Shropshire Lad

I am after advice on this. I'm looking for arrangements of any of the concerto's for organ only for the organist with modest resources and even more modest ability! Preferably manuals and pedals where possible. I'm not even sure whether such arrangements exist or not so any help is appreciated.

Have any of the contributors affected by the Cathedral staff emailed them regarding their experiences or showed them the discussion here? You never know it may be helpful if change is to be brought about.

I think it's going to be another interesting debate this! Worcester Cathedral scenario all over again. Having played the existing Manchester Cathedral organ and the new Tickell instrument in Worcester Cathedral, I hope the results are just as successful at Manchester after the new organ is installed. If they are, which I'm sure they will be, then all the arguments will soon die down I'm sure of that.

I was privileged to hear Dr Francis Jackson play his recital at the Minster on August 14th which for me was a milestone. Despite being the modest age of 37!, I've always wanted to hear FJ, one of my heroes, play and at long last it was worth the wait. It was great to see an organist use hand registration, departmental pistons and use of swell pedal in the Bach (shock horror!) I can just about remember hearing GTB live although that feels an age ago. Having limited knowledge of the Minster, I was wandering why the nave console wasn't used for the recital. Presumably it would give the audience greater visibility and also mean that the audience were sat in the position where the majority of the organ speaks. I couldn't help feeling that I was sat behind the organ whilst sat in the quire area which I suppose I was. Is this traditional for the audience to be sat in the quire or does this vary from concert to concert?

A different recording of Raúl Prieto Ramírez playing Duruflé Suite Op. 5 (Toccata). Every time I hear this guy play, I get more and more impressed. Hopefully, I will get to hear him live before too long.

I've just seen the new syllabus and wandered what the views of the members were? The Thalben-Ball Elegy is in the grade 7 syllabus and I thought the piece is on the easy side for that grading (presumably they are referring to the b flat elegy)?

I personally couldn't care a less who makes the pipes. I care a great deal more how good they sound though. This discussion is getting far too deep for me!! Isn't it about time for a return of the prodigal son that is "Cynic", to get the forum going again!!

---------------------------------------------------- I'm with you David. The programme was varied and entertaining on the whole but I've never heard the first and last movements of Widor 6 played at that speed. I also commented at the time to the people I was with that the pipes weren't having time to speak properly due to the speed of the playing. I like to be impressed by organists with amazing technique and there's nothing wrong with letting rip but at the expense of musicality then I'm not so sure.

Amazing playing. What I love about this interpretation is it goes against grain as to how so many so called Bach purists would like the piece to be played yet it sounds so right. The crescendo at the start of each passage is tastefully done but not something I can ever remember ever hearing other than in this recording. The pedal technique is razor sharp at this speed yet the phrasing remains immaculate. Hearing long prelude and fugues played on the same registration with little imagination often bores me to tears. Just confirms to me that there is more than one way to skin a cat and long live the difference (and the debate that this causes!)

It amazes me how some organ rebuilding plans are the height of extravagance whilst others which really need money spending on them just to get the organ to work properly never get off the ground. I played Belmont Abbey organ once for a wedding and found it to be perfectly adequate for the building although the mixture work wasn't the most pleasant. I was wandering how much of a part the diocesan organ advisor plays these days and whether there advice is any good and whether the churches take any notice of it in any case. I was advised recently that they are looking to raise about £450k to rebuild Oswestry Parish Church and add a handful of new stops to the great organ. It seems a huge amount of money to me. The new organ in Worcester Cathedral seems like a bargain costing not much more than some very expensive rebuilding projects.

Does anyone know what Dr Massey is up to these days? He doesn't seem to do many recitals and I certainly miss the opportunity of hearing him play.

I heard a recording of JSW playing the Widor Toccata on Classic FM recently. I thought the organ sounded terrible on the recording, the mixture work being particularly unmusical somehow and rather high pitched (I thought that JSW's playing and tempo was spot on nevertheless). The organ certainly sounded quite different from some of the old iconic recordings of Francis Jackson. It's not an organ I'm familiar with and have never heard it live. Is the JSW recording representative of how the organ sounds now or is this just not a great recording? Comments from those in the know would be welcomed! Happy new year to all.

I was wandering how easy it would be for an organ builder to copy an existing organ stop to get it to sound virtually the same. I am presuimng not easy. For instance, if I wanted a copy of say Hereford Cathedral's fine Tuba (which I'm very partial to), could a builder survey the existing stop and make a good copy? Any views from those in the know would be interesting.

It' so sad that a large town the size of Warrington cannot support this fantastic instrument. I understand that the funds also could not be raised to rebuild the Gray & Davison instrument in St Elphins church in the town and that an electronic is now being used. I can remember shortly after I moved 'up north' going to my first recital at the Parr Hall. It was quite a surreal experience after only usually being used to Cathedral organ recitals. Firstly, there was an ever present haze of smog from the chain smokers on the hall floor downstairs and of course considerable amounts of beer being drunk throughout. Brilliant!!

Re Holy Trinity Dawley: My uncle, Percy Corbett was organist for over 60 years at the church. It would undoubtedly be him that you saw during the organists association meeting. The organ was a fine instrument and sounded excellent and very balanced from the nave, more so than from the organ loft. The sound was no doubt helped by the fact that the organ was situated on a balcony at the rear of the church and spoke unabated down the nave. Dawley was a fine example of how a committed organist and choirmaster could produce good results. The choir in their day were good for a church of this size. Some of the choir would be ringing the bells behind the organ before the service, throw on their cassocks and join the choir. It was a precision operation! Percy always wanted a Trumpet on the great - he never got it. Maybe the fact that he wanted more controls for the organ reflected the amount of accompanying work he did with the choir. He typified what a good all round church organist should be, competent in all disciplines required and was a natural improviser. I haven’t heard the organ since the large fire at the church and do not know whether since the rebuild its tonal qualities have been affected or how much damage was caused. Percy Corbett died in 2000. I remember being told about when he took the choir to Hereford Cathedral how he enjoyed checking out the full organ capabilities (several times) during practise and was asked to 'quieten down' by cathedral officials. For all the intellectual debate on this website, it is nice sometimes to let rip on the organ or am I missing the point? My grandad and several other family members throughout the years were members of the choir. I suppose when we all look back and see what got us interested in the organ, you can pinpoint certain events. I think that sitting by Percy at the console of the organ as a 6 or 7 year old during the service and then being allowed to play the instrument after the service was hugely influential in increasing my appetite for the instrument. Indeed it was probably more exciting to me then than going to the console of a cathedral organ would be now. I'll remove my rose tinted spectacles now..................!

:angry: ----------------------- The situation at St Georges hall is very sad. Nevertheless can anyone explain why money was spent adding a sequencer etc and changing the tab stop couplers to draw stops at the expense of getting some of the silent pipework working again. On the face of it this seems to be a total mismanagement of affairs unless there was a specific reason for this unknown to me. :angry:

This discussion just highlights how much interest Liverpool Cathedral organ generates. The downside of this is that there are many other fine organs in Merseyside which rarely ever get a mention and trying to find competent organists to play them is even more difficult. The Father Willis organ at Mossley Hill is an absolute gem yet few people outside of Liverpool seem to know about it.

--------- I think that this is very true. Very few organs can perform the above three roles well if at all. Does anyone have an opinion as to how Lichfield Cathedral Organ can perform all three roles. I have not heard the organ since the Nave division was added. Views please.

I was disappointed at Cynic's lack of commitment in getting to the Abbey. If I can swim to the recital to listen then surely he can put in the effort to get there himself!! On a more serious note, Is your recital going to be rearranged?

Try searching under the place name St Michaels which is the tiny village that bears the same name as the church in county of Hereford & Worcester (as was). Tenbury is the nearest recognisable place of any size. This worked for me.

--------------- All of the views regarding the H&H great mixture at Hereford demonstrate to me how little you can sometime rely on recordings. I have heard Hereford more than any other large organ and have played it several times. The H&H mixture is a bright stop but the voicing blends far better with the organ than the Graham Barber recording suggests. Indeed, the mixture is quite necessary as the jump from the Willis 3 rank to the fiery great reeds is a big one. The H&H mixture really cuts the mustard for hymn playing. I was quite disappointed when I listened to the Graham Barber recording, whilst the playing is supurb, the organ sounds overbright, harsh and unbalanced. When you hear the organ live the first things that strikes you is the great warmth of the instrument. I have heard Neil Collier from Priory records speak in the past and he stated that he generally likes the microphone to be very close to the instrument. Whether this was happened in this case, I'm not sure but it certainly is not a good representation of the organ's tones. If you want to hear the organ at it's best, try and get a copy of the Roy Massey Moonlight and Roses LP, played by the organist who knows it best. This recording sounds as you hear it live and is an excellent entertaining piece of playing containing many rarely heard 'unfashionable' gems.

I heard GTB play Birmingham Town Hall before the last rebuild and the 32' reed would'nt stop playing and remember GTB hammering away at the stop jam whilst continuing the playing with the other hand. From what I remember he seemed quite unflappable and continued as if nothing happened (like so many church organists have to cope with every Sunday on instruments in dire need of repair)! What I liked about his playing was that he was more interested in playing pieces in a musical way than bowing to musical trends which is probably why he was such a brilliant choir trainer. I have heard a recording of Bach's Toccata in F major and he uses a gradual crescendo with full swell which would have so many of todays so called Bach experts and purists cringing I'm sure. Nevertheless, after recently hearing one of Britains most eminent organists play Bach with perfect use of the latest thinking on ornamentation and 'authentic' registration I'm not sure whether the current thinking is sound. The playing I heard bored me from start to finish very few registration changes and little emotion. To all Bach purists - feel free to bash me into submission over my uneducated views!!! GTB reputedly gave the first live performance of Rachmaninov 3 (other than the composer) in England at the age of 19 which was supposed to have been witnessed by Parry and Howells who rated the performance highly, confirming his legendary technique.