Colin Harvey

Many thanks to the Mander Moderators for their discrete resolution of recent problems with some of the less thoughtful postings on this forum.

Well, I suspect he might have been pulling my leg a bit...

Yes, this has been my experience. I have been living with an electronic while our organ is out for a rebuild. I'm finding the electronic is hard work, I'm losing interest (i.e. stops - I pull out what is about right but can't be bothered to spend ages finding a nice sound or even setting up pistons because nice sounds just don't exist on it) and I really can't wait for the pipe organ to return.

Yes, this was a very similar experience to the one I had. Unfortunately, it was in the showroom of a well-known eletronic manufacturer who was trying to sell me a toaster. It was just a Renatus box organ - but the difference between the pipes and the speakers was enormous. To give the salesman credit, he did acknowledge the difference and took such pride in the organ with real pipes, I warmed to him a lot and eventually bought an organ from him, which I've been very pleased with. However, the week before I had been in a showroom where there was a Yamaha Grand in the corner. The salesman was giving the pitch that "eletronics are just as good as pipes and they've got so many advantages" and was really quite condescending that he actually quite annoyed me. Five minutes on the piano convinced me I would gladly pay £7k for the grand piano but wouldn't consider £4k on an electronic organ.

Ah, yes I believe they are trying to revert the organ back to an earlier known state, as it was in the 1950s. All in the name of historical reconstruction, so I'm told.

Pah! Killjoy Gedact. Yes, I guess that faking 32s falls into the catergory of irrelevancy that 32 open woods also inhabit - i.e. they get thrown out of Gloucester Cathedral by controversial organ consultants .... errr, but hang on .... It is cheating and very immature, I'm sure, really. And it could be tasteless if overused or used inappropriately. However, what is wrong with organists getting more out of the instrument at their disposal than is really there? There's no rule against it and sometimes it's very effective to cheat. Those that know what's going on will be mildly amused and those that don't won't mind - they may even be impressed. And it's much better option than having a digital 32' reed added to your organ. I guess some may see it in the same class as improvising on "inappropriate" theme tunes rather than the gregorian plainchant set out in Graduale Romanum for the day. Depends on your point of view.

Unfortunately, my connection failed before the voluntary at the end. What was it? The organ didn't sound as I remember St Pauls either. wonder where the mikes were.... I know some people (David, Geoff) tell me they can fake a 32' purr in B by playing an uncoupled 16' bourdon on C - usually the pitch difference fools most. I'm sure they're right but yet to get it to work for me. I'll try the pcnd trick...

On a dull sounding flute (i.e. not too many harmonics) you need: 10 2/3 (I find you can sometimes drop this whn the pedal drops below bottom F) 6 2/5 (that's octave and major 3rd above the note) 4 4/7 (that's an octave and flattened 7th) Those are the major ones a ninth can also be added, plus other octaves, 3rths and 5ths as appropriate to get the right sound. for an example, here are some I use: Registration: full pedal (flues and reeds 16,8,4), full great, Gt to Pd (helps that the swell doesn't really add much to full great). Swell 8' flute. Pedal: Bottom F LH on Swell: bottom C, A, eb (so you're basically stretching a minor 10th) Pedal: bottom E LH on Swell: bottom G#, d (natural), f# These are usually quite comfortable and easy to hit. You need to experiment to get the right registrations and notes in the LH to get the best effect. So next time you play a miniscule 2 man + Ped, really impress people!! I can't help feel a 32' cornet like this would have been more effective at Southwell than the electronic reed... Choral Evensong from St Pauls is good today. I like the Bingham anthem.

I strongly disagree with this for Romsey, for the reasons David mentions. The trombone sounds fabulous from the aisle south of the quire. I think perhaps it doesn't get out properly into the rest of the building. And David must show me how he fakes the 32' reed at Romsey - I've been doing the trick myself on my toaster ever since we were shown how. The Grove organ at Tewkers manages rather well without a 32' reed but with a tuba and I can think of a whole host of organs in the same situation. Re. the organist at Otterbourne - was later vicar there? Was a certain Gary Philbrick? Great chap - I'll have to mention your name, Alastair!!

If I can just justify what I mean about not being organist of a church with an electronic: Having an electronic is symptomatic of a church that does not rate musical excellent as high on the list of priorities or ambitions. Yes, you might get an excellent choir and an electronic organ - Sheffield Cathedral is a good example - but those places are probably looking at a long-term future with a pipe organ, so there is hope. And I would make special allowances if the choir was excellent but the organ not much cop. re. comments about speakers. One of the best electronics I've come across in a church is an analogue Copeman Hart. There are 2 huge speakers the size of a wardrobe and lots of other smaller speakers round the chancel. It works very well and sounds a good deal better than some digital (especially bradford systems, I have to say) organs. I think it has to do with set up, amplification and good quality speakers. But I'm very happy to stick with St. Cross for now, thank you very much... although I might take ajt up every now and again...

I know the present organist at Otterbourne and he thinks that little Lewis is wonderful. I must go and invite myself to have a look at it...

Hmmm, I think in your case, Adrian, it's probably justified. It's a very fine instrument. I thought about adding Romsey to my list. David and a few others I know will hate me but I actually like the tuba there - so long as you don't add it to the rest of the organ.

I've had to play an electronic during our pipe organ interregnum. As electronics go, it's no great shakes but it's pretty good. However, the experience has simply cemented my own personal policy - and it's just internal to me - that I would not be organist of a church with an electronic organ. Thankfully, the organist of the next parish church up the road (St Cross) has kindly let me practice there when I want so I can remind myself every now and again what it is like to play a real organ. I also work in the technology sector. I could speak for hours but in a nutshell all I would say is that the improvement predictions pundits predict of improvements technology never materialise to the quality they predict in the timescales they mention. We are now in a phase of evolution of digital and speaker technology and I do not believe we are going to see the massive improvements in quality of sound we have seen over the past 20 years with the advent of digital technology. There's nothing on the cutting edge of sound reproduction I know of that is going to come to the leading edge over the next 10 years. And having heard a eletronically reproduced flute and a real flute in the same room against each other, there's still a gulf to overcome.

Well, I've never looked at organs in quite this light before but the idea of polygamy does appeals... Ok, here are mine: 1, Laurenskirk, Alkmaar. Does this count as 1 or 2? 2, Kings College, Cambridge. Never played it but heard it a few times and I guess it has to come with the rest of the building. 3, Pembroke College, Cambridge. This will raise a few eyebrows but I played this organ a couple of times and loved it. 4, Sacre Coeur, Paris. 5, Adlington Hall. I've heard this organ on tape only but it just sounds so cool. 6, A small practice organ, as built by Peter Collins, Ken Tickell and others. As Beatrice said when the Prince offered his hand to her in marriage in Much Ado: "But I would need another husband for week days. Your majesty is too grand to wear every day of the week." And I would want a little organ where I could learn new pieces in the comfort of my home and get them right before playing those other organs at the weekend... I'd probably ask H&H to build it.

This last Sunday my ancient (and much abused) AMNS decided it was time to fall into into its component sheets of paper during the dismissal. It went something like this "Peace be ...." massive full frontal attack of Messiaen-esque chord as hymnbook falls on great keys with nearly full organ from final verse of last hymn .... with you" Organist (sotto voce) "Christ Almighty" Vicar suitably amused, amongst laughs "well that was appropriate" Congregation: "and ... Entrance of pedal (with reeds) as part of hymnbook falls further .....with you" <Embarrased silence by organist picking bits of hymnbook from the pedal keys, even more mirth from Vicar (a saint, really) and congregation. Choir and clergy start to process out to silence> <finally voluntary follows (leighton fanfare)>

Exactly ..... something very neo-baroque from the 70s! 8' flute the basis of the Great Mixture chorus, etc.... You could, of course, have a moderate scaled and voiced Open Diapason which isn't too heavy and call it "Open Diapason" but each to his own.... Perhaps we could have a "Lee Blick Diapason"? [groan] Re. Pedal 4': I thought that the "gap" in the harmonic series of the Bach organ was not to produce a "gappy" chorus but to provide a solo stop in the tenor or soprano in the pedals. Usually, those 4 & 2 "solo" stops are very sonorous and don't really form part of the plenum in the pedal division unless you're pulling out everything.

Hmmm, perhaps just nomenclature about the 8 Gemshorn/ open Diapason? the 4' on the pedal seems to be a strange luxury on an organ so small. A throwback to the neo-classical style where an organ wasn't complete without at 4 Choralbass or Schlamei ()? Otherwise, this looks like a good 'un to me. Be good for choirs and stuff.

Err, yes. I've just tried ordering from here. They're out of stock too. No date when they're getting new stock in, which is uncharacteristically poor from them.

now, now.

i remember playing this organ over the summer. Those Swell pedals are definitely an acquired skill. I remember spending a good 5 minutes trying to get the choir box 1/2 open (according to the dial) before playing some piece of music. It was surprisingly difficult. Not exactly intuitive and they caught me unawares a few times....

I can think of an almost untouched Walker which has been removed from a church in Winchester while the church is refurbished. There are no plans to restore this organ or return it to the church. It's a cracking little organ, 12 stops over 2 mans & ped. almost untouched save for electric blowing apparatus and a balenced swell pedal (the trigger swell pedal now controls a tremulant). The voicing seems untouched since it was made in 1870. I played it for about a year and thought it was a little cracker.

blimey. You must either move fast or you have the stamina of .... well, I really can't think ... don't want to think either. Holland really is an oasis for organists... ... and MPs...

Knitting !?!? hmmm, are you thinking of the same place? they don't do that any more. more likely to be listening to music on their ipods or browsing the internet. I've never tried their skills pulling out all the stops on my organ. But I may give them a go. Look at where out high minded philosophical discussion on Bach has got to! This is dreadful. It always seems to happen tho ...

I believe that's right. Isn't the case of the little organ (the Ahrend) from Sweelinck's organ? Heva? The west gallery organ is, I think, approx 1760 by Vater. So a little after Sweelink's time. Talking of streets, there are some interesting shop window displays around the Oude Kirk...

Ah, yes. I played this organ too. They had just returned the tuning of the Sweelink organ to meantone temperament. I think it was actually a new organ in the old case. we also played the old Vater instrument along the west wall but it was in a terrible state of repair. I know they're looking at what to do with it. Yes, I do have plans for a new organ. See www.twyford-organ.com for details. It will be installed later this year.... All donations gratefully received. BTW, I note you're upto message 666 pcnd. I hope that's not auspicious!!