notebasher
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Posts posted by notebasher
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I wish that I knew more about the fate of the Anneessens organ at Bradford, and of that which once stood in St.Joseph’s Church, Bradford, about a mile or so away. What I do know is largely anecdotal, with bits of proper information thrown in to confuse everything. It’s sad really, because I played the original Anneessens at St.Joseph’s when it was there, I have given a recital on the organ of St.Mary’s, and at 15, I made bits for the organ re-build at Bridlington Priory.
For the record, there was another Anneessens in Lancashire which we used to try to tune and maintain without much success. It was near to Nelson/Burnley, and may well have been at Barrowford, in the Congregational church. The fascinating thing about this latter organ was the console, which had chroma-key, ceramic stop-heads in pretty pinks and blues and greens; running horizontally above the top manual. I seem to recall that the console of St.J’s, Bradford was similar.
(Interestingly, Bradford also had a Walcker instrument at Otley Road, Methodist Church, of which I know absolutely nothing beyond the fact that I saw it listed in an original Walcker brochure.)
Some may feel that Bradford was not kind to some of the more interesting instruments, and perhaps the greatest loss was that of an absolutely magnificent 4-manual Isaac Abbott instrument when St.Mark’s church was demolished. A few people still mention it to-day with mist (possibly cataracts) in their eyes.
Bradford is now something of a cultural desert with a hole in the middle, as a result of building contractors running out of money.
However, back to the Belgian instruments and what bit I know about them. The great problem, (in all fairness to Bradford), was the fact that Anneessens used very soft pipe-metal (a lack of Antimony in the metal alloy), and very dubious (early) electrics. The action patent is interesting, because my understanding of it is that Mols & Schmoel were an American/Belgian company, who worked outside the organ trade in the wider field of electrical engineering. (I stand to be corrected, as always).
The St.Joseph’s instrument was in a parlous state when I played it, with many of the flue and reed basses in a twisted, mangled state, but somehow still making a sound. When it was in tune, (not very often), the sound was rather grand, with plenty of fine reed tone. The flutes were especially nice, but for me, the most beautiful register of all was the free-reed Clarinet, which in a big acoustic, sounded quite ravishing. Overall, the tonal quality was excellent, but the structural quality too flimsy. I have no idea what happened to the instrument. I assume it was scrapped, and replaced by the second-hand Binns which now reliably supports the singing.
St.Mary’s, (now closed), was always a vast barn of a church, with a big acoustic and enormous height and width. It’s a big space inside, and whatever organ was going to go in there, would have to make plenty of sound if it was to be effective. Quite why the choice of builder went to Anneessens is anyone’s guess, but perhaps it was the personal whim of the then priest who paid for it. The organ had been an exhibition instrument, as I understand it. In any event, it was a big instrument with 5-manuals, though I’m not sure if the 5th manual wasn’t just a coupler division. The opening recital was given, if I recall correctly, by Jaques Lemmens.
Judging by the very limited life of this instrument in its original guise,(13 years), one must assume that reliability was a problem, and the action was soon replaced by an ultra-reliable Binns pneumatic, which must have been an improvement on the original.
At a guess, this instrument must have suffered the same problems as the other Belgian organ up the road, because it would simply have cost too much to re-build, even in the relatively affluent 1970’s.....but wait a minute, was it the 1970’s??????
I have absolutely no memory of the earlier instrument, but I have a memory of the current console when it was situated in the sanctuary rather than the nave. I would have been very young at the time; possibly around 18 -20 years of age. That would almost certainly mean lat 1960’s rather than mid-70’s when the organ was replaced by the Booth organ from Cleckheaton Methodist church.
The acquisition of the Booth organ from Cleckheaton was interesting, if presenting something of an historical dilemma, because the preservation of one historic organ meant the destruction of another.
Now this is where things get a little hazy, due to the fact that Mr Hanson, the last organist of the church (so far as I am aware), is now deceased. He knew the history of both instruments. However, the organ-building name of Booth covers more than one company, and it is my understanding that the Booth who built the organ for Cleckheaton, was not ‘Booth of Wakefield,’ but another Booth, (I think related), who set up business in Otley, nr.Leeds. This particular Booth worked closely with Schulze, and it is known that Schulze voiced quite a number of ranks for Booth, and Booth studied Schulze carefully and even worked with him; possibly in collaboration. (One RC priest rather unkindly suggested that Schulze probably had more disciples than one Jesus of Nazareth!)
Another organ, by the same builder and with the same Schulze association, used to stand in the Methodist Church, Mornington Rd., Bingley, and a new home was found for this and the instrument saved.
I spoke to Peter Wood about the organ at St.Mary’s, Bradford, but he had no re-collection of it from the time that Wood, Wordswoth & Co., re-built the instrument from Cleckheaton, which surprised me. Unfortunately, all the records of the company went up in smoke in a fire, and the firm went pop possibly at the same time, but I don’t actually know when. However, I have one clue, which sticks in my mind from a very long time ago, when I was shown around the inside of the organ at Leeds Town Hall, by Peter Wood, just after the re-build in the early 70’s. For some strange reason, I recall being informed that the 32ft reed was from St.Mary’s, Bradford, even though the organ always had a 32ft reed. Whether or not this is true is immaterial, because it would place the date to pre-1972 when the Anneessens organ at St.Mary’s was removed. (Was the original Gray & Davison 32ft reed ineffective at Leeds Town Hall?)
Perhaps a further clue is my memory of a piston capture system at St Mary’s, which had the usual switch toggles with coloured plastic caps.
At around this time, Wood, Wordswoth & Co., had done a lot of big jobs....Leeds PC, Leeds Town Hall and Blenheim Palace, and St Mary’s was probably the least of these in terms of contract size, but the work at Leeds PC started in, I believe, 1965; that at the Town Hall around 1972.
Never mind what the date may have been, three things were remarkable about the organ at St.Mary’s. First was the huge detached console, second was the magnificent Anneseens case work with 16ft front (presumably with the original pipes intact), and the third was the terrible condition of the winding, which meant that the organ never spoke properly and never stayed in tune when I played it about ten years or more ago. Being quite a wealthy man, the then organist, Mr Hanson, poured a lot of personal money into the instrument, and the last time I played the instrument, John T Jackson had fettled things, installed a computerised stop-action, moved the Tuba to the top of the Swell box and sorted out the winding. Although not really a big enough sound for the church, it was a good quality sound, and I’m very pleased that I finally heard the organ as it was meant to be heard in the last years of the church being open. I think I last played the organ there for the funeral of a friend, in 2002 or so.
How much of the original Anneesens remained I cannot say, but the 32ft Gross Flute was certainly from the original instrument. However, I believe certain other things may well have been Anneessens also, but I have no idea which bits. (I think the Ocarina stop was original).
Whatever happened to the remainder of the Anneseens pipework, I know nothing, but we should bear in mind the fire.
As Tony Newham knows only too well, most of the good organs perished in Bradford, and many of the poorer quality ones have remained; possibly because they were in smaller, less prestigious buildings. I remember the old Laycock & Bannister at his church in Heaton, (the old building; now demolished), and I seem to recall playing for a couple of services once, when I was still a tiny mite of 15 or so. The remarkable thing about the organ was not the bread & butter, workmanlike sound of the ever reliable L & B style, but the sheer panache of the reeds, which were reputed to have been by Cavaille-Coll. That is more than likely, because a church local to me, with a Laycock & Bannister organ, has the most ravishing Vox Humana made of tin, which cost £100, at a time when whole organs could be built for around £400!
I’m sorry I can’t be more specific about the details of these instruments, and now that most have gone or the churches closed, it is probably too late to worry about it all. However, my gut feeling is that the details relating to the big jobs which Wood,Wordsworth & Co., carried out before their demise, may well be inaccurate in the NPOR, and in view of what happened to the company records, this is probably quite understandable. There is no record of the company in the NPOR, other than references to it under specific organ listings.
MM
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Go figure: we would import an historic organ from 5000 km away,
something which is a rarity even there, and this, just to "better"
it after "our modern standards" ? I see no point there...
Pierre
I wouldn't have thought the balanced swell was an original feature, given its date.
R
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Don't look too hard - it ended on Thursday at £63. There's another on ebay though, in Anglesey, found in a barn!
Well this one may be OK but it's vital you check out the wind pressures - both of the organ and the blower, as described on e-bay there's not that sort of information. Also the static blower pressure is that usually quoted, but you need to make an allowance for the falling off of pressure that occurs when the blower is supplying wind when the organ's played. So you will need the blower pressure to exceed the highest pressure the organ works on. But you can maybe check the old blower output which may cover it.
You could look too at this website http://www.bobstevenson.co.uk/organ_blower_fans.pdf but I can't read the scanned bits which are the ones you want! And it's an idea to make sure your electricity supply is correct - in this case, single phase. Some churches used 3-phase supplies for blowers. 3-phase supply to a 1-phase motor can be done, but not the reverse. Also suggest you ckeck the motor bearings.
Hope this helps and good luck!
Ron
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I too was "stuck" in bradford , missed out on a lunch buffet, , but what was worse,,,,, it was paid for 2 weeks ago.
It was my first Bradford recital, and loved the bit where he said it was in sore need of a " 32' pedal reed"
Yes Peter I liked the bit about the 32' reed too - we'd all like one of those! But without knowing the internals of the cathedral organ, they do take up rather a lot of space! Some would say that organ needs a great 16' double first, the only manual double is a 16' quintaton on the choir.
Shame about your lunch though...
R
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Absolutely, I love him and he does put bums on seats, and he does not suffer fools gladly.
How many concerts can be described as "packed" these days ?
Colin Richell
Yes it was quite the highest attendance I've seen there at a recital for some time, and an excellent start to the Bradford Association's centenary year. And then this morning up here in the frozen north we woke up to some 3" of snow to negotiate - the 15 minute journey to Shipley took twice as long...
R
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Yes, I noticed that on the NPOR photographs of St Peter's. Looks decidedly impractical!
http://www.npor.org.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch.cgi...ec_index=N04512
Lutterworth (Gern 1885, Taylor 1950-ish) had/has these small stops. I was organist in the late 70s and these were never a problem, you very soon got used to them. The pistons were adjustable by lifting the console lid and moving a setter, they also had double touch which was very useful for both the manual and pedal pistons had it. I've no idea how much Taylors altered it, the spec didn't change much although I'm certain the reeds had been revoiced, especially the Great reed which was labelled Tromba and was certainly voiced as one. But a convincing organ too. I last played it about 7 years ago when there was talk of a rebuild. Wonder if that happened?
R
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Hi
The lack of Sw-Ped might be an indication that the organ has/had a Tenor-C Swell.
Every Blessing
Tony
The swell is C compass. I suppose it could have started as a TC department, but if they went to the trouble of adding a bass octave, you'd have thought they'd add a coupler as well. It always puzzled me when I used to play it, but nobody seemed to know much about it! Not much changed then. It was a good solid village organ, don't know if it's in use nowadays.
R
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Hello Will
I remember the Gilmorton organ, having last played it in the late 70s when we lived in Lutterworth. If it's in a poor way now, it wasn't much better mechanically then. Porritt's organs sem to just go on and on, and as I recall this one is totally unaltered apart from the addition of the choir organ. On the few occasions I played it I was quite impressed, even then thinking how good it could be if restored. From what you say it doesn't sound as if anything has been done to it.
The only other Porritt I played was Bitteswell, small 2 manual with no Swell - Pedal coupler for some reason. Also, the NPOR survey gives the pedal compass as C-f, but my recollection is that it was c compass, two octaves (I nearly fell off going for a top d that wasn't there!). Did the firm do many slightly quirky organs like that? Hard to imagine quite why!!!
R
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Warning though: if you do watch it don't expect to necessarily enjoy the rest of the music - I can't say I'm a fan of the foot-tapping, big-band style renditions of the hymns on this programme.Apart from the organ bit, I found the rest of it rather a let-down - the choice of hymns lacked variety, if the organ was played for any of them it was inaudible, swamped by the band. It seemed a shame that having showcased the organ we weren't allowed to hear it in an accompanying role. The audience were 'twitchy' sporting inane smirks as if they'd all been on a magic mushrooms trip, and what's all this clapping at the end of every hymn, who were they applauding? Themselves maybe? And as for the conductor, well I know it's the pantomime season but he looked as if he was going onstage straight after the show. Otherwise, very enjoyable...
R
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Bradford Organists' Association are organising an 'Organ Extravaganza' featuring Carlo Curley at Bradford Cathedral on Saturday 20th February, 7.30 p.m. Tickets £10 (£8 concessions). This is part of the Association's Centenary Year celebrations. BOA is 100 years old and 100+ members strong (no founder members now, sadly!).
Ron
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Brilliant ! Can it be indexed by tune, with some sort of indication of whether it is just a last verse harmonisation, a descant or both ?
Thank you for taking the trouble to set this up. At last...something of real practical value.
H
Yes thanks for doing this, it does work, even I can print off from it. Fantastic!
R
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...and Happy New Year from me.
A
...and from me too.
R
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Is there somewhere forum contributors could offer last verse harmonisations/descants ? I have one I would willingly submit.
H
Now that's a good idea. But how to implement it?
R
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But it's been got at since then I'm afraid - Kimber-Allen plastic draw knobs!
DW
I blame Fred...
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Sorry to be pedantic, but are you sure GTB was an Englishman?
Ian
According to Jonathan Rennert's book GTB was born in Sydney of Cornish parents, returned to UK aged three. I don't know what that made him - technically Australian I would think.
R
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St Paul's Shipley, West Yorkshire.
Saturday 28 November at 2.30 p.m., Organ Concert by Paul Fisher, see http://www.paulfishermusic.co.uk/index.php who will play this programme:-
`Mr Men & Little Misses` - arr. Fisher;
A Ground (from `Little Organ Suite`) - Nigel Allcoat;
Prelude & Fugue in C major BWV547 (`The Great`) - JS Bach;
Clair de Lune (from `Pieces de Fantaisie`) - Louis Vierne;
Fantaisie in A - Cesar Franck;
`Sheila`s Rock Cakes`(World Premiere) - Paul Fisher;
Love Song - Paul Fisher;
Penguins` Playtime - Nigel Ogden;
Toccata - Eugene Gigout.
It's £6 and there will be tea available too. Concert in aid of the church's 1892 3 manual Binns restoration appeal.
Ron
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I can't speak from personal experience of the Parr Hall organ, never having heard it, but if it sounds anything like the 1903 Mutin-Cavaillé-Coll at Notre-Dame de Metz (which has a very similar specification to the Parr Hall C-C), I certainly would like to hear Anglican Chant, Stanford, Howells, etc, played on it. Metz has all the necessary ingredients including a large Open Wood (though obviously called something different) and a fine "full swell" with 16-8-4 reeds and mixture.
It suited Howells "Master Tallis" remarkably well.
My observation on accompanying Anglican chant on this organ was a thought as a result of playing it fairly recently. I agree, the sounds available are wonderful - there are quiet stops of great beauty on this organ - and tonally they certainly would fit the bill quite adequately. But the real issue is the C-C console. There are of course no pistons, there are foot operated ventils bringing on groups of stops in the usual C-C way, and the console is laid out in terraced row of stops as you would expect. Certainly as psalm accompaniment is practised in many cathedrals, this style of console would present considerable practical difficulties with choral accompaniment, and whilst not totally impossible, the subtleties of registration expected would be very difficult to achieve, and I would think very frustrating to most players. Yes, you can do it well enough on traditional English consoles with angled draw-stop jambs and hand registration - earlier generations of organists did it perfectly well and many still can, but to translate this to the Warrington console is another matter altogether and would in my view be a very different challenge. Mind, I did hear the suggestion that perhaps it could be restored with the C-C console and Barker lever action and have added to it a modern electric conventional British console for service accompaniment...
R.
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1. Sheffield Cathedral seems to have no money: have they not been hoping for a new organ for at least ten years ?
2. The Parr Hall organ is pretty well preserved, apart from the action which was thrown out in the 1970s. Any transfer to a new place would surely have to re-instate the original action. Very expensive.
3. If the organ were to be restored properly in an English cathedral I can't imagine any current cathedral organist would put up with such a primitive device. No pistons, no sequencer, no surround-sound nave section.
Can't see it, somehow.
Or do we not mind being the laughing stock of the European organ-world?
Well, how would you like to accompany Anglican chant psalms on it? Never heard any in French churches. And yes I have played the Parr Hall organ.
R.
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1. Sheffield Cathedral seems to have no money: have they not been hoping for a new organ for at least ten years ?
2. The Parr Hall organ is pretty well preserved, apart from the action which was thrown out in the 1970s. Any transfer to a new place would surely have to re-instate the original action. Very expensive.
3. If the organ were to be restored properly in an English cathedral I can't imagine any current cathedral organist would put up with such a primitive device. No pistons, no sequencer, no surround-sound nave section.
Can't see it, somehow.
Or do we not mind being the laughing stock of the European organ-world?
Well, how would you like to accompany Anglican chant psalms on it? Never heard any in French churches. And yes I have played the Parr Hall organ.
R.
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I'm trying to track down the Three Royal Fanfares of Sir Arthur Bliss. I was sure they were published in one of the OUP or Novello albums.
Could someone point me in the right direction?
Cheers
James
I have a copy of the Novello publication. If you have problems gatting a copy you're welcome to borrow mine.
R.
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Many thanks to all who contributed to this discussion. We've had to 'dumb it down' a bit in the end, due to limitations of time, and work on the basis of 'if in doubt, leave it out'. But I've discovered how complicated and confusing copyright law is. If I ever do another recording I'll know to allow much more time for research.
Ron
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Hi Ron,
I done a similiar thing last year, except the CD was of Organ Music, but I suppose it is all much of a muchness. Like you, 100 copies of this CD were made.
Your 'home grown descants and harmonisations' - are these the work of people still associated with the choir? If so, ask them if they are happy with them being used on the CD, and if they are prepared to surrender the copyright, at least for this occasion.
For music that is still in copyright (70 years since the composers death) you need an MRPS license. On their website, they do offer discounts for short run church projects like yours. A license cost me about £30, as I had less than 25 minutes (i think) of music in copyright. If you have over 25 minutes, the fee is greater.
I think that starts to answer your question but if you have anything more specific then I will try and help
Hi David
Thanks for this. The descants and alternative harmonies are the work of the DoM and myself, so no copyright issues there. However, would their use constitute messing around with the composer's work so as to affect their copyright, would you say? For example, for one worship song I've transposed and rearranged the harmony totally to make it more suitable for (my) organ accompaniment. Would there be any issues with this would you think?
Again, thanks for yours and Guilmant's responses.
Ron
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I appreciate that this isn't strictly speaking an organ topic, but if anyone can give some guidance I'd be very grateful. At my main church we're recording A CD of the church choir singing popular hymns and songs, for sale to church members and friends in aid of the organ appeal. Maximum quantity 100. We've arranged a CCLI MRL licence, but a question has arisen as to whether a number of home-grown descants and organ last-verse re-harmonisations would be covered. We don't want to infringe copyright, but equally we don't want the music to be too boring either! Any help anyone can offer would be appreciated.
Ron
Warning though: if you do watch it don't expect to necessarily enjoy the rest of the music - I can't say I'm a fan of the foot-tapping, big-band style renditions of the hymns on this programme.
Youtube
in General discussion
Posted
St John Bowling (Anglican church) had an Anneessens organ which was scrapped off maybe 20 years ago. At the time I was at St Wilfrid Lidget Green and we bought the pedal reed off them and installed it in that organ. As I recall the rest of the organ was scrapped.
R