Colin Pykett
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Posts posted by Colin Pykett
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Another way to get a good quality pipe organ is to go for a second hand or redundant instrument. A reputable consultant, such as one who is a member of the Association of Independent Organ Advisers, will know of their availability and whereabouts. (Do not allow your CofE DAC organ adviser to act as your consultant, unless you specifically want this to happen. This is not their role, though some are rather too pushy in this regard. They are there to provide a hopefully educated and objective opinion to the DAC about what you want to do, not to advise you or your church). A church near me got such an instrument, fully reconditioned, for well under £15K about ten years ago, and this included all transportation costs plus an excellent opening recital by the adviser himself.
Thus pipe versus electronic price comparisons cannot be done on the bare figures alone. Deeper investigation of the options is required if an optimum outcome is to be achieved. The essential breakthrough comes when one embraces a mindset which does not insist that the pipe organ must have a stop list comparable in size (and irrelevance) to that of the digital competition. A further factor which often comes into the equation is that there are few significant pipe organ rebuilds in which tonal changes do not play a role - pruning the price down to the minimum by just getting the thing working properly again seems to be rare! Also it is necessary to bear in mind that the prices of digital organs escalate as soon as one wants to customise a standard product.
Thus the question of whether to go for pipes or electronics is not just a question of the relative costs.
CEP
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Sorry, we appear to have crossed in the post. Please see my #40.
CEP
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This is true (#39). A common voltage used to switch electronic logic circuits is 5 volts. It is not permissible to use silver contacts for this purpose because they should not be used below 6 volts - the tarnish layer which builds up blocks voltages below this. Above it, there is little effect. This curious phenomenon is called quantum tunnelling, and competent organ builders of both the pipe and electronic varieties are largely aware of it nowadays. (In the 1980s and earlier many were not!).
Of course, the problem also affects the many electric action pipe organs which use electronic (solid state) transmissions, as well as digital instruments. Low voltage levels in both types of instrument can be switched reliably using gold-clad wire instead of silver, magnetically operated reed switches, magnetically operated Hall effect sensors or optical techniques.
The incorporation of contact redundancy should also be carefully considered, in which at least two physically independent switches are provided at each switching point. This was first realised and implemented by Robert Hope-Jones in the 1890s, who drew in this case on his oft-derided experience gained as a senior telephone engineer. Probability theory shows that a pair of unacceptably-bad contacts, each of which only have a 75% chance of working, will achieve 95% reliability when operated together in a tandem-redundant configuration.
So there's a lot more to making a contact than perhaps meets the eye, and the methods used separate the sheep from the goats in the craft quite markedly once you know what to look for!
CEP
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The phenomenon mentioned in #37 peaked around the time when 'meccano-type' mechanical action components first appeared. These consisted of a range of piece parts like aluminium roller tubing which could easily be cut to length, etc. It made constructing actions much quicker than hitherto. However they simply weren't up to the job for a pedal action, to which large forces can be applied. There were an embarrassing number of breakages due to premature metal fatigue, as well as things like rollers and squares (i.e. cranks) jumping out of their bearings, etc.
Electropneumatic actions can indeed last for a very long time. There is one in Nottinghamshire, installed in 1937 by a local builder, which as far as I know is still working. It certainly was working about a decade ago, when BIOS examined the instrument at my suggestion and they sent me a copy of their report. It still had the original cotton covered wiring and most of the original electromechanical action components such as chest magnets and coupler (ladder) relays. Almost nothing had been done to it at that time apart from a few minor interventions (the latest known being in about 1962) to replace small items like reverser relays which had seized up owing to corrosion. Such longevity is far from unusual in good quality work.
CEP
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It would be a pity if we couldn't continue to discuss here what must rank as one of the most interesting new British organ projects in recent history. I know from my own experiences that one's sense of humour can sometimes be an unwitting barrier (I would claim to have one, but am equally aware it isn't universally shared!). This problem is probably more acute when conversing in writing rather than speaking face to face.
I wonder whether Philip Arkwright is a member of the forum? If not, that's our loss. But if he is, or if he feels moved to join, I for one would be extremely interested in what he might say, and would treat his contributions with the greatest respect of course. I'm sure that would go for all of us.
CEP
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Not sure if this will be of any help but there's one of apparently several piano arrangements here:
http://www.musicnotes.com/sheetmusic/mtdFPE.asp?ppn=MN0057494
(For which one has to pay of course).
CEP
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... The Marcussen was no match for a 5-piece bagpipe group. Although unusual, they played a very moving lament, wholly appropriate to the commemoration, and put paid to the claim that "bagpipe music" is an oxymoron. But it is easily the loudest thing I have ever heard in such a building.
Bagpipes are indeed tremendously loud, but it wasn't until a few years ago that I realised quite how loud. My wife and I were out for a country walk one Sunday morning near to where we live when we heard bagpipes start up in the distance. Odd to hear such a thing in the middle of Hampshire downland. As we returned to the car park we came across not only the ear-splitting volume of the instrument but the very friendly piper, with whom we had a most interesting conversation. Among other things, he told us that opportunities for practice were increasingly limited because the local council(s) had forbidden him to do it. He was imminently expecting a similar restriction to be placed on him in that area also. Hitherto I had not realised what a problem that can be for a piper, and was sorry that such restrictions were being placed on his art. At a suitable distance, I have always found the pipes very beautiful.
CEP
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Maybe SL's remarks (#78) explain why another organ forum does not even allow stop lists to be discussed!
CEP
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I'd like to be there, but unfortunately it's a bit beyond reach for me at present, partly because much of our time is occupied (pleasantly) with grandchildren. However one or two friends in that area might well attend. Almost a return to your roots?
Will anyone be doing a video which can be put on youtube?
Hope it goes well - I'm sure it will.
CEP
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That's most interesting and new to me. It makes sense, because there's certainly mention of the organ being used, e.g. during Walford Davies's radio talks (Thalben Ball extemporised his "Elegy" during one).
I don't like nitpicking, particularly in this case because I enjoy and learn much from what David writes, so forgive me. But according to Jonathan Rennert's biography of GTB, 'Elegy' was played at the end of one of Sir Walford's weekly choral evensong broadcasts from the BBC concert hall, rather than during a talk. Apparently, before this particular service Davies said "at the end play a beautiful melody". Afterwards he pronounced it "exactly right, absolutely perfect". But nitpicking it is nevertheless - everything else is right: Ball, Davies, the concert hall and Elegy.
Pace.
CEP
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Colin
Sadly, this one doesn't work without a sustaining pedal - or enormous hands!
Ian
Oops! There's Harvey Grace's organ arrangement in OUP's Book of Wedding Music (I don't have the exact title as it's so old it's lost its cover). If you have it, you will know the arrangement is very simple, and although it's for 2 manuals and includes a pedal part I imagine one could play the whole thing on one manual easily enough. I say this not having tried it though ...
CEP
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Myra Hess recorded a very beautiful piano rendition of it on a 78 rpm record either before or during World War II. Presumably it was her own arrangement which can be downloaded from:
http://www.danmansmusic.com/members/notation/pdf/27906x.pdf
This does not directly address your problem because you indicate you have a piano arrangement anyway. However it might conceivably be of interest.
CEP
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Skinner was indeed an odd character himself. Mercurial would be putting it mildly, in the sense that his views on many things oscillated wildly from one extreme to the other from one day to the next. To illustrate this, and to counter what Holden quoted (#771), he also said of Hope-Jones on another occasion:
"Your patience, research and experiment have done more than any one agency to
make the modern organ tone what it is. I think your invention of the leathered lip
will mean as much to organ tone as the Barker pneumatic lever did to organ action,
and will be as far-reaching in effect.I believe you were the first to recognize the importance of low voltage electric action,
and the world owes you its thanks for the round wire contact and inverted magnet.
Since I first became familiar with your work and writings, I have found them full of
helpful suggestions."And although H-J did indeed "work for" Skinner, it was in a high profile capacity as a Vice President. So perhaps one should say "worked with" rather than "worked for". So Skinner's subsequent complaints about him say as much about Skinner as Hope-Jones - no competent CEO should take on a new board member lightly, and there was therefore not much point in him crying loudly over spilt milk when it went wrong.
Nevertheless, the Holden snippet was useful to me while I was researching Hope-Jones's combination actions. One of the details on which I am still not entirely clear is how he worked the motorised stop keys in his organs with a mobile and distantly-detached console. They could scarcely have been electropneumatic, as in some of his other consoles (such as those at Battersea Town Hall and St Paul's and St Modwen's at Burton on Trent) because it is difficult to see how wind could have been provided to a console 150 feet or so away in some arbitrary position with respect to the organ itself. I have assumed, therefore, that he sometimes used a direct electric action of some sort with relatively powerful stop action magnets. The description of the noisy combination action at Hanover Square supports this hypothesis, though if anyone knows anything further I would be delighted to hear from them.
CEP
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I respect this Forum is not for discussion of toasters, but what I do strongly believe is that churches need to be 'educated' on the matter of longevity of electronic instruments. They have been successfully employed as short-term solutions during dedicated fund-raising for a pipe organ rebuild / replacement, but as a permanent replacement for a pipe organ, no. You are merely passing the replacement cost on to the next generation. Far better to bequeath a pipe organ.
Absolutely spot-on. I've spent more decades dealing with loudspeaker organs, and in more detail, than most still alive today (mainly because of my age and my profession), and what Nigel says concerning their lack of longevity in terms of their enabling technology cannot be denied by any honest and right-thinking person. So this is why this forum, dealing only with pipe organs, is the only one I contribute to.
Sorry to those who find me coming on a bit strong. Nuff said.
CEP
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'Morning Mood' from Peer Gynt? There are several different transcriptions for organ, some of which are on YouTube. Depending on how strongly you want to emphasise the 'bird' aspects, you could maybe go to town on the trills ...
Nice and easy as well, and people know it which always helps.
CEP
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I feel quite strongly that one should not practice a piece - in the basic sense of trying to get the notes and stops right - when a cathedral or important church is open. It drives me mad to hear it, let alone someone such as the average visitor with presumably less understanding and musical empathy. I'm not even sure it's always an appropriate use of the instrument when the place is closed, though of course one does have to practice registration changes somehow. But not, surely not, the notes themselves? Yes, I do loathe to hear that.
Each place seems to have its own culture and atmosphere I have found. I once had to play at Salisbury one summer evening and the only time I could fit in a bit of practice was that afternoon. It was heaving with visitors of course. On passing through the barrier I was asked to pay, which I would have willingly done, except I did explain to the gentle lady that I was about to play the organ. She beamed and said "Oh, how lovely" and would not take my piece of silver!
Arriving at the console I asked a nearby verger how loud I could play. He said he had no problem provided it would not be for hours on end, because "the visitors love it". One of the pieces was Stanford's Postlude on a theme of Orlando Gibbons (no. II in his opus 105). I'd worked it up note-wise impeccably on my home organ, and had also worked out a not-too-demanding registration schedule for Salisbury. So I ran through it a couple of times quietly, not piece-wise but completely on each occasion (i.e. none of that infuriating stop-start stuff which so many players do when practising), before trying out the final version. There's a tremendous climax at the end of course, and afterwards I got applause! So the verger was right - the visitors did enjoy it. I didn't run through it again until that evening.
At the opposite extreme I've been in two places, one being a very posh church in Battersea, where the verger on both occasions came up and turned off the blower in the middle of a piece. And on both these occasions I was only practising to relieve the titulaire at his request.
This was so different to what I have encountered at Salisbury. I think it might have been Simon Lole (or possibly one of his then-recent predecessors) who said that the cathedral regarded the organ as a public resource in the best sense. That view certainly comes over.
CEP
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The answer is to buy a secondhand CRT portable TV.
I'm afraid there are several misunderstandings in the mind of whomsoever posted that advice, John. However this is not an AV forum. But I did get to the LOL stage on reading "buy a secondhand CRT portable TV". BUY, BUY? I don't think so. I had a couple of these in the loft until only the other week and even charity shops wouldn't take them. So they went to landfill instead, into a special skip which was crammed to the brim with them, all smashed to smithereens of course. So if you can find any at all, their owner ought to be paying you to take them away I think!
CEP
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Rather different to the Hope-Jones organ at Worcester cathedral which Elgar liked, or at least, didn't positively dislike (inter alia, having offered to demonstrate it to Dora Penny of 'Enigma Variations' fame).
Wonder what he would have thought of this new one? Will they be playing his Sonata on it at some point?
In reply to the question above, I haven't heard it live but there are some Youtube recordings of it. This one is of reasonable audio quality:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ri9HSwhN9Wc
CEP
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In the old analogue TV days a few years ago one could get time of day on-screen (e.g. when viewing teletext) accurate to far better than one second - you could see the seconds counter 'ticking' away. With the move to digital TV this is no longer possible, which is why time is displayed only to the nearest minute. The amount of time delay is undefined, and is especially uncertain if there is an internet- type (packet switching) protocol somewhere in the transmission chain because the receiving element (your TV) has to wait until it has assembled a whole screen's worth of info in its memory before it can be displayed. And there is indeed a difference between the audio and video delays, which is sometimes compensated for but sometimes not.
This does not help solve the problem, but merely confirms what others have said. However it might assist to know that the term for this which most tecchies will understand is 'latency', next time you are dealing with firms such as PC World, Maplin, etc, etc! (And if they didn't know what it means, they will be dead impressed with your smartness as a customer).
CEP
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This is a kind offer Denis, to let us have first refusal. Would there be any chance of seeing a list of the titles? I have a fairly extensive library but there are still the odd holes in it.
CEP
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St John's, Weymouth:
http://www.npor.org.uk/NPORView.html?RI=N10008
One of those instruments which somehow seem comfortable and inviting and with much to explore tonally even for a small organ. Somehow very refined, with almost a Rolls-Royce feel. This always made it difficult to leave and switch off the blower. The last time I was there it was a wedding at which I played at the invitation of the family. It coped with 'the Widor' quite well even wihout a pedal reed, and some in the bridal party were visibly moved by it - I suspect this was the instrument rather than my playing.
I haven't played there for some while now so cannot speak for the organ as it might be today, though it had been very well cared for when I last played it. It confirmed my opinion that Harrisons, or at least some of them, are certainly different, in a positive sense, to what one generally encounters.
CEP
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Is Sydney's trombone 64 foot long or half (or less) length? Is the Atlantic City diaphone is 64 foot long?
Affirmative to both questions I think, even though the following evidence doesn't quite confirm in so many words whether the resonators themselves are full length, but it implies they are. There's a not-terribly-good picture of a youngish-looking George Thalben-Ball pointing to the tongue of the Sydney reed pipe in Jonathan Rennert's biography of him. The caption says that the pipe was said to be the largest in the southern hemisphere. This would not have been so if the stop used half length resonators. The pneumatic starter motor which gives the tongue an initial shove is clearly visible.
The organ builder Patrick Burns confirmed that the Atlantic City Diaphonic Dulzian is a true 64 foot stop (the resonator at the base is 10 inches square, becoming over 2 feet square at the top. The vibrating tongue is 31 inches long, 3 inches wide, 7/16th inches thick and weighs 14 pounds. The pipe is made from 3 inches thick timber). See his article in The IAO Millennium Book.
(Incidentally, can I ask a question that I've posed for years to lots of people without ever getting an answer - where the heck do you put your music at Atlantic City? There's some sort of hinged music desk which I've seen let down to a reasonable viewing level, but then it obscures some of the top keyboards).
CEP
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Vox Humana: please enlighten me as to the ID of this ‘Foghorn’.
That might reveal more than the identity of the organ itself ...
I do know, but it would go against forum netiquette to broadcast either piece of information!
It's a slight pity though, because some valid points have been made about this instrument which would be all the more interesting were its identity known to members.
CEP
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I agree with SL. What on earth can this remark mean? Who's redacted what, where and when? Or maybe we are only now finding out what's happening because of leaks from Edward Snowden? Or Julian Assange?
(I jest of course, but it's nevertheless a slightly odd remark).
CEP
Wireless Consoles
in Nuts and bolts
Posted
I guess many forum members will have seen the article which has just appeared in the June 2015 edition of Organists' Review about the Lord Mayor's chapel organ in Bristol with wi-fi transmission which was the subject of this thread. This makes the material more accessible to a wider readership than the previous version which was only circulated within the IBO.
For the benefit of readers who do not take OR, the article was written by Paul Hale though with quite a lot contributed by the builders (Clevedon Organs). Beyond the quotes below I won't comment further as people will no doubt make up their own minds about this interesting scheme. Among much else, the builders said:
"Another unique feature is the remote diagnostics facility, whereby the organ can be connected vai the Internet to the Slovakian HQ for analysis should a fault arise. Indeed, it is possible to play the organ through the Internet ... "
At the end of the article, Paul Hale asked:
"So, will wireless remote-control for mobile consoles catch on and prove reliable?"
CEP