P DeVile
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Posts posted by P DeVile
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2 hours ago, SomeChap said:
I'm a bit confused by this! I was under the impression that what everyone didn't like about the old Mander was that it was too big, and essentially muffled itself in the cramped chamber. But this new proposal is four stops bigger!
It is pretty much the same size as the previous instrument but laid out very differently - the Mander has all the manual action soundboards in the west case with the pedals in the east. The old organ was laid out across the two bays - all manual action soundboards being directly behind the cases with pedal chests behind, so the sound got into the chapel much better
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3 hours ago, Paul Isom said:
I'm slightly surprised that Andrew Nesthingha doesn't appear to have been rewarded for his work at the King's Coronation, whereas other musicians who participated were awarded honours (the conductor of the orchestra for instance). If he has been missed out, surely this is a dreadful oversight. Surely a worthier recipient than Ms Lapwood.....
Oh dear Paul, Andrew got there just before the event really and did a wonderful job with the choir but at the moment for that one occasion. Anna Lapwood has been seriously important in raising the organ/choral game to the general public. She has done more to get young people interested - particularly women.
Peter
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18 hours ago, Martin Cooke said:
Was anyone from the forum present at Thomas Trotter's recital yesterday? 40% of the pipework, according to H&H, is new, so it must sound quite different. It would be good to hear comment, if possible.
But, I watched the Evensong and Re-dedication on YouTube today. This was the second time in the recent past that I have seen a clergyperson throw water at a brand new instrument! The other occasion was the dedication of the new console at St Thomas, Fifth Avenue. What do I know, but is this really sensible? At Norwich, not only did the Bishop scatter water at the organ case, but he censed it, and then bashed it with his crosier, like a new Bishop does to gain entry to their cathedral at their enthronement. Again, is this appropriate? Can you imagine dedicating the Bishop's new car, during which the Bishop cracks the end of the crozier into the driver's door? 🤨 If one of the choristers had sprayed water from their drink bottle at the new organ or bashed it with their bicycle pump, I'd be surprised if someone hadn't 'had a word in their shell-like.' It seems a bizarre way to treat a new instrument.
There is a delightful video also on YouTube of H&H's Andrew Fiddes talking about the new organ. It's really heartwarming to watch and to hear Andrew speaking so passionately about his work. Here it is.
I was at the recital and it was wonderful. The HNB sound has been retained with the 1970s pipework replaced with new but in the original 1942 type of voicing. Having looked after the organ for the best part of 30 years I was hugely impressed with how the sound now properly speaks both ways from the screen. Well done H&H!
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On 04/11/2023 at 15:11, Colin Pykett said:
Warning - a diversion for audio nerds coming up here:
I've just come across yet another instance of the default sound settings on computers (or other devices such as tablets) going in exactly the opposite direction to what most right-minded people would consider to be high fidelity. For some reason I've never been able to discover, manufacturers of sound chips or sound cards seem unable to resist meddling with the signal you want to listen to. A common and typically egregious example concerns headphone listening - if your device thinks you are using headphones, which is usually the default option on a device when you buy it, you can bet good money that something more or less awful will be done to the sound before you hear it. I've been struggling to identify the source of gross distortion, which sounds like clipping, on a recording of Guilmant's Pastorale from his Sonata number 1 in D minor. The distortion occurs whenever the 32 foot flue stop comes on while accompanying the Vox Humana. Although subjectively very quiet, the recorded signal amplitude at these points is admittedly very high owing to the low frequency flue, but I know full well that there's no clipping because I made the flippin' recording myself! So what's going on? It's not just a question of simply adjusting the volume because the distortion occurred with any combination of gain settings.
Playing the same recording on different machines, when there was no distortion, confirmed that it only occurred on a Windows 10 laptop with some sort of Realtek sound system. Lo and behold, poking around within the sound settings finally revealed a tab labelled 'Advanced' which had a box showing that something called 'Enable audio enhancements' was ticked. So I unticked it. (It's always worth looking into anything called Advanced). Elsewhere I found another tab labelled 'Spatial sound' where something else called 'Windows Sonic for Headphones' was enabled. So I killed that as well. Finally I changed the output device to 'External speakers' from 'Headphones' - this seemed the closest match to what I was actually doing (feeding the signal from the output jack into an external hifi amplifier).
Result: perfection.
Moral: go through your sound settings with a tooth comb and kill everything that you don't understand or need.
Rant over. I'm now heading for the cupboard containing that single malt I'd forgotten about ...
Or get a Mac.....!
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14 hours ago, Rowland Wateridge said:
Intriguing on several levels: Herbert Norman sending a photograph of a HN&B organ (?) to HW 4. Any possibility of its being a Willis organ being worked on by HN&B? The pipe being hoisted (up or down?) appears to be decorated as do the large 32’ open metal foot and sections standing on the floor beside the man, also others lying on the floor, suggesting that all are display pipes - clearly a substantial organ with a 32’ in the front. There’s not much to work on with the building. Kingsway Hall was very much wider, with galleries to right and left I believe, and the proscenium arch was higher and much more curved. So, at present, all questions without any answers!
This was taken by me in 1978 in Kingsway Hall
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I can confirm this - he has retired as far as I know
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If the organ has not been changed tonally, the Clarinet should be kept and restored. A competent reed voicer will be able to make it stable and milky as clarinets should be. PM me if you would like recommendations....
Reeds keep their pitch(ish) but the flues go with the flow temperature and pitchwise which is why at the moment with the weather as it is, it would be best to avoid any reeds at all!
Peter
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On 14/06/2022 at 12:55, SomeChap said:
Thanks for posting, some interesting changes there. My understanding -
- Great Primary is renamed Grand Organ (is this already in the Triforium or is it to be moved? Which bit of the triforium?) 32 Manual Flue thankfully expunged. 5 1/3 Quint also expunged - comments anyone? Harmonic Flute 8 transferred from Solo by the looks.
- Great Secondary essentially replaced with a beefier Screen Great, mostly new. Does the fact that both Gt Open Diapasons are new mean that we get lovely new tin case pipes? Is the new Screen Gt West or East-facing?
- New Gt and Sw chorus reeds and mixture work. (New Sw celestes too.)
- New-ish Choir organ combining old positiv and 'Swell Choir' with new chorus reeds and mixture. I daresay few will mourn the old Positif.
- Pedal new chorus work at 8 / 4
- Solo seemingly new French Horn despite the fact that the Solo already had an Orchestral Horn and there's a Horn on the Swell!
Blimey is there really room in the case for six independent 16' pedal flues? (plus borrowings!) I can't help but wonder if tonal egress might be better if a couple of them were ditched or moved to triforium? And just the one extended pedal reed rank - this must be the old Ophicleide re-badged?
So there's a _lot_ of new manual chorus work; I suspect it could sound like a new organ!
Looks like Harrisons are doing the same trick I understand they did at York with separate E/W Swell shutters - seems sensible. The choir is no longer enclosed, so that's one less swell enclosure to block sound egress. It looks like the new scheme is much more versatile from the East side of the screen (esp if the Screen Gt is East-facing)?
I think I like the look of it!
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ETA: Aha NPOR tells me that Primary Gt and Pedal Clobberwork are already in Triforium.
Great Primary is in the North triforium, one bay westwards of the case so I assume it will go roughly in the same area. The Quint was not used much but actually a really lovely flute but I think you are correct that the Solo Flute will be exported.
The Great secondary was a 1969 ish change and I always thought that it didn't match the rest of the organ. I hope that the case pipes remain as they are - tin would not work with that design.
The solo french horn was the old Tuba from the N&B 5 manual and was not a happy bunny, collapsing etc.
As far as I know - the floor level will be unenclosed choir organ chancel side with the enclosed solo west side but speaking both ways with a double-front. Upstairs will be double-decker Swell and Great but sideways on so can speak both ways. The pedal section I guess will again be on both sides of the triforia - I always wondered why the 16-8-4 pedal reed unit was put on the south side with the 32ft bottom octave directly behind the console!
It was a lovely instrument to work on - I did it for nigh-on 30 years and look forward to its reincarnation.
Peter
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3 hours ago, Rowland Wateridge said:
Well, I can’t answer from personal knowledge questions about Norwich. Peter De Vile says that the Echo had definitely gone by 1990. The NPOR 1970 survey lists the last work done on the organ by HN&B in 1968/1970, so that seems a reasonable inference to draw. If the point is important (!) only someone with local knowledge can supply an answer. Frank Fowler would have known but, sadly, he is no longer with us.
My predecessor Neville Newby started looking after the organ in 1949 and I remember him telling me that he couldn't remember much about the Echo department apart from having some gongs! so we should assume that it was removed at or before 1968.
With regard to the forthcoming work, I gather that the pipes are being kept but everything else will be new. I personally hope that the console will be retained.
The big problem there has always been that the sound is very west-facing with Primary and Secondary Great, Swell and Solo speaking that way. The chancel is served essentially by both Choir and Positive sections which can be split to be a two manual. Not much good for the big choral stuff! I think that the idea is to have the Great and Swell sections within the case but sideways on so the sound will go both ways.
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50 minutes ago, John Furse said:
Do you mean the pipes are no longer there ?
I seem to recall being told (by someone who should've known) that they were still 'aloft'. Mind you, this was a long time ago - but not 60 years !
They are certainly not there - I speak as one who looked after the organ from 1990 until a couple of years ago!
Peter
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14 hours ago, John Furse said:
Will the Echo division (I'm told it's 'magical') remain unconnected, therefore ?
See: NPORView D06117 for what is presumably still up in the Triforium.
The Echo department was removed at least 60 years ago.
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22 hours ago, SomeChap said:
Not loads to add to this, except to say that John's sounded stunning on the radio for Advent Sunday yesterday. The Anglican choral tradition is not dead yet, and it's in good hands there. The new developments are very exciting; to allow girls to access that level of inspiring and transporting musicianship is only going to bring even more good things. I cant wait to hear it!
Having been a chorister at St John's centuries ago I absolutely go with adding girls - it is the right thing to do in this day and age and can only benefit the choir. Andrew Nethsingha is an absolute master at getting the sound he wants.
The Advent carol service was truly amazing - especially as Andrew wasn't there having tested positive and the top line was down to 10 boys. The organ scholar, George Herbert conducted and Joseph Wicks came in at the last minute to play the organ. Wonderful stuff!
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Awful news that the factory has been destroyed by fire yesterday. Fortunately nobody was killed but one guy got badly burned.
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7 hours ago, handsoff said:
Is not the traditional replacement for a broken fan belt a ladies' stocking? 🤯
Maybe but I'm not going there and anyway, it is high up in the case and I can't reach it!
The organ is in remarkably good fettle and sounds good - some of the stops are a little dated (Pedal 16ft reed is quite unpleasant) - but tunes up well. The one problem that I have is finding the great mixture and odd pedal upperwork pipes out of their holes because the college electricians have to climb into the instrument to change the striplights which surround the blacked out west window.....
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On 27/04/2021 at 17:23, sjf1967 said:
TWO Zimbelsterns, I think!
One set of bells but two stars. Neither turn any more because the fan-belts both broke and I can't get any replacements!
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12 hours ago, DariusB said:
I certainly didn't mean to cause offence - apologies if any was taken. As you say, they're of their time, and some things from then have lasted better than others. But I wonder if the recording is also a problem - I rarely use en chamade reeds for anything recorded, because a mic placement close enough to ensure general clarity is often too close for chamades to sound any good.
None taken!
P
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7 hours ago, DariusB said:
Hopefully, not like the solo reed on the recently-binned Radley College organ which turned up on Radio 3 yesterday? The presenter described the sound as 'extraordinary' - which is one way of putting it.
Ok - definitely not HNBs finest but they were doing what was asked of them by the college. They wanted party horns on next to no wind pressure and being a company who were not used to low pressure mechanical action did what they could. I speak as one who worked on the organ and for a while looked after it. The voicing of the organ (apart from the party horns) was pretty well perfect.
To put this into context, the HNB organ is being removed because the chapel is being hugely enlarged so it won't be able to cope.
By the way....
Horizontal trumpets have been around for a while and have always been a love 'em or hate' em thing. For me, the best example of them are on the organ of St John's Cambridge. I'm not talking about the 1994 Mander organ because they were installed in 1954 by Hill, Norman and Beard and were experimental because Spanish trumpets were not 'a thing' in English organs. The experiment worked - the organ sounded fabulous ( I know because I was a chorister and was inspired to be an organ builder).
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8 minutes ago, Achilles 3201 said:
Almost three years on, it is strange that there is no further news.
As far as I know the organ will come out in September 2022 and the restored instrument back in ready for Advent 2023.
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I can remember holding keys as an apprentice at Holy Trinity Kingsway London which was an HNB organ and had both None and Septieme on the swell. The combined sound was enough to make your fillings fall out.....
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2 hours ago, Achilles 3201 said:
I hope the rebuilt organ will sound a bit more interesting.
What have you found not interesting??
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On 18/08/2020 at 12:05, headcase said:
In later years, Deane organ builders identified that the action valves exhausting the Swell power-motors were too small, choking their response
Another issue with the Swell being audibly slow at the console was because of where it was in the chamber. I was assistant to HNBs MD, Frank Fowler in the London office for 14 months and Dudley Holroyd (who was a great musician etc but could also be a tad awkward...) was convinced that this was due to badly adjusted actions. Frank thought otherwise and so we both went there and hung a microphone in the Swell connected to a small amplifier and headphones. When playing the organ normally, the swell was a fraction behind the great but when he put the headphones on, there was hardly any delay. Headcase will correct me but I think the swell box was behind the arch but the great under or in front.
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9 hours ago, Contrabombarde said:
And what do organ builders recommend to clean and disinfect surfaces with?
A small amount of Methylated spirits on a cloth is sufficient to wipe over keys and stop knobs but never soak them.
Peter
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St John's, Cambridge
in The Organ
Posted
The Trompeta is being kept