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kropf

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Posts posted by kropf

  1. Regarding technical specs of the Hannover instrument: Do not trust the german sources to much, even the interviewed organist mixes up the date of build (1902/1904).

    Schulte organ builders (near Cologne) have quite a reputation for importing English organs, sometimes redesigning them technically and optically.

    Some references given here: http://www.orgelbau-schulte.de/de/htmls/england_amerika.htm

    and on the home page http://www.orgelbau-schulte.de/ they say that they can rely on a pool of about 50 english/american instruments. And they definitely argue with the financial benefits of re-using existing material...

     

  2. Interesting thoughts and ideas here. In Germany there are several compositions in print, which more or less successfully try to generate encounters for young audiences with pipe organs. They may appear as short musicals, stuff like "Peter and the Wolf" etc.

    A more recent activity was started following the listing of German organ building etc. as immaterial UNESCO world heritage. A small foundation around Jäger & Brommer organ builders runs the "Königskinder" project. The name (king's children) refers to the children of the King of Instruments. This project supports organists, parishes or schools who seek to bring children into contact with pipe organs with an Orgelkoffer, an organ suitcase, which contains several materials to explore an organ and to get deeper understanding of it.

    Well, more precisely said: At the end, the idea is to gain an "organ portrait" produced by the young "researchers" and incorporated into a larger database (published online). A physical portrait for display on site is beeing made, too. The idea is that schools or teachers apply for such an event, the project team will then make contact with local organs and organists suitable for that purpose resp. missing in the database of the "Deutsche Orgelstraße" (Organ Road of Germany). I think it is not impolite to say that the project is promoted by the named organ builders who may seek to gain interest for their work. Anyway, the idea may work. The Blog section of the website shows the first events. This project strengthens or initiates connection between children and instruments in their local surroundings, a quite important aspect. The website (German only) :
    https://www.koenigskinder.online/

    To encourage young people to PLAY organs, the leading German project is the youth organ forum based at Stade (close to Hamburg, in the Heart of the Arp Schnitger region). Even if you do not read German, the photograph showing so many teenage organists at once is quite touching:

    http://www.jugendorgelforum.de/

    Karl-Bernhardin Kropf

     

  3. Here is some good news, which may encourage this forum, too: As announced yesterdy, it became possible for the manager of the named second german forum to migrate it to SSL encryption and to update the software. This was made possible by a donation. May all organ fora prosper in 2019!

  4. Hello everybody!

    After three years break, I am writing a contribution again.... I want to let you know that the provider of the second largest german-speaking forum (orgel-information) has announced to close down, as some work to be done regarding the need of https-encryption doesn't seem to him worth the effort anymore, as his forum has fallen into sort-of sleep, too. The dominant german forum (pfeifenorgelforum) is still busy, but also sees times of very little activity, and it is quite fascinating that one can't find any cause or pattern responsible for that. Facebook might be an issue, for shure.

    I promise to have o more frequent look to Mander's! As mentioned above, many hundreds of readers do benefit from the knowledge beeing shared here. For me as an organist from abroad who is addicted to anglican church music, it was and still is an important source. So, thanks go to all who kept this alive through the past years!

    Greetings from Karl-Bernhardin Kropf, DOM St. Mary's Church of Rostock, Germany

  5. Thank you for making me aware of this final verse of "O come". For me, personally, this song bears many remembrances to early services in catholic music in Austria, where I grew up, and in my following lutheran years in Germany. Both hymnals contained this piece, and as a singer I learned the nice Kodaly setting, too.

    This setting by Andrew Carter and so many other arrangements are constantly proving that the art of decorating and reinforcing congregational singing and hymns is at its highest in English cathedrals.

  6. We have a Vigil service at 10:00pm tomorrow with the Lord Lieutenant, High Sherriff and lots of military top brass.

    Music will include the Kyrie from Jehan Alain's Messe de Requiem, My soul, there is a country from Parry's Songs of Farewell, Rheinberger's Abendlied and Stainer's God so loved the world.

     

    Over this weekend we have been joined by singers from Aachen, and from the Marienkirche in Rostock, to commemorate the anniversary and celebrate the many Anglo-German friendships we now enjoy. Music was a mixture of German and English, including Mendelssohn's Verleih uns Frieden (Give peace in our time, O Lord...) and some standard Anglican fare such as Stanford in C and Naylor in A for Evensongs, Harwood in A flat for Mattins and Sumsion's Communion in F, David Terry's beautiful new setting of Laurence Binyon's They shall grow not old... and - to make the point that the war didn't only take place on land - Sumsion's They that go down to the sea in ships.

     

    Great music-making with old and new friends, and some very emotional moments.

    Beeing one of the mentioned Rostock singers, I want to thank DHM for giving us opportunity to share this experience. It was among my toughest and most beautiful experiences as a musician.

    Beeing known here on the forum as admirer of Anglican church music, it was the first time I was part of a native performers group as a singer, which I enjoyed the more that I normally only conduct or play the organ at home.

    Having attended many evensongs at great places and translated it to our Rostock version, it was still an incredible challenge to cope the Ladies und Gentlemen of with Rochester Cathedral Voluntary Choir - according to German levels a very experienced and well-sounding choir - to have the right pieces at hand at the right moment, to keep close contact with the conductor and to link into the high musical tension, which was kept throughout all services...

    The estimation of the daily musical work which is done in the cathedrals and major churches in the Anglican world has doubled, and it was high before....

    Thank you everybody out there for keeping and making flourishing this tradition.

    As this is an organ-related forum, I want to say that Rochester Cathedral's organ was among the very impressive experiences of cathedral organs I have had until now. Projection ad sound in the quire is very compact, and it seems well capable of bearing the congregational singing on sundays.

    Though I hope to achieve similar effects at home, I never experienced the feeling of a congregation beeing united or melted together by the organ accompaniment to the hymns that much before.

    This all would not have happened without a superb player, always on the spot throughout the rehearsals, making use of a wide variety of sounds for choir accompaniment and giving us Dupre's B-major prelude as Sunday postlude. It was Matthew Jorysz, currently organ scholar at Clare College, Cambridge.

     

    And, back to topic:

    I'm a native Austrian, living in Germany since 1992. My generation has been told its lessons and has quite thoroughly learned them. Therefore it is always interesting and important to see, what commemoration of the Great War or WW II does like on the side of those, who helped to make them end. Naturally, the view will differ slightly from those who started all.

    Every day I tell the visitors to our organ loft (part of our noon prayer routine) the story of the removal of 3.000 pipes in 1917 for ammunition industry just in our own organ (the 90 facade pipes where to be sacrificed, but it was decided to kick out everything which would not have survived an intended major rebuild, too...), and I tell them about the inauguration of the next organ in Nov 1938, the air raids of 1942-44 and how they brought back what has been sent out...

    May it never happen again.

     

    Greetings from Rostock

    KBK

  7. As most often, I have no answer, but would like to share the interest in it, as this question was risen regarding the organ I'm serving at. The fact, that the wind enters at the treble end at some soundboards was seen as an issue, as the wind consuming bass seemed to be under-supplied. As improvement improvement it was thought not to simply change the entry side, but to create an additional entry.

  8. Hello SlovOrg, thanks for your reply! The underground archive is a very nice find. And your Slovenia option made me think it over, and I tried IE instead of my standard Firefox - an idea I did not have before - so I finally could listen to Exeter Cathedral! Thus the problem is limited to a few cubic centimeters and I can fix it somewhere in the Firefox PlugIn area... :)

     

    Edit on Dec 20th: ....it happened today with the automatic installation of the latest Firefox version - I'm happy to join evensong audience again!

  9. Sadly, I cannot follow resp. share discussions of BBC3 Evensong anymore, as they obviously have cancelled the podcast possibibility for listeners abroad.

    I can understand copyright reasons, but for me it is a loss of a loved connection to Anglican church music.

    To hear the mentioned (and future) Norwich evensong would have been nice, as I've been there not long ago.

     

    Greetings

    Karl-Bernhardin Kropf

  10.  

    As an aside, wouldn't it be interesting to hear how he achieved this? I find it difficult to imagine that he did anything so corny as merely plonking down a dominant seventh in the new key.

    Don't forget the interludes after everly line of the hymn - we do not exactly know, what happened when where, but there are so many examples of interludes all over protestant Germany. I even have some 19th century examples in our own church records here, providing two different versions at each line's end, so you could pretend (at least two verses long) you have the required improvisational skills.

    If you have a look at Bach's preserved Arnstadt Chorales and the interludes there (and you are aware that he was charged of irritating the congregation! It is even said in the records of his Arnstadt case, that he was called to KEEP a strange tone/note and not to turn to another one immediately), then one could imagine, that, by some more exotic changes in those flourisihing lines, he could have managed it in a way that we would be able to understand at least a little bit...

  11. It is different in Germany where the chorale books are in unison and every verse is given a different harmonisation by the organist. That is a rather different thing and I have never heard it done less than well. I imagine this works precisely because it is the norm and the congregations are used to it and expect it.

    So, you must have been lucky with your choice of locations!

     

    There are many books around with accompaniments for the hymns, 3-part, 4-part, piano compatible, lower for "older" generations and funerals (???), but the problem is, that weak players are heavily struggling with them in cases when the hymns have been scheduled very lately (at catholics often minutes before service starts - the dreadful electric displays for the hymn numbers make it possible...), so they decide not to practice or slow down too much and do freestyle harmonization. Even at players with church music diploma, you can hear many things pressing one to express "Keep the printed settings, please!"

    Another problem is aesthetics: Many players who are aware of harmonic tricks use hymn harmonization as a showcase for their skills. The first verse of a hymn is often enriched so much that it should be reserved for last verses on special occasions. Very frequently you can find printed outcomes like this, when such players are asked to contribute to hymn collections. The weak players using such collections thus have to repeat those "special effect settings" for many verses...

     

    On the other hand, organists who combine taste and capabilities, can really lift up the emotions of a singing congregation. Talking about names, I would take Peter Planyavsky first. Wolfgang Seifen is extremely talented, especially in romantic stuff, but once he is at the console, he is like a boy in a toys store and has difficulties to restrict himself from doing everything what he is able to..... (which makes his improvisation concerts often tiring on highest level)

  12. One couldn't 'play' a hymn tune on bells hung in the English fashion with ropes and wheels, and as Choir_Man points out, in English change-ringing a bell can only sound once in each line (Fabian Stedman was way ahead of Arnold Schonberg in this!).

     

     

    Yes, of course, I was not clear in my reply. Even as a joke, it referred to music which could be played along to chiming bells, sought in the opening post....

     

    The art of change-ringing is to be highly admired. Though those various kinds of mentioned artistry in Italy, which put the ringers often at a very high risk by getting hands on bells and clappers directly (youtube shows plenty of such scenes) are fascinating, too. But this strange system of English change-ringing, which is not commanded by musical means but mathematical patterns, is one of those things you can find on your islands only.

     

    When I was promoting our huge bell restoration project here, I got "The Nine Tailors" by Dorothy L. Sayer as a gift. In her foreword she says something like the above about the art of ringing, which could only have been developed in England. A very nice book.

    Are there any similar books dealing with crime and organs involved?

  13. At least, "Ding, dong, merrily on high" should always work...?

     

     

    BTW, this is one of the English carols I could listen to/sing all year long. Is it just because of the foreign language that one can stand carols even outside christmas season?

  14. Mind that the variety of pitch in regard of temperature changes might affect the bell and your organ quite differently, so something that works in summer could be out of tune in winter....!

     

    But I'd like to point you to the most intimate connection of organ and a tolling bell:

    Harald Vogel recorded a very early organ piece on the beautiful late gothic organ of Rysum, East Frisia, Germany, the Redeuntes in mi by Conrad Paumann, and this recording features the piece as an overlay to a tolling bell in the root pitch.

    Vogel is sure, that during mediaeval processions not only the organist corresponded to the sound of a tolling bell, but even the bellow treaders might have followed that meter, creating a synchronous pulse for all the worshipping pilgrims...

    He concluded that from the "Redeuntes" models like those by Paumann and by questioning, what they could have been used for. There must be some evidence (I can't remember his elaborations in detail) for uneven wind in the large mediaeval Halberstadt organ, described by Michael Praetorius,or he found out by researching the building principles of early bellow arrays. He meant, if the bellow-treading motions are audible in the organ sound, it would be senseful to give them any musical meaning by synchronizing them to the organ music or external sounds, like a tolling bell....

  15. I do transpose the last verse very rarely. And upwards, of course. No wandering around in the between-verses, though I like the modulations of Rutter's "Look at the world"...

     

    ....but what I wanted to tell you, is one of the most amusing memories of a misunderstanding:

    Years ago, I was a visitor to a service in a small R. C. church in Northern Germany, diaspora, so. There is a modern song (well, from 1961), which is usually stepped up a semitone in every of its six verses.

    And normally, this is done by making the final note of the current verse the third of the modulating dominant seventh chord to the next verse - making the final C of the C major verse the third of the A-flat 7 chord, modulating to the following D-flat verse.

    Well, of course you know that. And it works best with songs, where the first and the last note are the base of the scale, as it is the case with that vertain melody.

    So, it should have been:

     

    danke-1.jpg

     

    Well, the lady playing the toaster may have heard an explanation of this method. Once upon a time....

     

    But, what did we hear on that sunday morning?

     

    danke-2.jpg

     

    This happened two more times (they did not perform all the verses), and every time congregation, singers group and organist celebrated that metric stop at a verse's end, the listening to that isolated magic chord, and then started the next verse a whole tone higher... :unsure:

    It was so astonishing not to see ANYBODY with a trace of doubt, that this modulation rite was not the real thing...

  16. While beeing unable to reach such a level of poetry as Friedrich did, I think the news that such stops are to beinstalled in NDdP is a good one.

    I have access to an instrument, where a compound stop of 10 2/3, 6 4/5 and 4 4/7 (or some figures like those, i. e. fifth, third and seventh) really produce a sort of 32' Violone, at least on some notes and I do believe in the effects of strengthening the upper partials of a tone and thus carrying more far within the building. However, regarding mutations higher than 2 2/3', I do not see or feel this effect in primary, but more the change of colours.

    And those colours which become available with ninths and elevenths, are necessary for nearly nothing in written music, but pretty much for improvisation! Just for very brief episodes of course, and not ten times during one concert or service - but those limitations do apply to some undulating stops, the Tuba or the Bombarde 32', too.

    Having the ninth and eleventh based on 16' or even 32', it makes using them easier, as the keyboard range, where they really give a certain colour and not a chaotic shimmer like the Polnische Cymbel/polish cymbal, is not at the top end.

    (Oh, and one more argument for having a 1 7/9 instead of a 8/9 etc.: It's much easier to tune, I suppose...)

     

    Those of you who put their hands on electronic keyboards during the 80ies - do ro remember the advent of the Yamaha DX7 and its so called "algorithms", which went much more far then the analogue "ring modulators" where able to do before...? Now we easily got all those chimes, tubular bells and modulating derivates...

    Doing so as a teenager, I thought, these are colours really limited to electronic production. But, in some aspects, I was not completely right, as I had not met any organs with mutations more remote than a quint or third (and even that was not easy in the province I come from...).

    So, as an improviser, give me those mutations on an enclosed division - well, not any day, but some days a year!

     

    Edit: Here is the spec of the mentioned organ with the bass harmonics. Its builder was known for fancy mutations, and this organ can easily sound very beasty... but is convincing in illustrating something, and so, it is used several times a year for accompanying silent movies (the church is beeing used not only as church, but as venue for other things, too)

  17. Having read about the general unequal tuning und the meantone division (something which is existing in Germany at least at three places, but all churches), I do not think that the typical use in combination with choirs and orchestra was ever intended.

    (And if it were, the advisers are in question... :ph34r: )

    It may best serve alone and could beautifully add to programmes with Early Music, both as an accompanying instrument and with independent contributions.

    I do not know what you think out there, but I heavily complain the fashion of our decades to turn to chest or positive organs, when it comes to unequal temperament for continuo within concerts. It's all about the difficulty of combining the need for visibility of the performers and the availability of an instrument with needed features on the same site.

    As discussed elsewhere on this board, the perpetual use of a stopped 8' is a possibility of continuo sound, but far not the only one!

    Where are the open 8' sounds, which were available on all the organ lofts of the past? I'm always happy to see purchases of chest organs having an open 8', and be it in the descant only. Intonation of vocal soloists or ensembles gets better, too, and more effectively than by pulling the 4' stop.

     

    Sorry for talking without any idea of what this hall is beeing used for now or will be in future, but this kind of use would seem an appropriate and attractive way.

     

    And I'd like to follow the critics of the concept: If used for music written after, say, 1840 and together with modern orchestra or an educated choir of 40+ persons, questions will appear, at least at the latter aspect.

  18. There have been certain times during my life as a listener when I have longed for the correct tonal resources for a particular peice of music, and this includes an unequal temperament. ...The organist did their very best but I could not bear to listen to the re-broadcast of this and had to turn it off when the concluding voluntary was begining. PJW

     

    I tend to turn off when the playing is boring, be it even on instruments with appropriate tonal resources (what happens much more often, in my ears). But I can understand that there might be much more longing for the correct resources in voicing and temperament when the area is filled with compromising instruments.

    In Germany, the majority of the new smaller and mid-size organs do now come with unequal temperament.

    When I was studying in Vienna (end of 80ies...), there was a fashion among the local builders with poorer voicing capabilities to use unequal temperament everywhere, as (nearly) everything sounded better - well, it actually does.

    An example I recently passed by online, where unequal temperament meets an instrument which would normally not have one, is this partly-symphonic Mathis organ of 2012. (Scroll down for spec)

     

    I agree that this specific Purcell heavily relies on the effects of unequal temperament. But I think that players who know, what would happen to certain intervalls or notes on such an organ, are able to reproduce a faint rendering of those effects on equal-t. organs by other means.

  19. Hello!

     

    Hearing a very fine rendering of Purcell's Voluntary on an organ of the kind of Durham Cathedral is not what one would expect when opening the weakly BBC3 evensong stream.

    Beside that it makes a nice frame together with the opening "Remember not, Lord", it is simply played in a most perfect manner. Compliments to Francesca Massey.

    This recording confirms me in my attitude, that those instruments (and some of you are aware that I regularly sit an something comparable, though of poorer quality) are capable of much more than many do consider.

     

    German organists first would ask: How could you play Purcell on such an instrument?

     

    It is mostly the unequal temperament, what is missing, but beside that, it sounds lively and adequate. Could anybody from the region inform me, how the piece was adapted to the organ (as long as the stream is available online...)?

    Trumpet solo on Swell and accompanying voices on Positive or....?

     

    Thanks!

    Karl-Bernhardin

  20. =====================================

     

     

    A fascinating reply from Karl, for which I am grateful. He reminds us, quite rightly, that the use to which medieval cathedrals were put was originally very different to what it is now, and I'd forgotten my history lessons. Even the idea of mass worship is a relatively modern one, and I think I'm right in thinking that seating was not provided in those far off days. I believe the usual thing was for visitors, pilgrims and local people to come and go freely; perhaps offering prayers, perhaps meditating on the beauty and images of a cathedral, perhaps joining in the saying of mass at a side-chapel or performing the various rituals associated with the stations of the cross, where people would wander from one stage to the next. High Mass, (often said behind a stone screen or 'rood'), was celebrated on behalf of the people in some isloation.

    Oh, for German churches, like the hanseatic "cathedrals" of St. Mary's Lübeck and our own in Rostock, it is known that the traders met before the burse opened, and much business was done in the church, sensitive material (like wool) was stocked there ans so on. Buxtehude's "Abendmusiken" generated the use of civic police and complaints about couples using the relative dark of the church for things not beeing intended by the arranger....

    In Lübeck there is still a room today, a small one above the Bürgermeister-Kapelle (mayor's chapel), where the parish does not have a key to it, but the city has!

    Acoustically, it isn't just the style of architecture and changing roof structures, (with the usually obstructive nave/chancel arch), but the fact that many cathedrals built on a cruciform plan, (east/west/with transpets) include a large, often little used, central space. Place a tower above that space, (as at York Minster), with an internal height of considerable size, and the acoustic void is just too large to overcome; almost by any means. In such buildings, there will always be a divide between east and west; like a permanent cold-war. Wherever a choir is located, one or the other side will suffer remoteness by virtue of distance; esecially in long, narrow buildings with high vaulting.

    True. We use the crossing now as place for small ensembles, as we have best projection from there via the octogonal transept pillars. Our pulpit is located there since mid 16th century, too.

    Perhaps there is no single solution to the problem of organ sighting, which could possibly satisfy all needs, and I think that were I to place a body of singers in a cathedral chancel, I think I would want a chancel organ to go with it. Interestingly, just about the entire Anglican repertoire could be accompanied very satisfactorily on a good extension organ with perhaps 8-10 ranks of pipes, but I think that might upset German organists.

    Tell you, since I played Derby cathedral organs, i. e. the Compton, I changed my mind on extensions. We have been told at university that it comes right from the devil, but we were simply lacking good examples. And check recent additions or "re-organizations", as they like to call it here now (a word for a coming major rebuild which is intended not to set up those of the donors still living, who contributed to the existing organ...), you will find not only floating divisions, but often electric single valves or pallets, allowing various uses of single pipes resp. ranks.

    Edit: And many small organs in C-C style (general swell, little upperwork) have been ordered or bought second hand for use in chancels.

     

    Nevertheless, I still feel that the west-end gallery position is the most favourable all round, where a choir and organ can be united as a single musical entity.

     

    Here, we would have to look carefully for really fine solutions, too. So, we too have many places which are not free of complaints. Nearly everywhere there are good and odd places, where you can't follow the music, may it come form East or West.

     

    Maybe it is not the perfect spiritual location, but as a musical place, both regarding choir solo, choir + orchestra, choir+organ+orchestra and so on, and satisfying upt to 2000 listeners at once, one can regard St. Michaelis of Hamburg. Not only a dream of an instrument by joining two fine organs and a floating "celestial" division, but because of its centered layout an ideal place for performing and listening.

    On the other hand, for me it is a place with "limited holiness" - more a hanseatic living room than a cathedral....

     

    An Image of concert filled church and balconies - the movable general console is normally placed on the very right end of the balcony.

    More about the fascinating organs here.

    Edit: The specification is to be found on the collaborating firm's website.

    As an improviser, it's the finest place I have ever played.... Sorry for spoling the Bradford thread.

  21. Thanks to Karl for alerting us to this. I furnish a link to the Sequentia website, where what seems to be the complete article is given.

     

    It makes for fascinating reading and, as ‘MM’ says, might send us back to our Grouts/Taruskins/Hoppins/Everists/ . . . :

     

    http://www.sequentia...c_acoustic.html

     

    Thank you for finding this! Indeed, I wanted to link this article, but the link can be found on the German journal's website only within the members area.

  22. Thanks, MM, for your observations regarding chancel dimensions etc. Yes, the building styles are not really comparable.

     

    Speaking about acoustics, many do say, that not the west end is the best place for an organ in a large church (of traditional lengthy layout), but the "Schwalbennest" (translated with "blister"?), so a high position in the middle (or so) of the nave.

    Brussels Cathedral come to mind, Chartres, Strasbourg, Cologne, Regensburg (though beeing hung into the short northern transept), Worms, Trier.... (and some English installations make use of those effects, even if mostly buried within the archs, I'd think of Westminster Abbey.... Yes, and then all "corner" installations, personally I've heard St. Edmundsbury's, and so on.

    The more recently built Schwalbennest organs are often suspended by strong steel wires or rods, mostly for the reason, that for future changes of mind they can be cut off fully reversibly, to give the impression that there has never been any organ there. (German Authorities for Heritage Preservation would never allow to take more than a few stones out of a medieaeval wall....!)

    Not only in Cologne, all people favouring architecture more than church music, they regard the installation of those suspended instruments a hopefully passing annoyance.

     

    Speaking from the "West End Organ Region", one can often hear complaints about organs beeing to weak to "fill" the church, or to lead the congregation (at Christmas Eve, at least....). One hast to remember that those buildings NEVER were intended to have one single source of sound at one point in it and to have many hundred or more people hearing it with a certain power, or understanding the words of vocal music and so on. This is a typically modern use of those churches. We should be happy that there are still situations where a large congregation wants to sing and to be leaded by an organ - let's hope they are still there in decades - , so we should try use very individual solutions fitting the local situation of that church.

     

    In the current issue of the German Catholic Church Music Journal ("Musica sacra"), Benjamin Bagby, a known performer of (Very) Early Music who has written on "gothic acoustics" and the differences between our image of it and the original situations for that journal, tells about his recent visit to Notre Dame de Paris, where a concert with early polyphonic music took place:

     

    Instead of hearing the usual muddy sound, produced when placing the ensemble in the crossing, he could understand the words well, could follow the voices.... When experiencing this even while he went around in the church, he discovered that the microphones, which he thought were installed for recording purposes, were part of a highly developed sound reinforcement system (probably using delay lines etc...), and the sound was given an artificial clarity.

     

    Interesting, that he found the application of such a device, as obviously done on a high level of sound desing, an absolutely legitimate solution to transport the message of the music, as the "true sound" of the composers periods was a quite exclusive donation to few clerics beeing quite close to the sources of the music (as one still is when sitting in the quire during evensong).

     

    So, back to Bradford: The desired purpose of organ sound and the possibilities of getting what is wanted have to be balanced - and, well, this is of course the drive of the discussion here.

     

    A postscript: As former teacher for serviec playing, I am still impressed, how many prominent organists at important (and so often acoustically problematic) places ruin the organ's abilty of leading large congregations by playing much to tight, as if they never understood the role of the space as part of the instrument, and reverb as a given component of any key release.... and claiming, that the instrument is to weak to do it.

    Then, if funds permit, they get those very beasty organs, then played legato again and killing themselves in a crossfire of reverberating clouds of sound. (Currently the mostly roman cathedral of Mainz is discussing all those issues - how to get an organ or an "organ network" to lead congregation, fulfill needs of independet organ music, choir accompaniment and to be as invisible as possible at the same time...?)

     

    Did you ever play an early grand piano? With the weak damping of those instruments, having sort of reverberation on everything, one can understand, why pedal could be used much less for many situations. But that leads off-topic now....

  23. ================================

     

     

    ......not always easy in Anglican churches unless we get the choirs back where they belong, at the west end.

     

     

    Interesting view. On the continent, a majority of DsOM would like to get the choirs there, where they usually are in England or the Anglican places.

    It would suppose this is true for both protestant and catholic responsibles, as singing from balconies - which would mostly be the solution on the west end - is regarded as distant from the congregation, both acoustically and regarding worship, and allowing a "parallel life" up there.

    Many "Choir organs" have been purchased here in Germany through the last years, to have an alternative siting of the choirs without losing the possibility of organ accompaniment. Of course, in most cases, there is still a "big one" at the west end.

     

    So, the best of both worlds might be desirable - having the choir on any central position with a capable organ there, and another instrument or stronger than the typical "nave divisions" on the west end.....?

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