Jonathan Thorne

Has anyone tried the Ben Van Oosten recording from the Birmingham Town Hall? It's fantastic.

I agree with the comments about seeing new organs like Worcester etc. I also agree about Nigel's enthusiasm and also his common sense. However I am not happy in the way Mander Organs have treated this posting. It seems that the initial posting was so powerful that it caused offence to Mander Organs and how does one know what the person said when the post has been deleted? That seems rather unfair to me. I've read over and over again the guidelines of the Mander forum and I can not see why they would just willy nilly delete a post without justification. There is a sentence saying "The messages express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of this bulletin board. Any user who feels that a posted message is objectionable is encouraged to contact us immediately by email. We have the ability to remove objectionable messages and we will make every effort to do so, within a reasonable time frame, if we determine that removal is necessary". So who was the person who found it necessary to delete this post? It goes on to say that " We have the ability to remove objectionable messages and we will make every effort to do so", but it does not say that it has a legal right! The "guidelines" also go on to say "This discussion forum is to be used only for non-commercial purposes. Participants may not solicit funds, promote commercial entities or otherwise engage in commercial activity in the forum." Well what about Worcester Cathedral, Youtube films and the latest one "Classic FM Hall of Fame, Your chance to show that the organ really matters - There's plenty of organ music on the list at http://www.classicfmhalloffame.co.uk/#votingForm and what better way to get ourselves and the organ heard."! (apologies to Nick Bennett for use of his link!) Oh and another one "Recitals, Alert your fellow organists!". All these are in breach of the above clause, but have Mander organs deleted them ? Of course not! Next one is this :- Forum Misuse Policy: * 1st Offence A polite Private Message from a Moderator pointing out the Forum Rules, in addition to the editing or deletion of the post * 2nd Offence Public warning on the message board plus deletion of post * 3rd Offence Moderators will delete the user from the Mander Organs forum, Depending on the situation, Moderators may bypass any and all of these steps and take whatever action is deemed appropriate. I have to ask this did the person in question receive a polite message or did Mander Organs just jump to No.2 and publicly humiliate the said person? They seem to be contradicting their own clauses. I'm sorry to have ignited in this field but I have found that no matter how against the guidelines one might be it is of the mood of the Mander forum if such a person should be deleted or not. Are Mander organs really being fair? p.s I'm copying this just in case it gets deleted!!

I've just been looking through the NPOR and have found a particular Cathedral Organ or merit which has had some major re-workings over it's life and has been awarded an Historic Organ Certificate surveyed in 2002 under the BIOS The Historic Organ Certificate Scheme. How is this justified and is it fair?

Isn't there however a distinct difference between a Cremona and a Clarinet stop in it's construction? I know there are variants on the Spelling of Cremona from country to country but my understanding is that the Cremona or Cromorne is open at the top same scale roughly and a short taper at the base of the resonator, compared to a clarinet or any other name which is capped and slotted at the top narrower in scale and having a longer taper at the base of the resonator. The best form of this family I have found is 1. France - Poitiers Cathedral - the Cromorne 8ft on the positive and 2. UK - St. Pauls Cathedral Corno di Bassetto 8ft on the Solo.

Did anyone read my last post? The IBO bless them are ok in that they encourage members on training courses which is great and they have in their journal a compiled list of people who have been accredited for a particular type of work, ie. New organs; Tuning ; Historic Restoration - in fact according to the 2004 IBO Journal there are six categories in which the firms who have passed a visual and aural assessment of their work have been entered. They also give maps showing where these people are located, how many people are working for them, examples of their work sampled and membership offers. To me this sounds like a well organised institution. However I do have problems with (and has already been described above) certain organ advisors only choosing from this list. I don't think it's fair when having been told in the past by the IBO of three very highly regarded organ builders that unless they join the IBO they will never get any work. I hope this is no longer the case as an intention as clearly the three companies I have in mind are actually producing an outstanding quality of workmanship and consistency and are extremely busy, maybe more so than some of the bigger accredited organ builders who for some like to think they invented the instrument! I don't know how exactly the inspections are carried out but I am really left ashamed when hearing a really out of tune organ from a top class accredited member of the IBO and also from some who are falsely advertising a job still in their care!

I've just had the same experience and also realising there would be no point on looking at the NPOR!

Yes - tracker all the way.

This smells like an IBO advert dedicated to those accredited and very professional organbuilders, but I hope it's also an advert that has gone beyond the inner ivory frames of the IBO and has found it's way in the wider circle and to those other organbuilders equally as busy and perfessoinal. It seems like it's come from a company in need for a jack of all trade, so maybe a well known smaller company. How old is the advert? I was surprised why in any UK organ building advert why they seek someone with a degree, when most English organ builders are don't like university people (I've had this rudeness put upon me maybe in fear or their insecurity that I might take their job) or they are so skilled anyway they could have Dr's and Prof's after their names! - I mean organ builders not the managing directors! The wage actually seems higher than I expected so it can't be a London firm can it? I can think of a few companies but I think I wouldn't be allowed to name them on this 'sensitive' website. I won't sleep now though - got to find out........zzzzzzzzzzzz.

I've only listened to 47 minutes of it and already I am horrified. It is clear that Graeme Kay is not thinking about the recordings e.g. action noise etc. I have the S Landale set and the Librun but I personally prefer the Landale, but I have also found merits in the Librun set. Has Graeme Kay actually recorded himself the complete works on organ on a Cavaillé-Coll? I though his presentation was patronising and reflects badly on the BBC - sorry guys.

Ok - thanks for the clarification. I did witness though at Rieger that everything was made there from shallots, squares, drawstop heads and now I think they may be making their own drawstop solenoids and Solid State system previously bought from AJ Taylor, not to mention reusing off cuts of wood for their heating system! On another note thanks DW for putting some excellent pictures up on your website of your latest adventures! The work looks fantastic! Best wishes JT

I fully agree. I've played, heard in the building, been inside including the Apse and heard four fantastic recordings of the Milton organ - it kind of helps a bit when you know the organ tuner!! 1. I can also think of top UK firms who have produced less successful "musical" instruments. I do remember the Milton being a little on the tight inside, but I'm a tall person anyway. 2. Stinkens pipes have been used very much by Nicholsons in the 60's and 70's and there are some fantastic independent pipe makers now in the UK. However I don't agree 100% about the "cost of new instruments if every organbuilder of every size is expected to train and retain a team of pipemakers". It was once the norm in the UK for everything to me made in house. They certainly do it in Germany, Switzerland and Austria. 3. Nobody has mentioned the little Elliot organ that has just recently been restored. I helped out a bit with that. I think it lives on the south side behind the Milton organ. 4. I urge people to obtain recordings of the Abbey organs from Priory, Regent, Hyperion, VIF and Cantoris Records - if that recording is still around! JT

I don't play the piece myself as there are 7 other Sonatas to choose from but what I would say is be careful to get the correct edition - there have been many other interpretations of Guilmant's work which are not always accurate. I have more info if you are interested....

Parade for Saint Peter Johnson Manning Fancy Byrd Paduana Lachrimae collorirt Sweelinck Fantasia & Fugue in G minor, BWV 542 Bach Voluntary in G Walond Sonata in F minor, Op. 65, No. 1Mendelssohn Adagio in E Bridge Caprice in B flat major, Op. 20, No. 3 Guilmant Carillon de Westminster Vierne Try going to http://www.regent-records.co.uk for more deatils.

Ha Ha but they are not as over the top on health and safety as we are in the UK!....

Mander Organs and others may be interested no learn of a new release by Regent Records of the recent Mander organ of St Peter's Church, St Louis, Missouri. I'ts great and shows some wonderful colours. I'm listening to now! All best J

Was it a pedal action you were looking at? By changing the hole would effect the ratio and as you said change the leverage.

Not sure but the organist on the picture to the right of it looks familiar....

Yea it looks like so, but lets hope it all turns out well. I certainly have not seen any advertisement on the Klais website saying they are providing a new organ for Leeds.

Any more news on Leeds?

If I'd won the lottery I would do the following: 1. Donate to the British Heart Foundation 2. Donate to the Liverpool Cathedral organ fund 3. Get St Georgy Hall done too! 4. Set up a new and hopefully better British Organbuilding Institute that is geared to encourage younger members to join and partake in events FREE OF CHARGE until the age of 30. I would also encourage those firms who qualify as members to support and make available various courses in carpentry, electrician work and marketing and any other aspect of the Organbuilding trade. The institute would also allow funding for trainee organ builders to be paid a decent wage (I wasn't) and extra funding to travel in order to experience different cultures in organbuilding - have many of us has stepped inside a Cavaillé-Coll? As a result of this it would secure the future of organbuilding in the British Isles in the way in which we can be equally compared to the rest of Europe and the USA. 5. If I have enough left over I might get myself a pint of Real Ale - www.camra.org.uk for those who are interested!

Have you tried this? http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/al.asp?al=CDA66843

"Dulciana 8' (the slightly stringy model)" Hmm how big will the stop heads be? I don't think one could fit all that on!.. Only joking, it looks like a good array of colours but I hope the pipework will be off decent scale and not the harshness we sometimes find in modern reeds.

Looks fantastic!

Well certainly at St. Chad's in Birmingham it's even possible to lead a full nave congregation of just the positive 8,4 flutes!

I welcome the idea of an American organ as it will be a breath of fresh air to the English organ world.