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    Designing a Pipe Organ

    in Nuts and bolts

    Posted

    Well these drawings aren't perfect but I think they're fine. The design of the organ case or facade of my house organ is something I find to be a bit of a challenge in its self as while the specification is one thing designing a case that works under a low ceiling without looking flattened is another.

    The first design is based on an organ I stumbled across just after creating this thread.

    http://www.orgelbauschreier.de/anwalting.html

    1456117486_houseorganartwork3(2)small.jpg.c495aed8856f4dea7370d6c2984c24c6.jpg

    There's a couple of things I wished I had foreseen before I did the outline for this picture, one is a mistake with the pipes in the left tower and the other is realising that radiating pedal boards aren't easy to draw in a 2D. The colour scheme was a bit of an experiment as I probably would go for a pine colour rather than white. Although another colour scheme that I think may work is one similar to the Utopia Baroque organ at Orgelpark in Amsterdam.

    The second design I've done is based on an Estey reed organ. With the case height being a problem I have often turned to pip top reed organs and even what could be refer to as digital pipe tops for inspiration. I quite like the design of the pipe facade of this Estey organ but I'm still concerned it may be a little too tall for an 8' ceiling. I think the problem is that a triangular pipe arrangement needs a fair bit of height, although that may depend on how wide the organ case is.

    601339725_houseorganartwork2(2)small.jpg.99c0434ff92248e6c9ac77ecd8149cc8.jpg

    To be honest I don't think this drawing came out as well as the previous one, the pipe work isn't great as I was kind of impatient to get this drawing done. Plus there are a couple of errors with the organ case that I didn't notice until after I did the out line.

    Edit

    Another thing I realised just a few days ago while going through my files was that a few years ago I had made a couple of case designs using in a computer program called Lego Digital Designer.  

    65449801_pipeorgan.01small.png.1f97bc46ba550e88ad412c238d3ed2d0.png

    1954320378_pipeorgan.05small.png.32a6ef54abc190c9630e9491a9e3d97c.png

    1220842025_pipeorgan.04small.png.8b9f0509ce3a512c2afc20516a442662.png

     

     

     

     

     

     

    How popular are house organs?

    in Nuts and bolts

    Posted

    I just remembered a company called Orgue de Plaisance-du-Gers had a while ago released a series of extension organs called the Modulorgue B2. The instruments consist of two ranks of pipes but the case designs can verie depending on the space the instrument is intended for.

    I find these organs two be quite attractive but I wonder if an organ like this would appeal to people as even for an extension organ having just two ranks of pipes feels like a hard sell.

    http://www.modulorgue.com/modulb2.html

     

    Anywhere Pipe Organs

    in Nuts and bolts

    Posted

    On 23/06/2020 at 18:31, Tony Newnham said:

    Hi

    I can add one more - a small (2 rank IIRC) 2 manual organ built by our hosts here for Rick Wakeman.  I understand that he still has the instrument but that it's currently out of use.

    I'd be interested in links to the info on the various instruments you list, Niccolo. Compact at church - 2mp, and Viscount also sell a 2m with optional stand & pedals in their Cantorum range (not to mention the single manual keyboard style organs by Viscount & others)

    In the realm of electronic "organs" a couple of firms are building portable versions of some of their small organs.  I have a Content 224

    Every Blessing

    Tony

    Sorry for the late reply, but anyway yes I see what you mean about adding links. My original intention was to just list both the name of the instrument and the artist or builder as I felt like that would be enough for anyone to track down the instruments, but thinking about it now it probably would help to include a link to a page or article.

    I've also decided to included a section for pipe organs that are not designed to be moved to different venues but are designed to be moved around within the space they are installed in. 

    Pipe Organs

    Electronic Organs

    Semi Portable Pipe Organs

    Portable Pipe Organ proposals

    • Orgue à Structure Variable – Jean Guillou 1930 – 2019

                https://web.archive.org/web/20121115093815/http://osvguillou.pagesperso-orange.fr/index.htm

    • The Grand Positive – Niccolo Morandi, available whenever

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UN_rAx8lWxY

    A couple of the organs I have removed as I found little to no information on. One was a portable organ built by the Kimball organ company and the other was a touring organ used by the organist Pierre Cochereau. The portable organ built by kimball I had only heard about from another forum and the touring organ of Pierre Cochereau I have seen photographs online. Looking back I feel like I probably should have left some of the instruments off the list until I had some information to back them up.

    I had also heard that Edward George Power Biggs also had a small touring organ but I never include it on the list as I couldn't find a single mention of this organ anywhere.

     

     

     

     

    Concerning pipes and sound

    in Nuts and bolts

    Posted

    10 hours ago, John Robinson said:

    Absolutely no apologies needed!

    I found your explanations both interesting and enlightening and I agree with them entirely.  I might add that I respect and enjoy the benefit of your far greater knowledge of the subject.

    I have heard for myself that organs with relatively low wind pressure can be at least as 'loud' as the high-pressure ones which held sway in this country in the early 20th century.  There are far more important factors in play: location within the building, the building itself, the use of strong mixtures, etc, etc.

    My personal preference has always been for a brighter sound, especially since my hearing has begun to deteriorate!

    I find what you said regarding organs with low wind pressure rather interesting, as this is something that I have wondered about.

    I was recently looking at the specification of a rather impressive organ built for a university in Houston Texas and I recall reading somewhere that this massive organ has very small scale pipe work. However when I went back to check on the description of this organ I couldn't find where I had read this, so I'm unsure if that is true or if I may have just imagined that.

    http://cbfisk.com/opus/opus-109/

    This isn't the first time this has happened as I remember once reading in an article about the organ at Holy Trinity Cathedral in New Zealand that the pipes were suppose to be on a mid or small scale but I can't find where I read that. Plus looking at the size of the instrument and the space it seems unlikely that the pipes would be on a small scale.

    http://www.nicholsonorgans.co.uk/pf/auckland/

    Anywhere Pipe Organs

    in Nuts and bolts

    Posted

    Recently I've come up with the idea to put together a list documenting various touring or portable pipe organs. Besides Reginald Foort's touring organ it's difficult to find information on any other portable pipes organs, as many of the organs I'm aware of I have discovered purely by accident.

    So anyway here is a list I've put together documenting both pipe and electronic portable organs, along with the names of the artist or builders.

    Pipe Organs

     

    • Orchestrion – Georg Joseph Vogler 1746 – 1814

    • Portable Pipe Organ – W. W. Kimball Organ Company

    • Link Unit Organ – Charles Sharpe Minor 1885 – 1957

    • Touring Organ by Harrison & Harrison – George Thomas Pattman 1875 – 1961

    • Moller Opus 6690 – Reginald Foort 1893 – 1980

    • Organo Portativo – Giorgio Questa 1929 – 2010

    • Portable Organ – Pierre Cochereau 1924 – 1984

    • Open air konzert Orgel – Hoffmann & Schindler Organ Builders

    • Mobile Orgue – Plaisance du Gers Organ Builders

    • Anywhere Organ – Mathew Borgatti

    • The Flavour Conductor – Mander Organ Builders

    • Orgue du Voyage – Jean Baptiste Monnot 1984 –

    • Organo Wanderer – Paolo Oreni 1979 –

     

    Electronic Organs

     

    • Black Beauty – Virgil Fox 1912 – 1980

    • Allen Touring Organ – Carlo Curley 1952 – 2012

    • Allen Touring Organ – Virgil Fox 1912 – 1980

    • Rogers Touring Organ – Felix Hell 1985 –

    • Touring Organ – Raul Prieto Ramirez

    • International Touring Organ – Cameron Carpenter 1981 –

     

    There is probably still other organs out there but I'm impressed with what I have done so far considering this kind of feels like trying to document steam powered airplanes or 21st century steam locomotives.

     

     

    York Minster organ rebuild

    in Nuts and bolts

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Vox Humana said:

    I don't do organ DVDs because, quite frankly, I'm not committed enough to the instrument, but it seems to me that the problem with the traditional British organ is that it hasn't generated any really great music that justifies the medium. Such decent music as has been written for it sounds - or would sound - infinitely more convincing when orchestrated.  He obvious candidate is the Elgar Sonata, but it would be equally true of Whitlock, all of whose output would benefit immensely from orchestration. There probably are odd exceptions to my sweeping statement, but I can't think of them offhand.

    I shall now duck for cover, but please remember that, 'sending the boys round' is against government guidelines. :) 

    For some reason when I think of English organ music I think of the Australian organist Thomas Heywood.

    Designing a Pipe Organ

    in Nuts and bolts

    Posted

    12 hours ago, Contrabombarde said:

    Oh do be more ambitious! Three manuals? Check. 16 foot pedal? Check. May I present this example:

    https://www.npor.org.uk/NPORView.html?RI=N01165

    I played it many moons ago on an organ crawl and most impressive it was, not least for being able to pack an eight stop three manual into a case seemingly no bigger than many two manual 8482 practice instruments.

    Or even more ambitious, https://www.npor.org.uk/NPORView.html?RI=N04526

    More ambitious still, and with a resultant 32 foot in the pedals, https://www.npor.org.uk/NPORView.html?RI=N04594#PhotoSection

    Yes I see what you mean about being a bit more ambitious. I don't think I've talked much about the specification I have in mind but at the moment it contains somewhere around 14 ranks. Plus that number also include 6 ranks at 8' pitch along with a single rank at 16' stopped pipe, and above all that it would all have to fit into a case similar in size to the Henry Mills & Son organ you recommended. but who knows, looking at the size of the specification of the Henry Mills organ I think it's just over the half way point.

    Hopefully in the following days (or when I get round to it) I will upload some concept art and maybe include a specification.

     

     

    Designing a Pipe Organ

    in Nuts and bolts

    Posted

    Yeah I think creating a specification based off of other organs is probably the best thing to do.

    There is also one thing that I really would like to include in the design of my organ and that is a third manual. obviously that would be a lot for a small instrument but I have a couple of ideas that may help. One idea (which is quite common in house organs) is having a coupler manual which I'm confident that it could be a benefit, however this isn't going to be quite the same as a manual with independent stops.

    Another idea I'm interested in utilising is a duplex system where a division is shared across two keyboards. I understand that with this system the stops can only be drawn on one manual at a time and not both, but I'm confident that this is a drawback I can live with.

    Designing a Pipe Organ

    in Nuts and bolts

    Posted

    8 hours ago, SlowOrg said:

    How about some wonderful technical drawings of Cavillé-Coll organs? French digital library “Gallica” has a couple of those:

    Dessins de mécanismes d'orgues

    Plans du grand orgue de Saint-Sulpice

    Coupes de claviers

    Orgues de tous modèles (these aren’t exactly technical drawings, but are nonetheless interesting to explore).

    M

    Thank you, they're beautiful designs

     

    But yeah I suspected that I don't really need to go so far as to create a complete fleshed out design showing the exact dimensions of every pipe along with all of the components.

    To be honest all I really want to do is create a concept art of a pipe organ along with a specification to go with it.

    I guess the reason why I'm so concerned about the dimensions of organ pipes is that in order to draw up specification I need to know how much space each rank is going to take up, plus I'm concerned that I am a bit ambitious with wanting to fit so much into a small amount of space.

    Designing a Pipe Organ

    in Nuts and bolts

    Posted

    Some of you who have seen some of my past comments regarding small organs may be aware that I have expressed an interest in one day owning a real pipe organ. Whether this ambition will ever become a reality I don't know, but one thing that I would like to do is draw up a design for a pipe organ.

    Obviously this isn't going to get me much further to achieving my goal but it's all I can really do for for now.

    My problem is that although I have drawn quite a few pipe organs in the past I have never drawn an organ that is to scale. Or a plan detailing where the pipes and components would be placed inside an organ case.

    How popular are house organs?

    in Nuts and bolts

    Posted

    Yes I think it is quite an attractive little instrument. I'm really not a fan of the idea of notes on the swell coming from pipes that are outside of the swell box, but I guess what else can you do if there is no room inside the organ. I think it is still possible to accompany the swell division quite comfortably on this organ using the 8' bass stop with the pedals uncoupled.

    How popular are house organs?

    in Nuts and bolts

    Posted

    One thing I have been wanting to discuss for a while regarding the Skrabl organ is the style of music it's designed for. To me I feel these organs are fine for baroque music but probably not so good for say music from the romantic era.

    There is one organ I stumbled across that I kind the design of which is a small 8 rank organ that I'm curious as to what some of you think of compared to the Skrabl organ. https://pipeorgandatabase.org/organ/10179

    I suspect this would probably be due to the fact that in a more romantic leaning organ you would need 8' principle and string stops which wouldn't be as easy to fit into a tight space compared to something like a stopped 8' flute.

    32ft flues

    in Nuts and bolts

    Posted

    Thank you Sprondel

    The bit about maintenance is good point as I have seen pictures of the odd house organ where on the out side it looks like an attractive instrument until you see pictures of the inside where the pipes are packed in as tight as the Xbox 360.

    32ft flues

    in Nuts and bolts

    Posted

    To confess there probably isn't that much of a mystery surrounding the specification of the Nelson organ at St. Bartholomaus as some of the stops such as some of the stops probably are extensions. And the 32' Contra Bourdon and Principle probably are resultants, and I guess the 32' Bombard could fit if it had half length resonators.

    I feel like I kind of got a little obsessive over the design of this organ as the specification doesn't list any additional information about some of the stops.

    Sometimes I wonder if I underestimate how much you can fit into an organ case.

    32ft flues

    in Nuts and bolts

    Posted

    Well my question has nothing to do with the Gockel organ. What I'm asking is how can the Nelson organ have such an elaborate specification but particularly three 32' stops in such a modest size case?

    32ft flues

    in Nuts and bolts

    Posted

    Besides the mystery surrounding the 32' and the use of extensions in the Nelson organ and St. Bartholomaus I still find the specification of this instrument pretty incredible for an organ of this size two have three open diapasons on the great and a trumpet on each manual.

    One thing about the website for the organ builder Elmar Krawinkel is that there does appears to be different listing for the two organs at St. Bartholomaus under the German translation of the website, only this one is more up to date and does have a detailed description of the instruments.

    Unfortunately there still isn't any mention of the 32' contra bourdon and double open bass and if any of the stops are extensions but it does state quite clearly that a 32' contra bombard was add to the Nelson organ 2011.

    https://www.orgelbau-krawinkel.de/orgelprojekte/transfer/orgel-st-bartholomaeus-gackenbach.php

    32ft flues

    in Nuts and bolts

    Posted

    I'm not sure if this a question many people would know the answer to but it's worth a try. So anyway some of you may have seen a video by the Youtuber Fraser Gartshore demonstrating both an French and English Romantic style organ, but one thing I can't get my head around is how the English organ contains so much in such a modest amount of space.

    I suspect some of the stops are clearly extensions or borrowed as I can't imagine that each stop listed is an independent rank. But what I really can't get my head around is the three 32' stops. A 32' reed I think would be possible to fit into a tight space but a 32' Contra Bourdon even if it were an extension I just can't imagine would be possible to fit inside that organ unless it was located somewhere out side of the case.  

    So my question is does anyone think that the 32' Contra Bourdon and Double Open Bass in this organ could be real or are either resultants or digital samples?    

     

     

     

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