Ronald Shillingford

Just out of interest does anyone know the Churches with the Organs used in the film 'Four Weddings & Funeral' ? I know the one Church was St Bartholomews in smithfield with its rather raucous Organ. But what was the chapel with that magnificent Case organ facade in the background of for the Funeral would be interested to know if the organ is any good ? Also I gather there was a Church used in Norfolk but I don't know which one ? I still cant stop laughing and wedding no . 2 when Roland really plays that drunken Vicar so well. Met a few of those in my time ha ha ha.

My advice to anyone thinking of buying a off the peg Digital Electronic is to make sure whoever u choose gives you 10 years parts and labour guarantee. There is a difference with the Wyvern -Phoenix system despite the fact they used the same technology. And that is to do with the number of channels available to put through the speaker system. In my opinion they are not enough to give a overall sound. I have a demo CD o f the Phoenix sent to me and I found the Bass to be unsatisfactory and the reeds to be rather too thin and gritty. Of course others might think different. I still say the Makin system is far more superb . The sound of these instruments would blow u away. I have a CD of Ian Tracey playing the Carillon -Sortie by Mulet and it was hard to tell at times if it were a pipe or Electonic I was listening too. Another factor to consider with these instruments is where the internal fuses are located should one blow during a service and yes folks they do blow. I play in a Crematorium and we had to wait a week before we could get a engineer out to put the Organ right. Ask the question too are these Organs protected from electrical storms and magnetic fields ? And the easiest way to tell if a organ is any good or not is when u switch it on ! They should not be any loud thump or hissing at all. If there is then its been badly designed .

Where Organs are concerned its a question of priorities. One has to take into account the cost involved and if it is going to be possible to raise and amount like 200.000 St georges is no longer a rich Parish and theres just isnt that many Church Goers on the electoral role there. To make matters worst there is St Augustines Church where Roy Massey was Organist . Also in need of a major rebuild at some considerable expense. I dont know why the Church has opted for digital this is just taking the easy way out. I don't see why the Church does not obtain 5 different quotes which they have to do if they want to get help from the Lottery . Or have the work done in stages. In St Georges case it would be the soundboards and actions windchests which require attention. The Console was refurbished at some considerable expense some years ago. That was a waste of time as the actions then were in a poor state. In aadition to this a great big 32 Contra Trombone was put on by the previous Director of Music which wasnt really neccesary for a building the size of St Georges. My advice get a professional fund raising expert in to exhaust all ways of raising the require funds to save this fine Organ.

With regard to Lunch Time Organ Recitals at Cathedrals I can well relate to the writers feelings on courtesy and making u welcome to play there precious instruments. I have had some experience of playing at a few Cathedrals and in most cases I was made welcome considering I am not a brilliant performer. To be frank Cathedrals are busy places and Directors of Music and their Assistants rarely have the time to accomodate u in their hectic schedules. If by chance u do happen to get a lunchtime slot and they have taken the time to write to you then thats just luck I think. Ive always dreamed of playing the Organs of Westminster Abbey and the Willis in the R.C Cathedral but I know that wont happen as recitals are generally by invitation only. To be honest its not worh giving a recital if the fee is not of a substantial amount. In this country in any case recitals are very poorly attended. In fairness some places do get a good audiences but on the whole its normally a audience of around 25 - 50 people ! Usually theres a collection to of course help pay the expenses of putting on the recital. From my experience its is not a very big fee and its really only travelling expenses your getting. I know it might sound corny but the Organ scene can be quite bitchy as is the Choral scene. So dont be too disgusted if u felt u were treated unkindly by some Cathedral Organist and his assistant. They are probably still recovering from last night Choir rehearsal and another round of endless meetings with the Dean & Chapter !

The Arundel new specification is as follows Pedal - Swell Open Diapason (wood) 16 Open Diapason 8 Open Diapason (metal )16 Hohl Flute 8 Bourdon 16 Viola da gamba 8 Octave 8 Stopped Diapason 8 Flute 8 Octave 4 Fifteenth 4 Flute 4 Mixture (17-19-22) Fifteenth 4 Trombone 16 Mixture (15-19-22) Horn 8 new Oboe 8 Clarion 4 new Great - Choir Double diapason 16 Dulcianna 8 Open Diapason 8 Vox Angelica (TC ) 8 Cone gamba 8 Gedecket 8 Stopped Diapason 8 Suabe flute 4 octave 4 Harmonic flute 4 Wald Flute 4 Flageolet 2 Twelfth 2 2/3 Clarinet 8 Fifteenth 2 Solo Trumpet reconstructed Full Mixture (17-19-22 ) new Sharp Mixture (26-29) 2 rks Trumpet 8 1931 harmonic trebles removed Clarion 4 1931 harmonic trebles removed Usual couplers but with the addition of six generals and a setter board hidden under the Console in a drawer. apologies for the layout on here but to simplified things pedal stops is the ones on left of this and great choir and swell to the right of the columns.

As A matter of fact yes I went to hear James O Donnell give the opening recital . It was a long night for me as I came down From Brum and went back the same night as I had 2 High Masses to contend with being the feast of Pentecost. The recital went well considering this Organ has only 39 stops ! There is virtually no mutations on this instrument there was some wonderful moments in the Alain Fantasie and the L Ascension Messiaen. However, several of us being Organists did have reservations about the lack of wind on Full Organ and also the fact the Organ is tuned Sharp. The addition of the Solo Trumpet certainly packs some punch to the instrument and actually the overall sound is very subtle and not forced even with the full organ. James is a very gifted player and the encore carrillon de westminster said it all and crowned a truly wonderful evening.

Well theres nothing sbout it as yet on the manders website. Perhaps they are still in discussion over it. As I understood it it was gong to take 2 yrs to fully refurbish the instrument.

Well if the glove fits then keep you post. I would think a lot of us agree why do we stay where we are or do what we do. It has to be for sheer love it and dedication. I ve been in my present post nealry 20 years. And although exhausting at times I do it because I love the Church where I am at and Organ. So I would think that might be some reason why some of the Cathedral Organists stay for so many years. Didnt Dr Roy Massey serve the longest or I am mistaken ?

For those of u wanting tro know the new spec of this Organ at Arundel. Contact David Wells Organ Builders or the NPOR site.

I have just had details from David Well's Organ Builders of the new Specification of the recent rebuild at Arundel R.C Cathedral. To be honest it is not that much different to the exsisting spec. The only extras is a Solo Trumpet which lies horizontially and extra stop in the Pedal and the additon of chorus reeds on the Swell. It just seems to me that the instrument has no real guts to it ! I.E no 16 reed on the swell which has been removed Contra Oboe use to be there ! And the opportunity has been lost to add a 32. Thy could of easily quinted the Bass Bourdon unit for and acoustic 9 notes ! i wonder if any other Organist's are familiar with this instrument ?

Oooh I didn't realise my posting on this subject had open up a can of worms ! It's been refeshing reading through some of the evidence. At least we have move away from the Bach Style of the 60's. In My Novello Edition the preface clearly states that no attempt should be made at bringing out the Fugue Subject. As Kevin Bowyer eminent organist once told me 'How do you like Bach Played ? Romantic as in Wilis Style or Baroque registration ? Yes they are probably players that play Bach in a different way. But the whole point of this discussion is to get you to think about is there any valid reason for doing something when it is not ask for ? Any performance should focus on comunicating clear articulation and clarity in your playing. Not and excuse to draw every stop or change of manual to murder a piece. I think of the late Virgil Fox who's Bach playing was said to be complety ear shattering at times !

Yes I am specifically reffering to the change of manuals in the Prelude. Some of you I see think that it would be boring if you didn't do this. My argument is that continuity and clarity is lost by such a change of direction. You have a similar problem in the St anne Prelude & Fugue . The average english Organ which may just be two or three manuals does not always have the right stops of equal power to give justice to this piece. My own organ which is a two manual with 30 stops does not have a choir. So how could I possibly play the second part of the Fugue on the Swell when really it's meant to be the positiv division of brightly coloured stops ? The balance is not right as is the case in organs that don't have a secondary Great division as is really asked for in the three sections of the Fugue. So you really have to trust your ears as stops with names do not always produce the desire effect as every organ has it's idiosyncracies. Maybe what the issue is here is the extent to how far one's performance faithfully reproduces what the composers intends ?

Imagine this scenario. I want u to imagine u are attending a Organ Recital which I do quite a lot. The Bach great B Minor Prelude & Fugue is been played BWV 544 . The player quite rightly commences on the Great for the prelude but then to my horror does something it seems very common amongst Organist 's ! He changes direction in the rapid demi-semi quaver passages Why ? No where in any score I have purchased does it say that this has to happen. Dosen't neccesarily make it historically correct. So the only reason why I think certain players do this is only other then for contrast. If you begin something on a typical Bach Registration then why change direction half way through the performance ? This alters the listeners perception of what you are trying to communicate to them in the performance. The same argument could be apply to the Fugue which I have heard played on some really riddiculous registrations ! Another vexed question I have is the use of the Swell Pedal in Mendelssohn. No where in any of his scores does he indicate something to be swelled at. Yet I have heard Orgainst's using it in the slow movement of Sonata no. 5 Why ? Where did this style of Organ playing come from or is this something new ? So please fellow Organist's any thoughts on this topic ?

Thats nothing. this one wil make u laugh . I have had a few nasty familes in. On this particular occasion there were two familes that didn't get on and were sneering and hissing at each other all the way during the service. Well I am just about to play Jerusalem when one of the next of kin gets ups and shouts ! Maureen your nothing but a f.... what not ! well all hell broke lose and I had to take for cover as they start fighting hymn books thrown about . It was like something out of East enders ! You couldnt help but laugh at these pathetic people who had no respect for where they were.

I must correct Nick Tanner who stated Julie Tanner was in charge at Leeds R.C Cathedral. It is in fact Ben Saunders who Directs the Music and Julie is the one of the Organist's that accompanies. On the topic of Female Organist 's or are u specifically refferring to Directors's ? Well Elizabeth Stratford is Director of music at Arundel R.C Cathedral. Also, Louise who was Organ Scholar at Westminster Abbey some years ago is Assistant Director of music At Wakefield. Then theres Katherine Dienes no over at St Mary's Warwick formerly Assistant at Liverpool R.C Cathedral. So guys watch out !

I think you will find that it's the Council that allows tapes and Cds to be played during a service at the Crematorium. U are obliged to carry this out as part of the job. And you cannot refused either or you will find your name in the local papers and possibly dismissed. In my Job ive know the Funeral Director to come on the day and be handed CDs to be played in the service. What makes me laugh is not the job but just how disgusting mourners can be especially if there is a family rift I wont tell you what happen when I was organist of the day when two mistresses started a cat fight over there beloved. So yes it can have it's funny side !

Lucky u ! I earned 9.69 per service for providing Organ and playing the Tapes CDS in Birmingham Crematoria. In additon to this we have to operate the button for closing and lowering the Coffin on the Catafalque. So try doing that 12 times or 14 times in a day and you will soon see how repetitive this work is. Ive been working in this role for 8 years now. And we don't have proper contracts either we work on a self employed basis we are paid for the number of services we actually play for. So therefore if theres only one serevice for the whole day which does happen in the quieter months then thats the fee. THere are 5 Organists for the Three Crematoria in Birmingham and we are all paid on this same basis. We cannot charge our own fees as the Council is paying us the rate which has been calculated from other Councils up and down the Country. In some Crematoriums a Organist is not employed. In fact some Councils used tape music or a Computer system as used at West London Crematorium. Here the Attendant is expected to select all the Music requested including Hymns and then play them in the correct order for those Mourners attending the said Service. So u see the job itself is not that straight forward. Are hands are tied as the Council basically has this policy of best value and at the same time a high standard of service to the bereaved. It's disgusting when you consider that the 5 of us are professional Organist's and some of us have Degrees. We cannot ask for the ISM rate which is a lot more for more then 6 services. My advice to anyone thinking of doing this work. Think again theres no rich pickings to be gained you stand a better chance of getting your own fees if you do enough Church Funerals which I also have to do when I am not on rota to play at the Crem.

It's been amusing reading some of these postings as to what one plays at Weddings. Personally I don't think it will make a blind bit of different simply because of this problem of rowdy Wedding parties. You can't beat a bit of Rheinberger , Vierne and Bach. The trick is to play something loud to start with if there particularly noisy and then come down to something quiet like some of the Henry Smart's Andantes simply gorgeous in a glorious Anglo Catholic Church with a big Acoustic ! If they are evil Wedding party and just extremy rude and vulgar. Then play some evil music by Langlais or big Chords reminiscent of Reger ! They soon get the message ! And if that dosen't work coupled up the Tubas or Chamades with Octaves for the Hymns they will be begging for mercy by the time the Wedding Service is over. With gasps of cursing from those dears oooh that Organist was too loud !

Never mind the Chamades being less effective then they use to be. Get something done with the stiff and clumsy operation of the stop action. Many friends of mine have commented on how awkward the stop action is and in particular to the delay of stops coming on when brought into use. The same might be said of the key actions. I don't know why this Organ is like this as if u compared the mander at Chelmsford Cathedral the action is light even with all four keyboards coupled up. Any one else share similar views I would be interested to hear.

Howells Organ music is incredibly awkward to register if you don't have the resources of a large instrument at your disposal. For me I just glory at the lush diapasons and Full Swell chorus of St Paul's Cathedral . Many of you might have the recordings of Dearnley playing the Psalm preludes and Rhapsodies and they are joy to play in your home volume turn up on the hi-fi to appreciate the sounds of st pauls. I must admit i am not keen on playing his music which i fnd difficult to play. Some of the shorter works are a delight like the Master Tallis Testament and sine nomine. Without a doubt I still think the best organ for me is a Willis.

Well that's no surprise CD's not playing . Being a Crematorium Orgainst we get a lot of CDs. The ones to watch out for and in any case should not be accepted are the ones made as copies form the original which may not be compatible with the equipment being used. I have been known to come out to mourners off the Organ and tell them in a exasperated voice. SORRY YOUR CD DOES NOT WORK ! Other major disasters for me have been a ORGAN BLOWER NOT WORKING AT THE START OF A Wedding. And being handed a mini Casio Keyboard to play the Widor's Toccata on which I refuse to do. Not being able to get into the Organ Loft because some idiot had the locks changed and is on holiday so the alternative was to climb up a ladder and risk breaking my neck to be at those ivory keys. Weddings do have there funny side. I play for a Couple on what was the Hottest afternoon in the year. And just as the Priest was about to marry them the bride's dress top part comes off needless to say the congregation were in fits of hysterics I Resisted the temptation to look beyond my mirror in case I lost concentration.

I hold the post as both Church Organist and Chapel organist to a large Crematorium in Birmingham. So I do a a lot of playing for services. One of my pet hates is when the mourners don't sing the hymns whilst your doing all the hard work. So what do you do in that situation especially when you have C & A 9 times in a day ? The answer is to put the organ on auto pilot if you have one or play the bloody hymns faster. You might even get a cup of tea in if your lucky. As Xmas was on a Sunday mercifully It was just two Services So I had more time to spend with my Family. On the pay of Crematorium Organist's I think it's disgusting that Councils won't pay the ISM rates ! We all work hard considering the job is repetitive and in a insenstive environment. I am paid less then £10.00 per service for my job. Some Councils are even paying less then that ! I wish something could be done but I don't know how we can take on these Zealots !