Colin Harvey

Why not indeed? It shows that to be of most use, the ranks need to balenced in power against each other - so no overpowering Open Diapasons and gutless celestes. Why are some many celestes on modern organs salicional based? I rate salicionals probably slightly below average dulcianas. I've come across some lovely (early) ducianas but i've yet to get hot under the collar about a sali. Much prefer things like echo gambes, with their papery quality and ability to add an edge to open diapasons. Salis never add anything to open diapasons. Pierre, I will think about the aesthetic "requirements" of the organ at some stage....

Good question. My thought was that it would be used against the Great Open Diapason alone - a la Stanley Cornet Voluntary. It might also work instead of a clarinet solo against Gt & Sw in a choral accomp setting too ...

Don't be a numpty - you wouldn't use it atop the celestes. You could use it with the trumpet, as Pierre suggests - or an octave down alone - possibly using the sub octave coupler and unison off. You could also use this way for a pedal chorus...

We haven't had a 3 manual scheme yet, so here's one for discussion: Great Organ Open Diapason 8 Principals II 4 + 2 Swell Organ Celestes II 8 Mixture IIII (4') Trumpet 8 Choir Organ Gedackt 8 Open Flute 4 Blockflute 2 Cornet II Pedal Organ Bourdon 16 All usual 6 couplers plus Swell Octave and sub octave (85 note chest) Swell Unison off Swell sub octave to pedal Swell octave to pedal Swell sub to Gt swell octave to Gt Is there anything this organ couldn't do?

Lots of ho ho ho ings can cause nodules on the vocal chords. It is not recommended (ruins the voice) and I, too, don't find it that attractive. I, too have been discovering the - until now largely unknown to me - cantatas. I think there are some "Bach potboilers" - but that still means they are beautifully crafted pieces of music by any other standard. Some are on another plane altogether: the first movement of Ich habe genug - the bass solo - is simply sublime and I stayed in the car (my usual spot for listening to Radio 3) in the car park until it was complete. How did people's Toccatas and Fugues go on Sunday? I played mine at the end of our church the carol service and nobody in the packed congregation stirred. There were a few murmurings after a minute or so but everyone sat still and silence descended on the congregation until the end, until they broke out in sustained applause. I wasn't expecting this and I found this impromptu recital to 350 didn't help the nerves but was delighted at the same time. It certainly brought that music to people who might otherwise not have bothered and raising the profile of Bach's organ music in that manner made it a worthwhile exercise to me. Any other stories?

Interesting requirements: One set of requirement were very much dealing with the functional requirements of what the organ must be able to do it - but how do you quantify and qualify success against these requirements. These are likely to be requirements of the church - what they want the organ to do. The above requriements are the aesthetic requirements - what the organ builder would like the organ to do. They are also requirements for the solution to the client's set of requirements. Just an observation on 2 entirely different ways of looking at what an organ should do. Both sets of requirements are equally valid but in today's climate, Palestrina's requirements are likely to be considered - but in practice, I find they're dealt with in about 30 seconds - and Pierre's requirements are frequently so difficult to discuss that they often aren't discussed with any semblance of success to the parties involved.

A couple of things I would add: Using the 8' gedact trick I was shown the other day, I, too have discovered that adding the 9th above the 3th and 7b can also re-inforce the 32 resultant - especially in the bottom notes. It works something like this: Gt & Pd: full Pd - bottom d sw - 8' flute: bottom f#, c, e creates a very successful 32 effect. Also try (same registration): Ped - A Sw: from the bottom: e, c#, g(natural) Sub-quinting - in the 21 1/3 region. Does work. I think it's a 64' resultant. Alkmaar's 22 praestant in the pedal adds a wonderful gravitas to the pedal line, making the 16 sound like a rock and it just hints at a sound so huge and cavernous, it is beyond our comprehension. It has to be heard in the flesh. Simply a totally wonderful instrument - and on another subject - it has a mechanical action to the oberwerk 40 above the player which really works beautifully.

I put the requirements for this organ - musical requirements and type and size of building - in my initial note.... but yes, you are quite right to make the point again. I don't find this scheme very much to my taste. I find the lack of an 8' principal is not very helpful to build up a cohesive chorus - which I find invaluable for accompaying hymns and much parish work. The 16' bassoon with open shallots as the sole reed on the organ raises my eyebrows too - would this not be too dark and heavy for the rest of the organ - probably overpowering the pedal violone for bass? While it could be handy in "full organ", in mf registrations and under expression I would find it too muddy and heavy accompanying a choir for instance. I've lived with a similar arrangement (swell 16 reed alone) for 4 years and didn't find it that useful in practice. Perhaps an 8 reed with a sub-octave if you must? Overall, I would think that this entire scheme could be muddy and lack cohesiveness in the flesh, intriguing though it is on paper....

You are both wrong. The worst organ ever made exists in the church of St. Andrews, Owslebury, Hants. David - I'm sure I'll be able to push a weekday service your way for you to play it. At least you'll get paid. I could go on about it's many failings but suffice to say that every capable organist who has played it has unhesitatingly said it is the worst organ they have ever come across.

I was in H&H's workshops a month ago and can clarify what's happening: the main console is going back to the workshop for refurbishment. During that period, the main organ will be controlled from a tempory 3 manual console supplied by Harrisons. So the Harrison will be in operation but controlled from another (tempory) console. The spec of the tempory console (around 50 or 60 stops) was drawn up by the organists and they have come up with some clever and inventive ideas.

Must try 32' effects when I do ARCO at St Barnabus then.....

One of the first tapes I got as a kid was Allan Wicks playing Transports de Joie. I think it was Red seal or something - no label I had ever come across. The Messiaen is fabulous and I still listen to it just for that piece... I would like a copy if it's re-issued on CD.

Just had another thought - if you want a 32' reed, I had the concept of a bass cornet - 10 2/3, 6 2/5, 4 4/7 - demonstrated to me yesterday very successfully on some really tiny organs where you wouldn't expect one. Funny, really. A couple of ranks should do it for you, wouldn't have the temperature problems of eletronics (plus all their other problems) and it would sate your appetite for more organ. Perhaps as well you could add a cornet separate derivied from a single flute rank but if' you're a good orgnaists, you don't really need the derivations if you can play the left hand with your feet. :-D

If I remember, I heard a story that the Gt Gedact was HWIII's only concession to the neo-baroque organ, which was making itself felt in the RFH organ, completed in the same year. The organ at Southampton is made up of at least a couple of organs... Excellent pictures - well done! and Good Luck! Must have a beer sometime, Adrian and have a chat...

This always feels a bit tart to me, but Quality is the overriding concern. Often it's not the design or the style of the organ that determines whether it's a success but how well it's carried out. I'll quite happily live with anything so long as it works well and appreciate it for its qualities. However, I'm concerned about the lack of artistic direction in the trade right now. WE seem to have a bit of everything - from the Drakes and Aubertins, through to the big boys like Mander & H&H, the likes of Nicholson, Walker etc - and also the FH Brownes, Matthew Copleys and Percy Daniels. In some ways we're just recovering from the intense objective direction of the 60s and 70s. It just seems to me people are still finding their feet in an uncertain market place and we're beginning to open up our ears to sound and hands to touch as much as our eyes to design again. There's still an uneasy compromise between those that look as an organ almost like a tool for the liturgy or for the concert hall, wanting items to be added to it rather like a new appliance in their kitchen and those that look as organs as items in their own right - that that's the way it is and it would be a traversty to alter it.

I think, in this age of people having - and expecting - sensory overload when they go out, that video screens are a good thing. I've been to many recitals with no screen where people don't know what to do with their eyes. the other thing is that the organ is the very devil to communicate with to an organist - organist is up there, unseen in the loft, doing truly remarkable things but nobody can see him. There just isn't that connection with the audience one sees with singers, violinists and pianists - or any other musician. Also, non-organists are just fascinated with how an organ is played. Some marvel at the machine, others marvel at the skill required to play it. It's a big asset of an organ recital. Make the most of it. Therefore, I feel that anything that helps connect the audience to the performer, keeps their interest, gets them absorbed or lessens that sense of isolation I get at organ recitals, is well worth it.

Franck's Cantabile. So nothing long, loud or fast... if I remember, I needed about 5 pints to play Widor's toccata on it - can't do it sober. I agree: I think the TSCH organ does have something to say and in the final balence, I am a supporter of that organ. It gives many players a revelation - whether or not they like it - and an opportunity to experience things they may not have experienced before, like a proper Werkprinzip organ. You have to travel far to find something similar - and most wouldn't bother to make the effort.

Gary Philbrick? Ah, yes, I know Gary well. Excellent chap. I think Gary has graduted from most places, judging by his magnificient collection of hoods....

I think you're rather stuck with the basic layout of that organ. It's pretty tightly packed and it takes up really quite tiny floorspace for that size of organ. I've never been fond of the vox humana beeping in my face, though. Haven't played it for ages and to be honest, I haven't felt like hearing it or playing it unless I'm invited to it. Didn't go to the JSW concert - from what I heard, it was very long and arduous for the audience.

I did say "in that quarter of Southampton"... trying to exclude Peartree, which, on the other side of river might as be in another country to a student without wheels. I'm in training for playing Peartree on Saturday: I've got those hand strengthener things and practicing breaking blocks of concrete with my bare hands to get the amount of concentrated force right.... Mind you, Twyford was heavier and so vague most people thought it was bad e-p action...

Just better mention - the crap organs I mention excludes the organ of St Mary's, South Stoneham in Southampton - a single manual Walker of 1858 in a west gallery. A little gem.

I too, was an undergradute at Southampton and gave a lunchtime recital on it one day. I actually quite liked it at the time but I always felt it fell flat on its face in a full hall, where what little reverberation disappeared and the tuning went awry. It then became harsh and nasty. I also never found registrations based on flutes and mixtures were particularly attractive on that organ but some people felt compelled to use them, but I find this - both registrations and use of - on nearly all organs. However, that quarter of Southampton is poorly served for organs. Yes, there's St Marys in the city centre, but as ajt knows, it's in a deplorable state. But I can't think of a good tracker action organ of any consequence in Southampton. So TSCH organ stands out like a beacon. I know the university were thinking about working with a parish church to improve their facilities - including a better organ - but I am not sure where this got to. To sum up, I found the Collins organ had a lot of colour and interest after the really very mediocre organs in the area. I found its design, its colour and concept a refreshing and inspiring influence. I had no other organs to try out sesquialtera solos, brustwerks, Werkprinzip approach, balenced choruses and independant pedals and was very grateful for the TSCH organ. It is a landmark organ in the area and I think that reflects as much on the organs in the immediate vicinity as the quality of that organ. However, I can quite understand the frustration of the management at the TSCH about the organ. It doesn't allow the full repertoire; it is unreliable and unpreposessesing in a full hall. But it is also of a period and a piece of that hall. What to do with it is a difficult questions and I wouldn't jump to conclusions. It is an unfashionable organ at present and I can understand the desire for something more romantic on one level with a swell box. But there are plenty of crap organs like that around, as many of surrounding church organs in that area would show...

I shall see whether ******** mentions it to me.

Yes, SKYNET will have taken over the world. We will have Terminator T-Xs sitting on our organ benches - vicars certainly won't f**k with them, not will the (machine) tenors sing too loudly or the (android) basses sing flat and 2 beats behind. Hasta la vista, baby, and after playing Reger Introducktion, Passacaglia and Fugue note perfect, they will simply announce "I'll be bachhhk" before putting on their dark glasses and strutting off out, chain gun slung over each shoulder. The fact is, as David says, there are a lot of unoccupied organ benches on Sunday mornings where their lack of presence is felt. The reason for this is not the ascendancy of the mechanical organist but problems with church attendance and often church leadership and the declining number of organists. This wouldn't replace organists - it would just be there where no organist is available. Clearly, a real organist would be far superior - and it would keep real pipe organs playing rather than replacing them with toasters - which is far worse and an even worse forecast than either option for the Worcester organs. I think we might already have a terminatrix on the organ bench at a Cathedral close by, though.

With the declining number of organists, many smaller churches can no longer rely on having someone to play the organ on Sunday mornings. This is a major problem to many churches and they have to find alternatives for music during services. I was wondering whether there is a more effective method of accompanying congregations and providing music instead of relying on CDs and electric "hymn machines". I've seen a few organ tuners sporting electrical devices which fit over the keys, with a remote control for depressing the desired key while they're upstairs tuning. I was wondering whether these devices could be adapted to play hymns by being linked up to a more advanced control and user interface device. Just imagine it - an electrical device would fit over a manual of an organ and there would be some kind of interface for people to select music to play on it - like hymns and voluntaries. Somebody could sit by the organ, select the next hymn to be played, number of verses. When the hymn is announced, all they would need to do is press "play" and operate the stops. Similarly, there could be a number of pieces of music in the system's library for voluntaries before and after the service. When an organist turns up, it would be a simple job just to lift the device off the keys and the organ could be played normally. I think this idea would be vastly superior to CDs and electric player organs. Firstly, it's controlling a real musical instrument and while electric imitations are very good, you just can't beat a column of air vibrating in a pipe. It would be a vastly superior solution aesthetically to electronic or reproduced sound. Secondly, you're still using your organ - a valuable asset in the church - and it's not sitting folornly in the corner unused, questioning people to wonder what it's future is. So it's still possible to keep an interest in the organ... who knows, the person operating the player equipment may be tempted to try playing the keys himself one day.... It could be something that is used as an "assistant organist" - so when the organist is on holiday or there's a gap in the organist's rota. So the organ is still be used and appreciated. Of course, it would sound a little inflexible. There wouldn't be that sensitivity and "give and take" or sense of line that's apparent when a real organist is playing. but it could be quite a bit better than some organists I've heard - at least there would be a consistent tempo and the right notes would be there... In some ways, it's not a new idea at all. The Victorians had "finger and barell" organs and later there were mechanical player barrels that fitted over the keyboards of organs. I was just wondering where you could get these devices from and whether they could be used for this type of work. Some work would be needed to develop a control unit and user interface and some churches could be a lot better off muscially. What do people think?