John Robinson
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Posts posted by John Robinson
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Alas, babelfish doesn't speak Swedish!
You're right! I hadn't noticed. Sorry.
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Do shoot me down in flames (fanned by the red hot coals!), but I thought that the very descriptive phrase referred to the sound of the full swell and not the dome tubas??
No, the description of 'red hot coals' was, I am sure, applied to the Dome tubas.
I remember many years ago, whilst sitting under the dome awaiting the start of a recital, jumping out of my skin when the first chord was played on the Dome tubas. So I can concur with this epithet!
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Does anybody remember a TV programme in the late 60s called Sanctuary? Ity was a kind of The Bill or Casualty but set in a convent. The reason I ask is that the theme tune was, probably inevitably, an organ piece, quite strident as I recall, and I wonder if anyone knows what it is called - or if they have the score.... even better! Thanks. I must say you are all very decent in putting up with my eccentric requests and comments!
Peter
Yes, I used to fancy the fit-looking nun.
Can't recall the organ music, though.
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There is an absolutely super recently-released DVD about this organ which has just come out. What I like about it is that it gives a tour of the organ assuming that the viewer has a knowledge of the subject. Hence we don't get the endless description of how pipe organs work. I got my copy from here
I see that this is from an American site. I understand that DVDs bought in/from America may not be playable in UK/European DVD players (different regional codes, or something?), but presume that this is not a problem with your copy.
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Ok, then, this begs the question. Why are organists - often very well-qualified, with skills above those expected of most fellow musicians (how many other instrumentalists are required to transpose, score read, sight read in public, rearrange at sight music written for other instruments (or just badly written music), train choirs, work with clergy etc?) - generally expected to work for so little?
Whilst I'm sure Vox has his tongue somewhat in his cheek, he has a very valid point. Dealing with an organ console uses skills which I can't think are often needed in other lines of work, and not even in airline pilots nowadays. How many others have to develop the skill to use hands and feet in the way organists do?
Very well said.
As a non-organist I greatly admire the skill possessed by (good) organists. In an ideal world (which I'm afraid this isn't) organists would be much more highly paid. On the other hand, if I were so lucky as to be able to play the organ well, I think I should enjoy doing so without any pay!
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I don't watch television much and if it wasn't for iPlayer, I would have missed JSW's performance of the B minor P&F from Amorbach on Sunday on BBC4. Was this the first of the new series, or have I already missed some? Anyone know what other organs will feature?
Yes, I 'accidentally' watched this. I'd like to know that too.
More importantly, when are they going to release the DVD of Series 3? We seem to have been waiting ages.
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O that English (and Australian) worshippers would follow the example of German congregations in appreciating that the concluding voluntary - especially when carefully chosen to complement a particular liturgical theme or season (and announced in the pew sheet) - is part of the service itself and requires them to remain seated until the end.
I quite agree.
When I was in Cologne in August, and waiting near the west door to get into the cathedral following a service, I was very pleased to see that everyone, including the priest, sat in silence and listened to the organ voluntary. No-one moved until it had ended.
The nave organ, incidentally, was surprisingly powerful for only 53 stops, even from the west door.
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Although currently working in electronics research, I have done several work placements in the engineering industry over the past few years and in each of these have had reason to use various 'Solid' CAD tools, notably SolidEdge and ProEngineer (if that means anything to anyone!)
The enquiry is motivated from pure curiosity/a desire to compare with practice from other industries really, but I wonder whether some of the organ builders on here could explain a bit about the extent to which they use CAD (Computer Aided Design) in their design flow?
I'm particularly curious as to whether they use '2D' drawing tools which essentially function as electronic drawing boards (where each part is represented by a series of lines/3rd angle projection etc), or 'Solid Modelling' tools like SolidEdge. These tools function quite differently because the designer has to express the parts as 3D entities and then position them in a 'world', in effect you build the organ design up virtually as you would build it in real life. I suppose in the case of an organ builder, that means you would have various 'solid' entities like 'windchest' and 'reservoir' which would then be positioned inside the virtual 'organ' top level design. Usually, the software itself automatically generates the 2D drafts used for production.
And do you guys make much use of automatic CAD/CAM manufacture as well?
I just wonder whether the 'job' nature of organ building makes an extensive 3D CAD approach fairly laborious.
Many thanks, David Lucas.
I hesitate to reply to this as I am by no means an organ builder. However, as you seem to have had no responses thus far, perhaps you will excuse me if I contribute my 'fourpenn'orth'.
I have, for many years, used CAD in my hobby of organ design and use exclusively TurboCAD - currently version 14. This is quite cheap when compared to professional applications such as AutoCAD, yet is very functional and does all I need.
Originally I would draw designs only in 2D but later, when I upgraded to a 3D version of TurboCAD, I began to explore drawing in 3D. Although initially this was quite time consuming, when I had become more adept I discovered that producing one 3D drawing could take less time than producing several 2D drawings of different aspects. Moreover, if alterations were made, this would only need doing once. Naturally, the 3D model can be used to produce views of different aspects; obviously, any view/projection is possible: the usual plan, front and side elevations, and also others such as isometric projections if required. Another advantage is that you can be assured that there are no unintentional disparities between the different views.
I sometimes recall the 'old days' when I worked with ink drawing pens. Not only were the pens often difficult to get started, but they were occasionally prone to slip or even blot if you weren't very careful. Worse still, if you made a mistake or wished to make minor alterations, the whole thing had to be done again. Happy days!
John
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We haven't heard anythingof FJ recently but I think his Minster recital was supposed to be yesterday. Any news, please?
Malcolm Kemp
I'd be interested to know, too.
I was hoping to go, but my wife had made other domestic arrangements, and you don't argue with wives especially if they have been tolerant enough to accompany you to Cologne specifically for an organ recital.
John
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In these days when it seems to many that the status of Honours is so diminished, by the constant awards made to 'Pop' stars (whatever they may be) and others whose sole redeeming feature appears to be the ability to hack a football around a field for the amusement of a crowd, which is, after all their job and for which they are already quite unreasonably-highly paid.
I have to say that I am in two minds here.
I have no doubt that most, if not all, organists and others like myself who have an interest in the organ regard Dr Jackson most highly and believe that he is definitely deserving of such recognition (KBE). If a petition were to be organised, I would certainly add my name.
On the other hand, you may call me cynical but, for the reasons mentioned above, I think that the Honours system is becoming increasingly meaningless. Moreover, although I don't know him personally, I suspect that Dr Jackson is not the sort of person who yearns for such rewards. I think the love and respect of all who have encountered him should be enough.
John
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Sadly I fear that you are correct. I would also agree that this situation is a travesty - one of which London and the government should be ashamed. Given the amount of money which has already been spent on refurbishing the hall (to say nothing of what this country will spend on hosting the next Olympic Games), I find it hard to believe that money to finish the re-installation of the instrument cannot be found from some source. Unfortunately, since vast swathes of our society seem to be 'dumbing-down' at an alarming rate *, I am afraid that projects such as this one are so low down on the list of priorities that it would only get completed if the organ chamber was also to be adapted to provide housing for single mothers with dependants - or Estonian lesbians.
I suspect that what we need in this country is another Andrew Carnegie.
* If you do not agree with this viewpoint, just cast your eyes over the TV schedule for the coming week, or go into an ordinary café and listen to the 'conversation' for an hour
I'm afraid you are perfectly correct, and the sad thing is that I cannot see things changing for the better.
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Try sticking drawing pins in some of the (most frequently used) hammers!
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Thanks, Richard.
Not a fan of Messiaen, I'm afraid, but will make a big effort to attend FJ's recital. I hope he's well enough by then.
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Sounds good!
Will JSW be the performer?
Yes.
Must think about going to bed now!
John
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For those who enjoyed the DVD of Liverpool Cathedral organ, Priory have now sent me details of their second organ DVD.
PRDVD2 will feature the organ of York Minster (not King's, Cambridge as originally announced), and is due to be released in September/October. The 'pre-release price' is £19.99 (normal price £25.99), and both DVD and CD (sound only) are included, as for Liverpool.
According to the leaflet, the content will be:
Vierne - Toccata
Albinoni - Adagio for Strings
Peraza - Batalla for Trumpets*
Gigout - Scherzo
Gigout - Toccata
Thalben-Ball - Variations on a Theme by Paganini for Pedals
Wood - Chorale Prelude
Mozart - Fantasia in F minor
Elgar - Imperial March
Dubois - Fiat Lux
Mulet - Rosace
Mushel - Toccata
Durufle - Fugue sur le carillon des heures de la Cathedrale de Soissons
Cochereau - Sortie sur Haec Dies
(* Wouldn't this be effective done on Tuba Mirabilis, with Bombarde as an echo, as on Spanish organs with Trompeteria facing chancel and aisle? Will have to see what JSW decides!)
King's College will follow later as PRDVD3 'in the late Autumn'.
That's my (late) birthday present and (early) Xmas present from t'wife sorted.
John
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As one who got the organ bug early on, I wanted to run before I could walk; I guess many of you did also.
From about the age of 11 I started collecting organ recordings, a number of which were played to death during my teens. Performances were memorised in every nuance, scores purchased and the easier bits learned, the harder bits simplified if possible or just omitted. The music shop said I'd never play them, my organ teacher just stuck to the exam grade pieces, but I still presevered!
So, here are my top 5 inspirational LPs from my dim and distant youth:
- Crown Imperial, from Westminster Abbey/Simon Preston
- Great Cathedral Organ Series - York Minster/Francis Jackson
- Great Cathedral Organ Series - Hereford/Melville Cook
- 2 Bach LPs from Gross Munster, Zurich, played by Andre Marchal (performances well ahead of their time in the mid 60s)
I also loved many of the Rymuse EP series, in particular York and Liverpool.
I've still got them all, and quite a few more, but wouldn't dream of playing them now (I'm ashamed to say that I sold the turntable a few years ago).
So, what turned you on to the organ in your early years?
I must have been about fourteen or so when my music teacher - Keith Rhodes - played us the Cocker Tuba Tune on the Francis Jackson, York Minster LP you mention.
That prompted me to go out and immediately buy it: my first organ LP (in fact my first LP full stop).
Other early organ LPs that had a profound effect were the four 'Organ Magnificent' albums by Gunther Brausinger. I suspect that many who have them/have heard them may regard them as a little trite, but I love them. I bought them individually as and when funds permitted! Incidentally, the only one of which I am not fairly sure of the instrument is the fourth one (the one with the Russian pieces). Can anyone enlighten me?
John
- Crown Imperial, from Westminster Abbey/Simon Preston
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I would add my name to these; would it be possible somehow for the forum as a whole to send him a greeting message wishing him a speedy recovery (and return to the console)?
Peter
What an excellent idea! I have admired this man for very many years.
Please include my best wishes!
John
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The lunchtime recitals at Birmingham regularly see audiences of 300-400 - that number doesn't look many in Symphony Hall, but the Town Hall is often wedged. It's a tribute both to Thomas Trotter's superb playing and the magnificent instruments.
Yes. I happened to be in Birmingham on Monday and was pleasantly surprised to find there was to be an organ concert that day. I agree that there would have been about 300+ in the Symphony Hall for the excellent recital by Henry Fairs, Birmingham University organist.
By the way, this is the first time I have heard the Symphony Hall organ and I was very impressed. It has to be said that this instrument leaves that in the Bridgewater Hall (Manchester) standing. The latter, in my opinion, is noticeably underpowered. Perhaps, should funds become available, it could be revoiced more strongly.
John
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I enjoyed that programme but of course it's impossible to tell from an internet recording how the instrument sounds in that space. I am confused by one thing: About 24 minutes in Frederick Swann talks about stop pitches and says he will end the Franck Pièce heroïque with a 64' B in the pedal.
I can't find any evidence of a "Bombarde Ravalement" or similar stop in the specification. Does anyone have details of this?
Could he, perhaps, have played a fifth on a 32' to create a resultant?
John
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Payment is also a problem. Few Dutch websites accept credit card payments, sterling cheques are not welcome, and payments by bank transfer add £15 to £20 to the cost of an order, so the only convenient way to pay is by posting Euro notes.
Interesting. A year or two ago I tried to purchase a publication from the Klais web-site. In the end, the only way I could accomplish this was by posting Euro notes. Fortunately, they arrived at their destination, but I shouldn't like to make a habit of this procedure.
You wouldn't think we were in the EU, would you?
John
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Du 21 au 28 juillet, la Master-Class permettra aux étudiants d'approfondir leurs connaissances pratiques et musicales en abordant les questions de technique, de style, d'ornementation et de registration. Tout le répertoire musical pourra être abordé. En fonction du programme présenté par les étudiants, les cours pourront avoir lieu sur les grands instruments remarquables de la région, en particulier ceux des Cathédrales de Nice et de Monaco. Le travail personnel sera possible sur les orgues du CRR de Nice (Aubertin, Cabourdin, Bois).
Inscription en ligne sur
http://nice.hexagone.net/music/academy_nic...CFQIeuwodiQ4B4w
Babelfish translation:
From the 21 to July 28, Master-Class will make it possible to the students to look further into their practical and musical knowledge by tackling the questions of technique, style, ornamentation and registration. All the musical repertory could be approached. According to the program presented by the students, the courses will be able to take place on the large remarkable instruments of the area, in particular those of the Cathedrals of Nice and Monaco. Personal work will be possible on the organ of the CRR of Nice (Aubertin, Cabourdin, Bois). Inscription on line on
http://nice.hexagone.net/music/academy_nic...CFQIeuwodiQ4B4w
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It is successfull.....As a synthesis of french and southern german organ -already influenced by french and
italian styles.
The next step was J-N Holzhey.
Here is a beautiful example of Holzhey tone:
http://www.orgelbau-link.de/assets/multimedia/Schiessen.wma
The next one was....Guess who ?
Pierre
Thanks Pierre
Yes, of course, it sounds nothing like the North German organ. In fact, to me its sound is unique. Yes, it can produce typical French tonalities but, apart from that, sounds like no other South German organ I have heard. One of my favourites!
One of the attractions to me, by the way, of the South German organ is that they are all different, unlike the North German and French organs, which each seem to follow their own distinctive style.
Thanks also for the sound sample.
John
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I am reminded of a superb article written by the late Larry Phelps, in which he makes the following general statement as a prelude to the script:-
The main problem which progress in practical tonal design has served to clarify is the seeming incompatibility of the North German and French Classical concepts of the organ. At one time, I was primarily interested in the North German Werk-principle concept because I felt it represented the only logical scheme for building the tonal fabric of an organ with suitable polyphonic clarity. However, I have discovered through my growing interest in the French Classical approach to tonal design that, through proper scaling, voicing and structural design, what is essentially a new type of instrument can be produced which in fact does equal justice to both of these great schools of organ literature. As a very welcome by-product, I found that, with only very slight modifications to an otherwise strict adherence to Classical principles, such an instrument also performs the Romantic works in a manner much more appropriate to their nature than has been possible with any other formula conceived in this century.
This reminds me of the Riepp Ottobeuren organ which is said to be a successful combination of German and French styles and tonalities (although I always thought it sounded more French than German).
How successful a combination of these apparently two very different styles of organ do readers consider this instrument to be?
John
Largest Organ In Germany?
in The Organ
Posted
I quite agree.
I question the necessity of having so many manuals (how many hands do most organists have anyway?), despite the number of divisions the organ may have. With the advantages of modern electric action, including transfers, general combinations, etc., I cannot see why even the largest instruments cannot be controlled from a four manual console, each manual accounting for two or more divisions, if necessary.
Moreover, unless the organist has the arms of an orang utan, how can he/she possibly play the 6th (or even 5th) manual comfortably?