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Colin Harvey

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Posts posted by Colin Harvey

  1. In reponse to Vox's and Paul's posts:

     

    What is equally important to consider is placement of the choir organ within the organ - this will help determine the nature of the division.

     

    If the Choir Organ is behind the Great Organ or underneath the Swell Organ (as is typical in a 3 manual British organ), this division is going to be best as choir organ in nature. Sticking a load of neo-baroque squeaks and shrills is likely to be counter to the character of this division.

     

    If you want a proper unenclosed positive division, you will have to place this division appropriately in the organ. There are a number of options, either in a ruckpositive position, an oberwerk or a brustwerk position. A classical recit division on a French classical organ is a small soundboard above the Grande Orgue, short compass, with quite a telling Cornet on it.

     

    The smaller pipes and fractions need to be well-placed if they are to be heard. High frequencies get attenuated by air, are more directional and don't go around corners so they need to be placed well to be heard. We've all come across a pedal mixture on a rebuilt British organ that is next to useless because it is buried deep in the bowels of the organ (I've seen one behind the main reservior at ground level) and the sound doesn't get out. Just as much as understanding the effect you want to achieve with your choir iorgan, it is just as important to understand the structure and placement of the division within the organ and how it works with the rest of the organ - and indeed, if it is consonant with the style of the rest of the organ (although I hope I don't have to say that).

  2. All these stories of turning up at a unfamiliar organ with 20 minutes to prepare for choral evensong all focus on working out how to manage the organ than actually getting to know it. They all focus on button pressing.

     

    So how do people get to know and understand an unfamiliar organ? Let's take away the time constraint and the preoccupation of how it balences the choir for accompanying choral evensong and let's focus on how people work out how all the elements of the organ fit together. What do you do?

     

    Quote: "I was far too tense and wound up to enjoy the experience and help others enjoy it too - which is why people organise cathedral visits, on the whole. So now, I make quite sure there are no surprises in store, and then go for a pint with everyone else"

     

    I like this. :)

  3. I once gave a lunchtime recital at Bristol Cathedral. That same lunchtime, Tony Blair visited County Hall on the other side of the green, where protesters pelted him with eggs. Obviously, the recital still went ahead and the reception in the Cathedral was more favourable: I was fed egg and cucumber sandwiches with tea in the Grand Marriott hotel afterwards.

  4. I had a quick flick through the Baerenreiter edition as a friend had a copy - I really can't remember it that well, except it seemed very... Baerenreiter. From the sample on website, well, the first page doesn't really present the most difficult challenges for an editor/arranger so it's not really possible to form an opinion. The Rutter edition presents the original organ part, as Faure wrote it, with extra indications of notes added by the orchestra in small notes. In his editorial JR seems convinced of the conjecture that the 1900 orchestration may have been delegated to somebody else (i.e. not Faure) because it is not of the same standard as the 1893 edition. Therefore, there is a train of thought that the 1900 version is not Faure's work. Roger-Ducasse seems to have prepared the piano reduction of the 1900 edition. Personally, I'm not sure what value there is to an organ transcription based on a piano reduction of the original organ part prepared by a 3rd party if you can just get the original organ part...

  5. I would second Paul Morley - the Rutter edition is excellent: it is basically the original (1892?) Faure organ part as he wrote it. Faure's orchestral parts enhance the organ part with the texture of the strings and colours of the brass and woodwind but all the necessary notes are in the organ part.

     

    I don't feel it's necessary to play every note when it goes into 4 staves - many of them are lost anyway - it is just there to add to the organ part and your ears will be the best judge - I feel parts like the cello lines and of course the Trumpets in the Dies Ira should be added. John Rutter's notes in his editorial sum up exactly how the 4-stave sections should be used.

     

    If I remember, in the sanctus I play the bottom two or three of the sustained notes on a 8ft stop in the pedals, the arpeggios in the left hand on a separate stop and the solo violin part on a good principal stop in the right hand.

     

    I would strongly recommend listening to a recording with an orchestra to know how to colour the organ part: there's a section towards the end of the Agnus Dei that has a superb Trumpet/Tuba solo in the tenor before the recapitulation of the opening and personally I feel a lot of music is lost if it is left out. However, it's not there in the organ part but I've written it in to my copy.

     

    The other thing I would second in John Rutter's editorial is to be quite sparing in use of 16ft pedals. I only use 16ft pedals when the double basses join the cellos on the bass line.

  6. I feel I've been mis-characterised here. I didn't suggest that an organ suitable for choral music and a historically-informed organ are mutually exclusive, I simply asked how difficult it is to design an instrument that plays a wide variety of repertoire musically. But obviously, much twentieth-century Anglican repertoire was written with a late-romantic organ in mind, though there are other types of organ on which Anglican choral repertoire can be accompanied very musically. Stephen Bicknell talks in his book about St Ignatius Loyola in New York, and how he felt that although the instrument there was conceived clearly with a French bias, that most repertoire was playable on it musically, and that choral accompaniment was well catered for by this organ. What I was trying to get at is the question of which organ traditions were most able to deal with music which may not have been written for them. Any strong opinions? For example, a Schnitger organ, though tierces can occur, would not offer a Jeu de tierce required for French classical organ music. Implicit also in this question is which type of repertoire is more important in British churches. I would be intrigued to hear people's thoughts on this.

    Two points I would make:

    The most recent work of Paul Fritts and Ralph Richards, both working in the North German Baroque style at an astronomically high standard, shows how the Schnitger/Mueller/Hintz idioms can be developed to reach into the romantic repertoire and elsewhere. Particular instruments worth considering are:

    http://www.frittsorgan.com/opus_pages/gall...to_gallery.html

    http://www.frittsorgan.com/opus_pages/gall...to_gallery.html

     

    http://www.richardsfowkes.com/pages/3instr...15/15_index.php

    http://www.richardsfowkes.com/pages/3instr...17/17_index.php

     

    I've written before about my admiration of the Tennessee organ before - listen here to it at about 11 minutes playing a Schumann Fugue:

    http://pipedreams.publicradio.org/www_publ...7_0801part2_128

    This is the best I've ever heard this piece in a recording and taking into account the bone-dry acoustic, this organ is a remarkable achievement.

     

    There are fine recordings of the Fritts organs - Craig Columbus at Columbus and Michael Unger at Rochester are warmly recommended as they show off these organs in a wide variety of repertoire, from Sweelinck and Spanish music to Reger, Jongen, English romantics and contemporary music.

     

    The second point is that it is of utmost importance to build an organ that is appropriate in style for the room. I feel that this is where many of the less successful "Historically Informed" instruments have fallen apart. Especially in university chapels, there are many examples of organs built in a particular style that are stylistically just as inappropriate for their location as they are for their function. If you match the style of the organ to its location appropriately, you frequently set in place a good framework for a successful organ. Not only does this framework inform the decisions of the design and specification of the organ, it provides the basis for the musical identity of the organ, which it will lend to any music that is played upon it, in a manner that is entirely appropriate for the location.

  7. They are still doing it! Did anyone play the previous Harrison there? From its specification, it looks more like the right kind of instrument for accompanying Anglican services.

     

    Enjoyable and valuable as historically informed quasi-replicas are, there is something to be said for an organ designed for choral accompaniment, especially in such places as the Oxbridge colleges. The same could be said of this proposal to move the CC to Sheffield Cathedral, couldn't it? For my part, I've enjoyed listening to the organ at St John's, Cambridge, which seems to handle an extraordinarily wide range of music with aplomb, both accompanying and as a solo instrument. Just how hard is designing an instrument that can play a fair bit of the repertoire musically?

     

    I don't see that a historically informed organ and "an organ designed for choral accompaniment" need be mutually exclusive at all. The organ at my church could claim to be historically informed (although it would never be presumptive enough to claim it is entirely historically informed), yet within the context of its 18 stops and the aspirations of our better-than-average country parish church choir, it has proved itself to be extremely good at choral accompaniment and certainly adequate for our church's needs.

  8. I was wandering as to how well the voicing of the Parr Hall organ would work in Sheffield Cathedral as it will be coming from a softly furnished hall to a cathedral with acoustics at the opposite end of the scale. I remember GTB describing the challenges the voicing posed in his biography of the present Temple Church organ when it was installed. In fairness, they seemed to get the end result right of course!

    I think this is an extremely good question. My only experience of Cavaille-Coll concert hall organs is the recently restored organ in the Philharmonie Concert Hall in Haarlem (restored by Flentrop in 2006, with a reconstructed Barker lever action).

     

    This organ was originally in Amsterdam and it was transplanted to the Hall in 1874/5.

     

    To English ears, this organ is *EXTREMELY* loud. The Great reeds and mixtures come on with a crash and seem to set the entire stage surround to resonate with the sound. It is quite devastating on the stage - not only will it frighten those of a nervous disposition, it will make them hallucinate.

     

    However, many Cavaille-Coll organ experts feel that this organ has been softened and it would have been much louder in its original home.

     

    I hate to think what such an instrument might be like in the relatively intimate environs of Sheffield Cathedral if the original voicing is kept. I also wonder how the cathedral organists will cope with such an instrument day-to-day to accompany evensong - the realities of living with such an organ may be very different to the dream. Long term I would worry how the nature of the instrument may become diffused as succesive organists strive to make it fit better for its purposes in the musical life of the Cathedral. I am concerned that they may not yet be fully aware of what they are letting themselves in for.

  9. As an alternative to traditional bellows types, one often meets with what I call the 'floating pan' reservoir. I understand that there are several names for this type of reservoir and some even call it Schwimmer type, I believe. We all know that the use of adequate electric blowers has tended to relegate the reservoir to more the role of a regulator. In this connection, I'd be interested to know if, and how, the size of such reservoirs can be equated to the 'stop value' of an organ. Also, what part the choice of wind valves plays in any such calculations; that is, whether an inboard valve (inside the reservoir) or external slide or roller valve. All views and comments are most welcome. Thanks.

    There is an article in the IBO's Organ Building Journal, Vol.7 "A method for calculating wind reservoir size" by Andrew Moyes, which you may find to be of interest. In this article Andrew explains the process and calculations he uses to size regulators.

  10. How fast do people think the Final of Sonata 1 should go? I have MM crotchet = 120 in my copy but I feel this is too fast. It sounds too hurried at this pace to make good listening. Even the firey, youthful performance Raul Prieto Ramirez (youtube link above) clocks in at about 104-108, which I feel is about the right speed. What do other people think?

  11. As we'd moved Epiphany back to the Sunday just gone and St Mary's choir are still on holiday, I went to St Peters tonight for their Eucharist for Epiphany. The organ was installed just before Christmas I believe and so is now fully functional.

     

    I suppose the question everyone will be asking is - could I tell the digital and the pipes apart? My answer is no - but I daresay others with a more expert ear might be able to. We had F in Darke mass, so the full range from an ethereal opening to the Sanctus to a much fuller sound in the louder bits - and it was full without being over-bearing. Introit (Rising of the Sun) and Anthem (The Three Kings) were both unaccompanied. We were given a pretty good taste of some of the solo colours, particularly in the pre-service improvisation on the hymn tune 'Dundee' and then in the Buxtehude 'Wie schon...' at the end. In the hymns themselves you could clearly tell that the Great was speaking out into the nave to support congregational singing - I would have liked to hear rather more variety in the hymn accompaniments perhaps (I wouldn't say I'm subtle with my registration changes in hymns!). It certainly had plenty of foundation in the pedal - the congregation this evening was about 30-odd but it could easily handle many more I'm sure.

     

    The old case facing the nave has been retained, the new case into the choir houses pipes and digital stops I believe. http://www.nottinghamchurches.org/music/th.../stpetersorgan/ has some photos - the lighter case being the new one for the choir.

     

    If you want to go and hear the organ, they are now using February as a month for celebration of the instrument, and the four Saturday morning 'Coffee break concerts' at 11am all feature the organ as follows:

    5th - Dedication by the Bishop followed by Gala Organ Recital - Paul Hale

    12th - Choral Pieces with the Choir of St Peters

    19th - Silent Comedy with Improvised Accompaniment by Donald MacKenzie

    26th - Handel Organ Concerto Opus 4 No. 4 in F and Poulenc Organ Concerto in g - Peter Siepmann (DOM) & Philip Collin at the console with Sarabande

    Or the 2nd April (11am again) is Durufle Requiem with the church choir accompanied by John Keys which may be of interest.

    David Briggs, as mentioned above, will now give his recital on 30th July.

    Alternatively, the music list http://www.nottinghamchurches.org/assets/P...-2011-01-06.pdf shows the many choral services which offer the opportunity to hear the organ perform its main function of service accompaniment.

     

    Unfortunately I can't make the Gala Recital but I will try to go and hear it again soon.

     

    Interesting to see Paul Hale is giving the inaugural recital. As a member of AIOA and as editor of the Organ Building journal produced by the IBO (which specifically forbids its members from entering into hybrid organ projects), I would have thought he would not have touched this project with a disinfected barge pole.

     

    Is it just me or does the new case have tapered prospect pipes? It makes it look like the prospect pipes are planted too far apart, which doesn't look entirely to its advantage.

  12. This appears to have started with Cecil Clutton, and been continued by Peter Williams; but Stephen Bicknell points out there there is no hard evidence for their view. The main points seem to be a hint of similarity in nomenclature for high stops (e.g. Two and Twentieth), and a tendency towards longer compasses than elsewhere. Other things suggested by Williams seem so generic (not to mention speculative) as not to indicate any real link.

     

    Also, pre-1650 would be more realistic - at the restoration, the builders returning or coming from France and Holland become the obvious influences (think Harris and Smith).

     

    Paul

    The Spanish also shared the tradition of naming their upper ranks by the partial from the unison - octava, docena, quincena, decinovena, etc. I think it would be interesting to speculate on the relationship between the Italian and Spanish organ, its design and repertoire, of the 16th to 18th Century, especially in relation to the social, religious and political relationships of the Mediterranean states of this period.

     

    It is also interesting to speculate on the relationship between between the English and Dutch schools of the 16th and 17th Century - things like a Fantasia on a Fugue of Sweelinck by John Bull whet the appetite for what interaction might have been going on between these composers (and the organs they knew) at this time. When one considers the writings of Praetorius and his designs for 6ft, 8ft, 12ft, 16ft organs, etc and the early cases known in England - such as the 6ft cases at Old Radnor - and compare against nearly contemporary cases such as the van Covalens choir organ Alkmaar - one is led to speculate about the cross-pollination of ideas.

  13. Whether or not it returns is not yet decided, but should they decide against, there are other venues in Southampton expressing keen interest in housing it in an unaltered condition. In my view it would in any case benefit from a more generous acoustic.

    Which venues are expressing an interest?

  14. I was wondering if anyone was going to bring up the psalms from Christchurch! I had to pull over and stop the car! Quite extraordinary. I have a feeling there is an ancient psalter (perhaps the old cathedral psalter?) that was popular in the early 20th century and advocated this style of chanting; if I remember correctly in the preface, it suggested that if there was a long "gathering" on the penultimate syllable of each half verse, then the following verse would start together!!!

    I dont remember Christchurch singing the psalms this way before - maybe they did it for a dare, but whatever the reason, to me, it made a nonsense of the meaning, let alone the musical flow!

     

    Richard

    That is how Christchurch always sing their psalms. They've done it like that each time I've visited.

  15. Very cute David / Hecklephone. Thanks for that. It sounds very pretty. Any chance of hearing the Regal avec Bourdon 8 seule?

     

    @Vox: Yes, sometimes using a 4ft bass and 8ft solo in the treble you do get the accompaniment going higher than the solo line. Not to worry - the Vox Humana should be quite a strong voice in this style of music and besides, Bach's lines often cross in his fugues. Just thinking about it, the French Harmoniums used similar devices - a 16ft voice above middle c and a 4ft voice in the treble so you could do two voices on the same keyboard. All clever stuff.

  16. I have come across *VERY* few good regals on recent instruments, especially on these shores. To me, many of them are far too thin, brittle and variable in tone and tuning to be of much use but this is probably more to do with the aesthetics of time when they were built than the skills of the builder.

     

    Most of the historic treatises on registration recommend a foundation stop, such as a bourdon, is always drawn with a Vox Humana and this is wise advice, especially with the rather anaemic regals found on many instruments built over the past 50 years.

     

    The Vox Humana (Flentrop) at Dunblane Cathedral is a good example of Dutch practice.

    Willis I Vox Humanas are usually very good.

    The Vox Humana at Adlington Hall (which I've only heard in a recording) is good. It can be heard here: http://www.npor.org.uk/cgi-bin/NPaudio.cgi...Code=3&No=3, although I wish it had been drawn with something else to fill the sound out - it doesn't sound quite right to my ears by itself. I've always liked the Bassoon on this organ too: http://www.npor.org.uk/cgi-bin/NPaudio.cgi...ode=3&No=12

     

    The Vox Humanas of J.C.Mueller (Waalsekerk, and Beverwijk) are *extremely* fine. Beautiful examples at both these churches, both of which highlight their extreme sensitivity to touch and wind supply. The Haarlem example is OK too but let down by the decreased pressures and 1960s soundboards, action and wind supply. The effects of these factors are often overlooked or misunderstood on these stops. An afternoon getting to grips with the Vox Humana at Beverwijk is a frustrating but ultimately rewarding experience as you get to grips first hand with the interplay between touch, managing the wind supply and using these effects to aid the music. This lesson could not be learnt on an organ with a Schwimmer-based wind system.

     

    I have come across some fine examples of French Classical Voix Humaines. Here is an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI1f7_V75GA

    I wish more builders of neo-classical instruments had aimed for this more full-bodied, rich and beautifully finished style of Regal, which this clip beautifully demonstrates, because I think there would then be more understanding of the place, use and function of these stops in the UK.

     

    Vox: your Carisbrooke example could be used in the Spanish style, with the bass half of the instrument playing several contrapuntal lines and the Vox Humana playing the cantus firmus in the right hand. The tientos of Spanish composers demonstrate how this is done - quite frequently the right hand plays 2 parts - the cantus firmus on the solo in the treble half of the instrument and another part that never goes above Mid C.

  17. In case anyone had plans to attend the opening weekend, see this which has appeared on the church website:

     

    It is with great disappointment that the Organ Festival Weekend advertised at St Peter's for 20th and 21st November has had to be postponed. We have been very seriously let down by one of the partners involved in the build, and despite many difficult conversations over the past two weeks, the situation cannot be rectified in time for the planned celebrations. Whereas the pipes and new casework now stand tantalizingly in the chancel balcony and behind the restored North Aisle case, the organ's console still languishes in a factory in Oregon, awaiting a final, but vital, piece of equipment. It is this that has required the dreadfully disappointing decision to postpone the Bishop's dedication and the David Briggs recital. Instead, the new organ will be brought into commission over the next couple of months and we hope, following some words of blessing at a morning service, used during the Advent and Christmas season. The formal dedication will be rescheduled for the New Year, and the February gala series of Coffee Break Concerts will go ahead as planned, starting with the gala recital given by Paul Hale, who has been of tremendous support during this difficult time. David Briggs has agreed to reschedule his recital and 2011 dates are being explored.

     

    It is always disappointing to read of postponed plans but it is never recommended to schedule an inaugural recital until an organ has been completed, for good reason. In this case, with several suppliers involved, the risk of some part slipping behind schedule can only increase.

  18. I find the news about the destruction of this organ distressing. I wondered whether the church might have good grounds for legal action and compensation against the pastor for this wanton - and, it seems, unilateral - destruction of one of their assets?

     

    Even if the church decided they did not want the organ any longer, they have now lost the opportunity to sell it, so this action has incurred financial loss to the church.

     

    Knowing the American appetite for a legal battle, I am sure the lawyers are already sharpening their claws...

  19. Sharp-pitched though. Might be an issue.
    True, but not an impossible issue. I suspect if you didn't tell them, 95% of the choir probably wouldn't notice.

     

    @ P W Hodges - yes, agreed! I can't think of many recordings of this organ. It really deserves to be heard and recorded more than it is. If we can put something together...

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