John Robinson
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Posts posted by John Robinson
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10 hours ago, Rowland Wateridge said:
But my comments about the congregation and the sheer racket they made still stand. 👍
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5 hours ago, Adnosad said:
All most interesting. Suggestion:- 1) Turn heating down to minimum .
2) Wear extra clothing.
3) Reduce length of services
That`s pretty much the appliance of science to the matter.
Well said. Especially no. 3!
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13 hours ago, Rowland Wateridge said:
Before the combination of old-age and Covid isolation set in, I regularly attended Evensong (as a Southerner) in our Northern cathedrals: Chester, Liverpool, Lincoln and York and, further south, Norwich already mentioned. At all of these there was a voluntary, finely played, at weekday services and something more major on Sundays. All of these also have recital series, the best organised of all, possibly, at Chester. But, and so often at Evensong, I found myself left entirely on my own sitting in the quire by the end of a great performance, and at the start there would be animated conversation, even laughter, by congregation members before drifting out - totally oblivious to the music and skill and artistry of the performance. I commented on this to a member of the clergy once - sad to say this was at York Minster - who merely shrugged their shoulders. The reality is that the majority of our fellow citizens are indifferent to organ music - I almost said classical music. So, how do we ‘educate’ or persuade them differently?
As an atheist, I rarely attend services and even then only if there is a recital at the end. Sorry!
However, I have found exactly the same thing and mentioned here such 'animated conversation of congregation members' at York Minster's Nine Lessons and Carols in December last year.It is very true that the majority of Brits seem to be indifferent to organ music which is why, no doubt, so many organs in this country are either being ditched or, if they are lucky, sold on to locations in Europe. In fact, it has often puzzled me: why only us and not other European countries?
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22 minutes ago, Rowland Wateridge said:
I thought John’s comment was in jest, but he hit the nail on the head in the light of what has followed here. This is about the organ, not wider environmental issues, heating bills and similar matters!
When I posted this topic I had in mind (1) the impairment of acoustic, specifically reverberation and ‘bloom’, by carpets and additional soft furnishings being introduced, and (2) potential problems with tuning resulting from temperature variations (with which we are all familiar) when churches turn heating on just for Sunday services. This subject is also being discussed in the Church press and on Christian blogs without the above issues being considered or even mentioned. Hence my gentle admonition that people like Diocesan Advisers and the Victorian Society really should know better.
Yes. That's exactly what I was intending to refer to, bearing in mind that this is an organ forum! There have been many discussions about churches installing carpets, etc., to the detriment of the acoustics and the sound of the organ.
I'd be happy with a bit of soft padding on the seats of the pews, as they can be quite harsh on the bot, but that's all really. I see no need for carpets certainly and their cost could be better spent on maintaining the organ!
Just my opinion, of course.
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Cushions? Carpets?
Aren't we all forgetting the organ?! -
Rather belatedly, as I suspect that everything about this refurbished organ has already been discussed on here, but I'd now like to add my own first experience.
My wife and I attended the Nine Lessons and Carols service in York Minster on the 22nd December. I was indeed impressed by the power of the new organ which sounded louder than I had ever heard it before, and we were sitting half-way down the nave.
I remember having suggested on here some time ago that the organ might benefit from the further addition of a nave organ, but I now confess that I was completely mistaken and the organ is more than capable of leading a nave full of people, and that's without the Trombas and the Tuba Mirabilis.In fact I'd go further and say that I think it could easily overwhelm them if necessary, as evidenced by some old biddies behind us who were obliged to relinquish their planned chatter due to the post-service organ music!
Oh, and the choir was very good too!
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On 24/12/2021 at 09:18, John Furse said:
That/they remain/s to be seen/heard !
Possibly, we've already seen some of them. It would be a more than interesting visual and audile effect to have these 'twisted pipes' sounding a microtonal melodic line, or even harmonies, against a more conventional background.
John Cage was an exponent of such - but there are many other noted composers who use them. Alternatively, think 'Indian' raga on the organ.
Still none the wiser, I'm afraid!
I can only assume that they are slightly out of tune, though I'm trying to imagine how that would sound on an organ assuming that it is done intentionally for a specific effect.
Perhaps one day there will be a recording on this, or perhaps another, instrument with microtonal stops. -
The pipes don't appeal to me in the slightest. In fact, I'd say they are a gimmicky attempt at doing something different.
The specification, however, looks very interesting as I'm sure will be the sounds produced.
One thing I'd like clarification of, though, is what exactly are 'microtonal' pipes? -
A one-hour documentary on YouTube regarding the new organ for Gothenburg Symphony Orchestra Hall:
Largely in English, but elsewhere with English sub-titles.
(I was right about the pipes under the floor, BTW!)
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8 hours ago, DariusB said:
And for those who are interested, the spec is now fully finalised and updated on the Nicholson & Co website here:
http://www.nicholsonorgans.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/LTH-website-spec.pdf
Thanks for this update. I see that there are some minor changes to the previous spec:
The Choir has gained a Piccolo 1', and the Grand has lost its 16' Posaune and one of its mixture ranks. Also the Solo Unda Maris has been replaced by a Voix Eolienne, though I wonder whether this latter stop is the same other than a change of name? -
17 hours ago, Niccolo said:
This organ has a general swell over the whole instrument, which I think is the reason why it looks like the great organ is enclosed. I'm kind of a bit confused by the pipes of the 32' Soubasse being under the floor as I thought the mentioned around 1:14 in the video that these pipes were placed above the organ.
I'm afraid that was MY confusion! As I said, I don't understand Swedish, so I probably misunderstood about the pipes' location. It looked as if they were under the floor anyway!
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Did I see the Great Organ, with horizontal trumpets, in a swell box?
Also, the 32' stopped flute under the floor: is that intended to create vibrations underneath the audience? (I don't speak Swedish, of course!)
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2 hours ago, Vox Humana said:
And how many organists have heard their own playing from the congregation’s position?
Perhaps a mobile console nearer to the choir!
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23 hours ago, S_L said:
104 years old today.
Wishing you a very Happy Birthday, Francis.
I'll second that!
I haven't had time to watch the programme on YouTube as yet. I'm hoping that it won't be withdrawn too soon! -
4 hours ago, Contrabombarde said:
What in the world is a "Bombarde (one pipe only, common to lowest 12 keys of pedal board, 15 inches wind) 32 foot" stop?
Perhaps one of those pipes with stoppers covering holes (as on a flute) to permit several notes from one pipe. Sorry, I forget the word I'm looking for right now. I'm losing my memory!
Mind you, I think they were always flues.
EDIT: Ah, yes. Polyphones. My memory came back.
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15 hours ago, Peter Allison said:
I have it on reasonable authority that the organ is one of those difficult instruments to record (like the 2 Liverpools, and St Pauls) for reasons that those who know more about it than me can say . To close a recording and the different Divisions are not heard in context, and to far, and the sound gets less direct and the room/acoustics spoil it.
True. I have an LP of St Paul's demonstrating just about every section of the organ. Bearing in mind such widely separated divisions as the Positive organ, the Dome Tubas and the West-end Royal Trumpets, and how each was reproduced so clearly, there is no way that all of these could possibly have been recorded using the same microphone(s) located in a central position! I'm sure they must have been moved around for the best effect.
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Excellent. It is really gratifying that Leeds is able to attract such talent.
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11 hours ago, Rowland Wateridge said:
Some years ago I persuaded two work colleagues to come with me to a lunchtime recital (not sure whether they were called concerts) in Winchester Cathedral, something which would never have occurred to them to do before. Afterwards one of them said “I had no idea an organ could sound like that”, and they both became regular members of the audience.
Excellent!
I believe that is the problem with the lack of public interest in the organ in this country. I have spoken to friends who describe organ music as 'dirges' and 'all the same notes all the way through'!
Yes, I think it would be great if more people could hear recitals such as you describe and by organists such as those you name. Jonathan Scott is another one who I think could certainly convert people to the organ. I think in many cases it just needs some 'non organ lovers' to be persuaded to hear the right music by the right people. -
14 hours ago, Martin Cooke said:
...[And let's also remember that, yes, we have all these instruments, but the established church seems to be eating itself alive and in 30 to 50 years time will be gone. What will happen to all these pipe organs then?]
I'm afraid that is a perfectly possible future. Churches are closing right left and centre these days as the number of people who still regard themselves as Christians diminishes.
It is quite possible that eventually all we shall be left with will be cathedrals and a few ancient churches of historical interest.
Those people who would find themselves without a local church would probably go to their nearest surviving church or cathedral which, in a way, would at least provide more support for those buildings - and organs of course - which still remain.Personally, of course I'd much prefer it if more people in this country took more of an interest in organ music, and I often wonder why the instrument benefits from so much more interest and following in places like the Netherlands and Germany than here in the UK.
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11 hours ago, innate said:
Let me know when Nicola Benedetti plays a recital of Brahms and Stravinsky on an electric violin or Yuja Wang plays Debussy and Rachmaninov on a digital piano. This really isn’t a question of being “truly authentic”—we aren’t demanding Liverpool Cathedral has a mean-tone mechanical instrument at its West End nor are we expecting Benedetti and Wang to play Bach or Scarlatti on harpsichord or gut-strung violin (although Nicola has done just that!), just on instruments whose constituent parts excite the air and interact with each other and the audience in a natural, musical way.
if you’re getting epsdis ffo maybe the problem is in you.
I agree. We are all entitled to our opinions and those electronic gadgets which I may not name are not, in my opinion, not in any way equal to the real McCoy.
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11 hours ago, Adnosad said:
CORRECTION edit out extra " myself "
Which one?
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Did I read this correctly?
The largest and most powerful pipe organ in the country and it needs a toaster in order to fulfil its function? 🤣
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12 hours ago, peterdoughty said:
I've always heard that they're the Great Contra Violone (but there's also one mention that I've seen online which suggests that the facade is actually made up of a mixture of that and the Pedal Double Open Diapason - see here).
Unfortunately, there's no word anywhere via google regarding the composition of the pipe metal... but there is an interesting previous thread on this very forum that I've just found here!
Actually, in that thread there is a quote from John Mander stating that the pipes are of 90.4% tin.
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I may be wrong, but I'm sure I read somewhere that those 32' pipes were made of tin which, I assume, would be pretty strong certainly compared to lead or lead-tin. Perhaps, if so, they're just too thin!
Incidentally, are they the pipes of the Violone or the Diapason?
CUSHIONS AND CARPETS
in General discussion
Posted
I agree. Although I am not religious now, and to be honest I probably never really was, I do remember enjoying Matins as a choirboy 'wen ah wer a lad'.
Yes, I still enjoy religious music, choral and especially organ and it certainly is sad that all of this seems to be dying today. Sad, but nil desperandum, it may one day come back into fashion.