John Robinson
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Posts posted by John Robinson
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11 hours ago, S_L said:
David Pipe - not Pipes!!!
Yes, I just read that too! And I agree with what you say!! It's high time that the organ, and the organists, got out of their 'fusty' archaic selves! Good on David Pipe - and Anna Lapwood - and all of those fine young players working so hard to drag the instrument screaming into the 21st century.
The wife and I are going to see Anna Lapwood at Manchester Cathedral in a few weeks. She is an excellent example of young people who are going to resurrect interest in the organ in this country. Jonathan Scott is another very impressive organist who can really make the organ sound as if it's being played by TWO organists!
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Excellent news, and I hope that this support by HM may encourage more people to take an interest in the organ, both playing and construction.
Sadly, compared to such places as Holland and Germany, this country seems to have little interest in the instrument in many quarters. I have tried to inculcate an interest in the instrument when teaching at primary school, though I have no idea now how successful that may have been.
Perhaps the King will meet with more success. -
Very interesting discussion. I wonder how this affects 16' reeds, though I'm not sure whether anyone would use more than one at the same time.
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5 hours ago, Damian Beasley-Suffolk said:
Are 32' stops ever used alone? If not, and space rather than cost is the primary problem, and you simply have to have something at 16Hz, what is the objection to quinting? For the first time, I think, I recently played an organ with a 32' acoustic bass (louder 16 + softer 16 wired as a quint), and it sounded fine underneath the rest of the chorus - I am aware that some people don't hear such effects, although I do. I imagine that it works better in larger or more acoustically live volumes. I've occasionally played a Compton Polyphone which was also fine, and an example of which was recently made by a British builder. And of course you can put them anywhere. I don't know the relative costs of pipe v digital in this case, and I don't think it really works for reeds, but a stop knob and a few minutes fiddling with a transmission system can't cost that much.
I agree. I'd rather have a quinted 32' than an electronic substitute.
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Well said, Contrabombarde. I do agree that 'toasters' have their place, especially as home practice instruments for example.
I'd just like to add that I wonder how many serious musicians would prefer to listen to an electronic piano or electronic violin at a formal recital.
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On 17/02/2024 at 22:11, innate said:
So you’re deliberately inventing a definition of music designed to exclude the piece you don’t like? There are well-known and loved pieces of classical music that last about 1 minute. Wagner's Ring Cycle is around 16 hours. So there was already a massive range of durations. Satie's Vexations lasts 24 hours. Can you hum along to Perotin or Steve Reich?
“There’s not a tune you can hum. You need a tune that goes “Dum dum dum di-dum”.” Stephen Sondheim, responding satirically to all the critics that said you couldn’t hum along to his tunes.
Everyone is entitle to his or her opinion.
Personally, I cannot bring myself to refer to a change of note over several days, or even weeks, as music.Of course, if some of you enjoy listening to Cage's infamous piece which follows this 'style', I which you enjoyable listening!
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On 06/02/2024 at 22:24, innate said:
What is your preferred definition of what constitutes music? This is certainly organised sound. Other definitions are available.
Something which changes and progresses far more quickly... in fact, preferably in less than a day!
Can you hum along to this particular 'piece', for example? 🤣
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I agree with others.
Listening to the recordings on the same speakers or headphones, using the same amplifier, using the same electronic transmission, etc, etc,
they are both going to sound very similar.
Quite apart from attempting to reproduce the real thing, there is also the matter of benefiting from having the real thing in more ways than just the sound.
Similarly, you could wear a cheap cubic zirconia ring and tell everyone that it's a diamond. It might look the part, but is it really? Alternatively, have a small electric car and imagine that you are driving around in a Rolls-Royce, but of course you are not! -
Cage! What a load of absolute nonsense this so-called piece of 'music' is.
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Like Adh, I am not an organist (my fingers and feet have a life of their own and prefer to do their own thing), but have had a lifelong interest in the organ (the real thing; not toasters).
I enjoy planning specifications and producing accurate diagrams of 'dream organs' which, admittedly, are never likely to be built, though could theoretically be (with unlimited funds!).
Consequently, I find such discussions on here not only very interesting, but also helpful. -
I agree completely with this.
On the Continent, sensible people have retained and maintained many historic organs. In the UK, however, the trend has been to 'update' and improve our instruments. I can see both points of view: one is to preserve history, the other is to change for the better.
I suppose that there are many more historic organs on the Continent, if we reserve 'historic' to be pre-20th century or even pre-19th century.
I suppose the argument is, do we want to keep working examples of original organs, which can never be replaced, or do we want organs which change according to the changing musical tastes? -
2 hours ago, innate said:
Maybe he has turned down the offer of a knighthood. He accepted his CBE in 2007.
Honourable list of decliners here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_who_have_declined_a_British_honour
including people as diverse as Rudyard Kipling, Michael Frayn, Henry Moore, LS Lowry, Robert Morley, John Cleese, Virginia Woolf and Humphrey Lyttleton.
A very interesting, and lengthy list. I had to search for the name Francis Jackson, as I had heard mention that he was not in favour of such things, but no.
It appears that he was never offered the knighthood that many have suggested might have been offered. Obviously, he wasn't one of the 'clique'!
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What a very helpful source of recorded organ music.
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23 hours ago, DaveHarries said:
As someone who doesn't know the layout of the old organ (as I never saw a cross-section of it) whereabouts was that? In the main case or hidden in the triforium somewhere?
Dave
The new Nave division is behind the perforated area of the case beneath the west front display pipes, where I understand the West Great was sited.
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1 hour ago, Martin Cooke said:
Well, it was a pretty good plan at St Paul's in 1872! Whatever next?! Is it April 1st and I'm in a parallel universe?
Oh, I live in a parallel universe, and it's very nice here.
Of course, in the character of this thread, I was joking! -
From the pictures I saw on the programme, the Minster looked bigger than in real life. Camera angles and lenses, I suppose.
Much bigger than Windsor anyway.
I hope that the bagpipes didn't do any harm to the organ only a few feet away (reflecting back on the discussion about Norwich and the bishop hammering the organ with his crozier)!Oh, I'd say at least the admission charge, and no doubt quite a bit more on top!
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This, the final episode of the whole series (we assume) ended in, supposedly, St George's Chapel, Windsor.
The pictures shown, however, appeared to me to be exactly like York Minster. I suppose they couldn't get Windsor for their filming!
Strangely, I had never heard about this before, and it seems that they even managed to obtain permission to have a Scots piper playing on the organ screen, something I suppose has never actually happened in real life. -
Am I the only one to have heard about the plan to divide the case and site each half (east and west side, of course) to the sides of the Choir? I understand that this is being done to create an uninterrupted view along the entire length of the cathedral. What I am not sure about, though, is whether or not they intend to remove the screen as well.
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11 hours ago, Martin Cooke said:
And it had occurred to me that maybe it was all a 'set-up' of some sort and the side of the organ case was fully-protected etc. All done for dramatic effect and I/we have fallen for it. In the spirit of 'handsoff's' afterthought, above, I think enough's been said. If nothing else, it makes for a bit of a yarn.
If that had been the case, I should thank him for his foresight and good idea.
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1 hour ago, Martin Cooke said:
Anyway - it's here at 21.32.
He gave it a hefty blow with his crozier. I'd be surprised if there isn't a distinct mark on the case which, I think, is nothing short of vandalism.
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7 hours ago, S_L said:
So you believe in the Holy Ghost? Well, that's something I suppose!!!
Oh yes. I'm scared of ghosts, although I have never seen one, holy or profane.
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22 hours ago, Martin Cooke said:
Was anyone from the forum present at Thomas Trotter's recital yesterday? 40% of the pipework, according to H&H, is new, so it must sound quite different. It would be good to hear comment, if possible.
But, I watched the Evensong and Re-dedication on YouTube today. This was the second time in the recent past that I have seen a clergyperson throw water at a brand new instrument! The other occasion was the dedication of the new console at St Thomas, Fifth Avenue. What do I know, but is this really sensible? At Norwich, not only did the Bishop scatter water at the organ case, but he censed it, and then bashed it with his crosier, like a new Bishop does to gain entry to their cathedral at their enthronement. Again, is this appropriate? Can you imagine dedicating the Bishop's new car, during which the Bishop cracks the end of the crozier into the driver's door? 🤨 If one of the choristers had sprayed water from their drink bottle at the new organ or bashed it with their bicycle pump, I'd be surprised if someone hadn't 'had a word in their shell-like.' It seems a bizarre way to treat a new instrument.
There is a delightful video also on YouTube of H&H's Andrew Fiddes talking about the new organ. It's really heartwarming to watch and to hear Andrew speaking so passionately about his work. Here it is.
As an atheist, perhaps I should not comment. However, spraying with water, encouraging incense fumes to permeate its innards, and bashing a brand new wooden case with a metal object. Well, all I can say is that I hope the Holy Ghost comes along quickly and puts right any damage! 🙄
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Yes, I often wonder where MM is.
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At the phenomenal age of 71 years, I too suffer from pronounced hearing loss in the higher frequencies, quite probably due to unnecessarily loud volume settings of Emerson, Lake and Palmer in my younger years.
I have had Phonak hearing aids for over five years now. These latest models, fitted a year ago, are excellent and listening to organ music now is far more pleasurable than before. I'd certainly recommend them and, of course, a competent audiologist.Another facility which I'd recommend is hearing aids with the provision of BlueTooth, which permits listening to music on the computer or television with a better frequency response than listening directly from the speakers. I can also turn the TV speakers off, of course, when Marge is busy doing something else, such as speaking to her mother on the telephone!
Winchester Cathedral Organ Festival
in The Organ
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Nice to see a Larigot! They seem to be rather unpopular these days for some reason. After all, it can't be a space problem!