.

  6. The title certainly appears when entered as a Google search - Sheet Music plus for example claims to sell it. It is also available in some libraries. I'm not sure how legal it is to scan and send a copy but that may be an answer. (My own copy is scrawled with markings - my teacher learned from Darke but I lay no claim to having inside info on how to register the music!)

  7. A fair question, Tony, which I can only answer on quite unacademic grounds! For many years I had the pleasure of being organist at a church with two organs - one a moderate sized romantic 3 manual; the other a fine little single manual 1845 Bevington. This splendid little instrument was sited so that its sound filled the building, often fooling people into thinking that the larger organ was being used. And yes, I happily played Tomkins, Gibbons, Locke, Purcell, Blow, Stanley, and so many others, on the Bevington - and as they were written, not in arrangements.

    But there is a warm, fuzzy, romantic side to me - my own now deceased teacher learned from Harold Darke, and others of his style, and at one stage I was quite accustomed to hear my teacher play old fashioned romantic 'big Bach' - swell boxes and all. We all knew that that this was "naughty Bach" but under the hands of a fine player I must admit it was fun to hear. A little time ago I was driving to work and had a sudden run of freely moving traffic in the peak hour crawl. I was listening to my then newly acquired CD release of the 1960s Great Cathedral Organ series and on came Statham playing the Stanley /Coleman arrangement, at Norwich. What can I say? Perhaps it was the combination of the rare burst of speed in morning traffic, or the mood I was in, or the volume, but I had the urge to learn to play that arrangement....and still do! I have the manual only version and used that recently at an evening service, but the big version beckons still.


    (And yes, I do turn up the bass when I listen to organ music in the car!).

  8. I wonder, please, if anyone is able to let me know where I may obtain a copy of the Coleman arrangement of Stanley's Voluntary in A minor, op 6 nr 2. Condition not important so long as it is legible! Some of the usual secondhand organ music sites don't appear to list it.

  9. David Patrick / Fitzjohn Music publishes Sonata nr 1 in G major - which is a fine sonata with a very attractive second movement. The others are out of print. Some years ago John Kitchen recorded the Sonata in Ab and if you were able to contact him (in Eddinburgh I recall) he may well be able to put you in the right direction. I have access to both so perhaps...

  10. This is not definitive and possibly not helpful: I have a facsimile copy of the original and the first two quavers are unmarked. However, somewhere I have a quite old recording (LP, not CD!) and the initial quavers are 'detached' rather than a real staccato. I played the Smart recently as a postlude and at a concert and find that I play those quavers - and subsequent repetitions of the pattern - with a mild detached touch aiming to focus an accent on the first beat of the ensuing bar(s). It may of course depend where you play - I have a large sluggish 3 manual instrument that needs to be told who is boss sometimes. Perhaps it is more a question of a neat articulated legato rather than straight staccato just to give the piece an initial kick start and to help it move into action. I think slurring the quavers rather ineffective.

  11. Now cverey please don’t take offence. Noting that you are listed as ‘newbie’ I’m puzzled as to your reason for joining the discussion board? There is very frank, intelligent, and well-considered exchange of ideas here from people who have a genuine concern for how the organ is perceived in the wider world and its real future - both sacred and secular. Unfortunately some opinions are incorrect. This doesn’t mean that you should not pose them to encourage interesting and stimulating discussion. No-one is ‘twisting’ your equally valid point of view, based on real experiences.

  12. Having moved house twice in 5 months I have not even found my Widor copies/CDs yet! But I wonder if one issue for the neglect of Widor movements is that the end doesn't justify the means - like Rheinberger, many Widor movement are more rewarding to hear rather than to learn and play. There are plenty of movements from Rheinberger sonatas that I enjoy separately, or as two contrasting movements, but I would only play a small handful of Rheinberger sonatas all through. Similarily I find some Widor symphonies / movements don't arouse enough interest to make it worth the time to learn. A little time ago I listened to a fine recitalist play an entire Widor symphony and at times the musical material didnt engage interest and seemed endless - being a Sunday afternoon, the sleepy looks on faces of the largish audience also suggested an induced corporate somnambulance! Having said that, there are definitely some beautiful moments in each symphony. (Didnt someone once say that Wagner had fine moments and long half hours?!).The 4th has a charming quiet movement, and the 2nd an engaging and 'reverent' quiet movement one as well as a cheerful finale. Despite it's 'ubiqutous' toccata the 5th has fine movements (although the jaunty pedal solo that starts one of them always makes me think we are about to hear a slow 50s rock song...) I think the 5th and 6th are probably the most homogenous as a whole - perhaps Widor reached his peak halfway through the ten symphonies?

  13. I feel this is a great piece and I have often sat down to get my hands and feet around it, the most recent time being yesterday evening. However, I am always foxed by the fingering of those little ascending semiquaver passages - six semiquavers in octaves followed by two bold chords - for example - bars 6 - 8. I confess that I usually start (in the RH) with thumb on the E flat for the first three semis, and then thumb again for the second three semis starting on D, but this can be hit and miss (of course) and I just wonder whether I am missing some more elegant and safe fingering solution to this passagework, or whether I should put in some sedulous practice so that I nose dive more accurately when I re-place my hands for the second time, if you see what I mean. This is where my lack of early discipline in learning and practising scales and arpeggios on the piano catches me out badly. The trouble is that this little argeggiatic motif appears so frequently during the piece and in so many different contexts in terms of the notes, that, for me, it renders, an otherwise, reasonably straightforward piece rather unapproachable. If anyone who has this piece at their fingertips has got these things sorted I could do with some advice, please!

    Haven't played the Brewer for years, but having recently re-organised my organ music shelf it is easily to hand. I have spent much time with similar patterns in the first movement of Harwoods Sonata in C#. In my Brewer, however, I notice that last time I played it I obviously altered the fingering from years ago, as there is evidence of more youthful - and possibly more contrived fingering - being erased. I notice that I have marked my copy to allow a tiny 'lift' before some of the big chords that follow the six note groups of semiquavers. I guess that I did this to let me 'place' my hands for the chords. For the first group I have: RH 123 123' and LH 532 131' marked. The next group RH 123 123' and LH 532 121' . Further on (last bar of the third page in my copy) where RH and LH begin on C# I have RH 212 413 and LH 214 321.

    Hand position/shape will help, and I find it helpful to have some arch and roll in my movement. Hope this begins to help a little bit....others will no doubt offer more. Possibly if I played it again now I may consider RH and LH helping each other, (by playing each others notes here and there) but I will have based my fingering on what I use for piano technical work.

  14. My (limited) experience is that many Dutch/German scholars have long held the view that Walter Emery got most decisions about notes correct and encourage students to study the Novello editions - albeit with a major 'health warning' about the registration/phrasing.


    On the specific question of this thread, I am always left feeling uncomfortable with Tierces de Picardie at any and every cadence as a convention - I have to believe JSB would have written one if he'd wanted one as he does at the end of BWV 548/i.


    On a similar vein how many people play the major 3rd as the final chord of Brahms Op 122/10 as printed by Henle as a 'Urtext'?


    I agree - I think the Emery editions are mostly sensible, certainly from a musical point of view - and yes, a health warning is often needed. (Although Kevin Bowyer once put out a CD of 'Edwardian Bach' which was rather fun, but would have sent the Baroque boys hissing into their sifflotes!). Listening again to the Koopman version of the F and F, I was struck by the intense rhythmic propulsion of his performance. Following it straight away with the performance by Karosi (mentioned by MM), I found the young Karosi's performance to be far less brilliant than when I first listened. In fact it seemed very ordinary or 'normal' by comparison, whilst obviously an excellent performance (and from memory!).

  15. ============================



    Never mind, there's a whole lifetime to get around to it! :rolleyes:


    When you do, I wouldn't worry about a major or a minor chord at the end. Just learn it as well as Balint Karosi, the young Hungarian organist.


    The following clip is just a marvel of immaculate control and what a feat of memory. Brisk, but perfect....a real "wow" performance.





    Interesting performance and all from memory. Returning to the very first question posed about editions - he is certainly not playing the notes as they appear in my urtext/Barenreiter edition! In fact, the notes sound just like those from the Novello version. So having come to terms with whether or not to play a major a minor chord . . . exactly how much of an urtext is supposed to be used?!! It seems that most of the youtube performances use very sensible versions of the music - inlcuding a correction to a couple of pedal notes mentioned earlier by Biggestalk.

  16. Perhaps this has been discussed before? I have recently "converted" from using my Novello version of Bach's Fantasia and Fugue in G minor, a piece I have not played for some time. Now I am using the Barenreiter edition, which for weary eyes certainly is a luxury with clear and uncluttered pages, amongst other advantages. There are of course some passages notated differently from the Novello - but the one I cannot absorb is the G major chord that ends the Fantasia. Novello has a minor chord. I am aware that there are those who believe in the idea of minor key works of this time ending on major chords, but I cannot make this "fit" mentally into what has preceded it - it doesn't even offer my ears a sense of radiance after the chromatic tension it follows! So major or minor - what do others think ?

  17. I once had a tenor in a choir I ran years ago who had a succession of jobs, including one where he was the head porter (or something) at a Very Classy Hotel. He became 'night manager'. This meant that he wore morning dress (or whatever it is that they wear at Very Classy Hotels) and still had this encumbrance when he arrived for Sunday morning rehearsal. He became 'night manager' so for us the beginning of the day... but for him the end of the day. I soon discovered in the choir stalls the numerous empty mini bottles of port that he had 'acquired' at the end of each Saturday night. Many times he would have to be roundly nudged for stentorious snoring during the sermons - more the port than the sermon, I fear! The choirboys thought it was very funny! After a service one day someone gave him a very strong coffee, which he dutifully spilt all over the console, just he walked up to say something nice aboiut the postlude. Dont ask how. I was slightly orbital at that point! However, I must admit that my current organ has a drinks shelf, put in inside part of the organ case, as a joke by an organ building friend of mine. But in coldest darkest winter I sneak in steaming cups of coffee to put on the floor whilst practising, where they will do no damage if knocked. (Ours is not a drink in church place!).

    As a vocal coach I agree with David about water bottles: why the clinging obsession by so many singers these days? Yes hydration is important, but apart from the extensive environmental problems, it tests my patience when running combined choir rehearsals to see the constant throwing back of heads - not to mention the water stains left on the music!.

    And a bottle of sherry behind the music desk? For after the service I assume?

  18. I bet nobody has a copy of that these days! At the time it was regarded as a very good recording and he was regarded as a very good player. Malcolm

    I have it! Couperin, Bach, Hindemith and Reger put out by Gemini Recordings

  19. Peter Wright's new CD from Southwark Cathedral features this piece and the ending is quite different from any I've heard before and is, IMHO, very effective and enjoyable. He ends with a unison cadence with almost jazz-like grace notes finishing on bottom D. Simple and fun.


    The Fanfare is included in 'The Organists' Manual' by Roger E Davis, and in this instance ends with the grace notes you mention, but it is printed separately as 'the original ending'. At the bottom of the page a note tells us "The ending enclosed in brackets is suggested by the author, the original by Lemmens was for pedals alone . Different endings for this piece may be found in other editions". In other words Davis adds his own ending in small notes (in brackets) at the end of the piece, and the grace note ending by Lemmens as an option!

  20. Edmund Crispin (the pen name of Bruce Montgomery) an organist/choirmaster at St Johns College, Oxford, in the first half of last century wrote some rather whimsical detective novels. One named "Holy Disorders" includes the vibrations of the 32' in an organ of a rural cathedral used to dislodge a slab (under which if I recall correctly) a dead body is found.... At one stage he was the regular crime writer for the Sunday Times.

    Organs get odd mention in some of the less known works of Dickens I recall. To this day I enjoy referring to my own place as the kinfreederal, after the urchin in one of Dickens lesser known tomes. Has a sort of 'cor blimey' ring to it!!

  21. Thought this might be the ideal place to raise a similar issue concerning another Dupre piece.


    The Allegro Deciso from Evocation, Op.37 - on the final page, 4th system, 2nd bar - can't help thinking that the C flat in the left hand ought to be a natural - it certainly seems to sound strange otherwise! Would also seem to be a misprint as in the right hand they are naturals. Any thoughts?


    I cannot actually help with the Evocation as I do not play it - but it seems to me that there are misprints lurking in a number of places in Dupre's music. I wonder if the best approach is to ignore obvious out-of-place clashes - such as the previously mentioned A flat against A natural - and go with what sits melodically, harmonically and logically. When I come across a questionable section I play over parts separately, or in single lines, to get the 'flow' of where it is going; and then usually find that what feels to be right is usually the best answer. A bit arbitrary perhaps . . . But of course the Evocation may be less logical!

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