Rowland Wateridge
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Posts posted by Rowland Wateridge
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On 15/10/2022 at 19:24, Martin Cooke said:
Ha - yes, indeed something like that for sure - and thank you so much, SloOrg - but can't I year a second treble part? My ears are getting old!!
Helpfully it is set to Psalm 122 in the Lincoln Psalter and there is, indeed, a second treble part. I’m afraid repeated efforts to copy it here have failed after numerous attempts!
I think I should add that SlowOrg’s transcription is very close to the ‘real thing’ which is actually written out on four staves!
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15 hours ago, Martin Cooke said:
Having just read an extraordinarily depressing account of the new Aubertin pipe organ in St Birinus, Dorchester on Thames on Facebook - ("Musically, this instrument is an abomination") …
Firstly, I neither know the Church nor the organ which hasn’t yet made it to NPOR, doubtless as it is new. St Birinus is a Roman Catholic Church and uses Gregorian chant. I wonder whether the critic was judging the organ from other criteria than its principal function. Also, Aubertin generally enjoy a very high reputation. I’m sure Nigel Alllcoat would be in a position to comment.
From this photograph it is self-evident that the design and finish are of the highest craftsmanship.
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Winchester Cathedral: Tuba (Willis 1897/8) versus Tromba (Harrison & Harrison 1938). Another short clip from Richard McVeigh demonstrating and contrasting the two high pressure solo reeds. Both used to be voiced on 18” pressure, but I don’t guarantee that this is now up to date. Both are very refined examples without any of the ‘honking’ effect which Ralph Downes objected to (in fact he admired Father Willis Tubas). Richard mentions the Tuba Clarion, but we do not hear it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jx-TO56lavM
The Tromba is enclosed and is a very versatile alternative. I’m sure Alwyn Surplice used it for soloing the tune, sometimes in the tenor register, in hymn accompaniments back in the 1950s/ 60s when I first heard the organ regularly. At the time of the H&H 1986/88 rebuild, when major changes were planned with a specific brief to restore (as far as possible) the original Willis sound, I asked Martin Neary whether the Tromba would be retained. He replied “Certainly, it’s a fine reed”. Interestingly, he used it in the tenor register as the solo voice in Franck’s ‘Cantabile’ with the box partially closed. For trumpet-sounding fanfares, David Hill’s Sibelius ‘Finlandia’ takes some beating. I can’t say whether for this he used one or both stops.
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“Fair waved the golden corn, in Canaan’s pleasant land” to the tune with the (recently topical) name ‘Holyrood’. Wakefield Cathedral choir have made a recording of the hymn on YouTube and there’s at least one recording of the tune played on a Hele organ in Cornwall.
I haven’t checked current hymnals, but I think “Fair waved the golden corn“ is in AMR. I don’t now recall the occasion, but I heard it sung at Evensong in Salisbury Cathedral, in the days of Richard Seal, to the tune ‘Sandys’.
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I won’t prolong this, but have just read minutes ago in another national newspaper that the Queen “lied in state”.
What on earth is happening to our national standards?
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4 hours ago, S_L said:
The Daily Mail article was a disgrace but not, I would suggest, unexpected.
Gracious, was this actually an article? I assumed they were the kind of crank ‘letters to the Editor’ which one can also find in other newspapers. But John Furse is right: it demonstrates the most lamentable ignorance, not just musical, but factual as well. I wonder whether non-churchgoers would, for example, baulk at the harmonies in Howells’ tune ‘Michael’ and think they are mistakes by the organist or singers.
I wonder whether anyone will reply to the ‘Mail’ and whether they will publish it.
Looking again at the words of the hymns, chosen by her late Majesty, one is struck how appropriate they all are both to the occasion; and as a testament of her own Christian faith.
7 hours ago, John Furse said:There can be few occasions when standards of excellence (by the Abbey musicians) in all respects have been exceeded so greatly. 10+ for every aspect.
I could not agree more strongly.
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I doubt that anyone will reply to the Daily Mail, or that they would publish it, or understand a considered response.
Astonishing, and desperately sad, but I’m afraid ignorance reigns about church music. Vox Humana went a lot further when this subject was discussed previously, lamenting the lack of musical knowledge and low esteem in which ‘classical’ music generally (and one might add organ music especially) is held in this country. There are, of course, honourable exceptions and I follow the fortunes of aspiring young musicians under the wings of the Royal College of Music, but fear that their future and livelihood are largely dependent on a limited audience. Of course there are the Proms, as to which opinions vary. They have extended their range to include popular and light music, as to which opinion is divided whether that is good thing.
What the Daily Mail commenters do not know, or do not understand, is that the entire service (apart from the new commissions presumably) was planned and chosen by the late Queen personally. I’m sure Elton John would have been available if he had been wanted, but that was not the character of this service or, I suspect, the taste of her late Majesty. Odd, at least to me, that anyone should think that appropriate in a funeral or memorial service for the death of the Sovereign.
S_L, I’m afraid we are a minority and looked on as obsolete dinosaurs! Years ago a lay reader looked over my shoulder while I was playing and asked “Did he really write that chord?” The answer was yes, and ‘he’ was Brahms!
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Well said, Martin. I struggled yesterday to find adequate words to describe the musical and spiritual magnificence of both services. Racking my brains, I can’t recall a service of such splendour from Westminster Abbey. Although I watched the late Queen’s Coronation, it’s not possible to include that in any comparison for a variety of reasons. The Archbishop of Canterbury’s gentle admonition to world leaders of their own transient importance was reflected in the final verse of “The day Thou gavest”, chosen by her late Majesty herself: “So be it, Lord; thy throne shall never, like earth’s proud empires, pass away; thy kingdom stands, and grows for ever, till all thy creatures own thy sway.” Food for thought indeed to those exalted leaders and a remarkable reflection on our late Queen’s choosing it. But you are right that the commemorations, and the music, catered for and have reached out to everyone.
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5 hours ago, John Furse said:
Others may cavil at that last word, given current sensitivities. There are, of course, few, if any, better royal marches than Walton’s.
I have no problem with ‘Imperial’, but I was born in the tail-end of that era. We celebrated ‘Empire Day’ when I was primary school age - not sure when that died out - is there an equivalent ‘Commonwealth Day’?
Walton’s ‘Orb and Sceptre’ would be an alternative. It’s on the cards, I suspect, that either or both are already included in any plans, although it will be interesting to see, as Martin suggests, any new additions to this particular repertoire.
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Well, I don’t think you have said anything that Martin and I do not already know. It’s most certainly not the first time that the subject has been discussed on the Board. Far from being ‘insignificant’ what ‘we’ grew up with has shaped the faith of very many people. I accept there is room for both traditional and modern liturgies. The subject is relevant to clergy, laity and musicians alike, particularly organists, and so in no way inappropriate on the Mander Board although, I accept, not directly the specific subject of the Memorial Service.
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Fortunately not everywhere, Martin. I have officially retired from playing, but up to and including my final services at two churches, we used the Authorised Version and BCP for every service of Matins and Evensong, and they still do. In these country churches a service of Communion only monthly (something which horrifies people who have adopted the Eucharist, usually if not invariably in a ‘modern form’, as their ‘main’ service every Sunday), in one church we continued with BCP and the AV, the other church using the modern forms.
It may be that the BCP and AV are retained more in rural churches where the urge for change is less prevalent. The sad corollary, however, is that Matins and Evensong, and their traditional language, are largely unknown to many churchgoers in places where the Family Eucharist has supplanted both.
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Thank you, Martin. This was the kind of comment I hoped to see! Due to my late start, I missed the Howells and the Harris. I expected the latter to be included, not necessarily due to the Windsor connection although that is an obvious one. One of the musical experiences of my life was a service at St George’s Chapel, Windsor more than 60 years ago and the playing of Sir William Harris on that occasion. And the canticles were by Stanford, although I no longer remember which one.
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Oh dear, I really didn’t want to introduce a contentious element, especially at the present time, but any statement, however well-intentioned, made in 2022 seems to result in contradiction and admonition. I would have welcomed some constructive discussion of the music and the general character of the liturgy. I only caught the tail end of the service.
I’m now 81 and remember a time when everyone would have known and sung the National Anthem on such an occasion. I think it is valid to reflect and comment on that change, and the reasons for it.
Had I known, I would have opted out of the BBC commentary.
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1 hour ago, DRL said:
I enjoyed the music, with the exception of the bagpipes.
I have been fending off wholesale criticism of the service music by someone on another blog, the bagpipes being the only item which met with their approval!
1 hour ago, DRL said:I thought the congregation was very attentive; they had all made an effort to be there, so the occasion had significance for them all.
I hope I wasn’t unkind about the congregation, and it’s good that your impression was different.
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I only saw part of yesterday’s memorial service and it would be good to have the views of other Board members.
I thought the singing by the St Paul’s choir and the organ accompaniments were superlative, and congratulations to Andrew Carwood and the respective organists. Unfortunately, the BBC felt it necessary, although with some justification, to explain in detail what was happening, at times even talking over the sung parts of the service. The congregation was clearly of very mixed musical knowledge and abilities, and noticeable that a significant number did not know, or were unable to sing, the words of the National Anthem. Possibly the highlight, of what I personally experienced, was Stanford’s Nunc Dimittis in G, beautifully sung and accompanied. The service closed with GT-B’s ‘Elegy’ but, regrettably, talked-over, and even faded out by the BBC.
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There are two earlier threads!
St John’s, Cambridge, May 2021 in “The Organ”:This refers to a still earlier thread -St Peter’s, Brighton, November 2009 in “General Discussion”: -
Indeed, and I used to know people who both remembered him and were taught by him. He donated a stop to the new organ. He was succeeded by Richard Marlow who, however, did not stay very long.
Heathcote Statham was a pre-WW II predecessor and, I am quite certain, this was the source of confusion with Alwyn Surplice who was at Windsor in the relevant years.
The pre-war organ, destroyed with much of the church in WW II bombing, was an 1879/ 1894 Father Willis which HW III further worked on in 1931. As mentioned above, HW III was able to include some Father Willis pipework in the 1956 replacement instrument.
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No experience as a player, but recollections of Ralph Downes talking about two instruments at the London Oratory and hearing him play them.
He was certainly involved as Consultant in the St Mary, Chigwell organ, 1963 Walker (EP) 27 speaking stops, NPOR N01148.
On a memorable association visit to the RFH he confided that he preferred his organ in the Oratory Church, 1952/54 Walker (EP) 45 speaking stops, NPOR N18498. I’m not sure that he went as far as saying it was his favourite. This might not qualify as small, although clearly smaller. His other organ is in the ‘Little Oratory’, 1975 Flentrop (tr) 16 speaking stops housed in a beautiful case, NPOR N08959 (sadly no photographs). Both were totally to his design of course. Others may be able to contribute their playing experiences and details of other possible instruments by him. The larger ones are well known and have been discussed on earlier threads.
I had brief dealings with him when arranging the visit to the RFH. He was very courteous, taking considerable trouble including providing printed meticulous programme notes, complete with his registrations, of repertoire extending over several centuries. Of the RFH organ’s versatility and his own playing, by then in his 80s, I think, no one could have been left in any possible doubt.
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A very late addition on the subject of St Mary’s. On an earlier thread, the then organist of St Mary’s commented that it was odd that the oldest members of his choir had no recollection of Alwyn Surplice being the organist there. Very simply, he never was, and this is a clear case of mistaken identity. As mentioned above, Heathcote Statham was organist of St Mary’s. So far as I am aware, the only ‘parish’ position which Alwyn Surplice held was Holy Trinity, Windsor (also the Garrison Church) itself linked to St George’s Chapel where Surplice was successively Assistant and Sub-Organist before his two cathedral appointments, Bristol and Winchester.
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Rather strangely, Winchester Cathedral has, or had, a bench shaped with three forward bulges in the Llanrhaeadr orientation. I have no idea whether it was unique; I was certainly surprised when I first saw it. It would not have any connection with Hope-Jones. I have a pre-WW II photograph of Harold Rhodes sitting on it (and playing - not apparently one of those posed pictures) and it then had a substantial back rest or support which had gone by the time I saw it. I don’t know whether it is still there. I think all other Willis and H&H benches I have seen have been straight but, of course, there may be individual exceptions where the incumbent organist asked for one. I suspect the ‘backward’ facing bench at Pilton is probably explained by the organist’s preference for a straight edge. I think the most bizarre, certainly unusual, benches I have seen were with the two Rothwell consoles at St George’s, Windsor, both incorporating a swivelling ‘captain’s chair’.
Incidentally, possibly for future discussion, Hope-Jones set up as an independent organ builder in Elmira, New York State, with quite a substantial workforce, possibly twenty or more, including several women, before the connection with Wurlitzer. He floated a company there, built a very large organ in the main church of Elmira and hosted a mini-convention which included a large group of organ and other visiting worthies (a photograph of the occasion shows him with the mayor and Mark Twain). When I visited Elmira about twenty years ago, there was a substantial exhibition devoted to Hope-Jones in the main local museum. Mark Twain was an Elmira resident and invested in the H-J company, but lost out (seemingly substantially) when the company folded. I’m sure there must have been other, and possibly also large, organs by H-J during this early period in USA, but that has to be a matter for further research..
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Two further offerings from Richard McVeigh at Winchester. Firstly Fantasia in G “Pièce d’Orgue” BWV 572, a live performance recorded on 11 August 2022.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBLTOgPp5qE
And a snapshot of Winchester’s famous (or infamous, depending on your view) 32’ Pedal Contra Bombarde known as ‘Big Bertha’, or more intimately, simply “Bertha”, originally Hele 1905, modified in 1938 by Harrison & Harrison when “slightly reduced in power to afford more general utility”. We can only conjecture what she sounded like before! Richard recommends a second listening with headphones. There are comments by at least one Board member and others stating their preferred 32’ pedal reeds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoJyrLmT0Os
As usual, you may need to skip Ads.
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Well, I’m glad that a post about Franck in his Bicentenary year has produced discussion, if not unanimity! In fact I started this thread by mistake - another senior moment - believing that we had already reached the anniversary when, in fact, it falls on 10th December.
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13 minutes ago, S_L said:
I know the D minor symphony well - and I maintain it to be a work of tedious mediocrity!!
I have heard it described as “organ music transcribed for orchestra”! I like it, but haven’t heard a performance for many years.
Extraordinary situations
in The Organ
Posted
St Birinus post-dates the ‘Dark Ages’ if we are using the term historically rather than possibly the extent of our own knowledge of that period. St Birinus, in fact, represents an era of enlightenment. As a bishop, having set up his see at Dorchester, Oxfordshire, he transferred it to Winchester, becoming the first Bishop of Winchester in the present succession of more than 1,300 years. For long he was one of the saints, along with St Peter and St Paul and St Swithun, in the dedication of Winchester Cathedral.
I have learned something new from a quick foray in Wikipedia. Birinus landed at the port of St Mary circa 634 AD at what is now Southampton, and that was when the first church of St Mary’s, Southampton came into being. The present church is a direct successor on the same site. It and its Willis III organ have figured prominently on this Board.