JohnR

Thanks Tony. Updated info was sent to the NPOR by me some time back. They updated the survey and introduced one for Sewerby church. For some reason they left some things in that we now know to be incorrect. Also, they won't mention the earlier builder history under Eriswell because it's under Sewerby. I presume they use the same rules for other instruments that have had more than one home. It was apparantly BB Edmonds who mentioned it possibly being in York Minster Choir School. It would be interesting to see what his notes actually say. The Westgate organ looks interesting although it's a shame it doesn't get played. Regards, John

Thank you gentlemen for both your replies. I shall certainly contact David Wood about this. I don't have his contact details but presume I'll track them down via Google. Yes Jonathan, Eriswell is near Elveden. It's a small world - I'm one of the Elveden organists! Your point about the organ near you is interesting Tony, I think I spotted it on the NPOR site. Do you know the year of that one or at least if it was pre 1880? Tony, you mentioned a possible Brindley & Foster connection for Eriswell. This is certainly correct because we now know for certain that Brindley & Foster sold it to Sewerby Church near Bridlington around 1895. This is mentioned in an old edition of The Organ and also A R Knott's book about B & F. However these sources assumed it to be a new B & F organ in 1895. We now know it obviously wasn't new although perhaps B & F sold it as 'new'. The most puzzling this is that there used to be a NPOR mention of the organ being originally made for York Minster Choir School! Best Regards, John

Does anyone on this forum know if James Binns made any instruments bearing his name before he started his own firm in 1880? I know he was an apprentice at Radcliffe & Sagar till 1873 and then worked for Isaac Abbott (pre Abbott & Smith) from 1873 until 1880. The reason I ask is that the organ at Eriswell Parish Church in Suffolk (recently rebuilt and rebuilt several times before) has 'James J Binns Leeds May 73 (1873)' written in pencil in two places. One of these is on the inside of the original upper rear Swell box casing. His name is about 2 feet wide so he obviously wanted people to know about him! I don't know if Binns displayed his name like this when working for either of the above firms or if this organ was possibly an early attempt of his own (presumably using quite a few ready made parts although the pipes are marked with his writing). The date of May 1873 is interesting as it's the year he changed jobs, but I don't know exactly when in the year he moved (and don't seem to be able to find out). All the pipe names are also in his writing and one of these also bears his name. The orginal part of this organ does have a slightly primative nature such as a couple of suprising bottom octave omissions. The Swell and Pedal Bourdons use identical pipes and the reservoir is single rise. It would be worth me looking at Radcliffe & Sagar and Isaac Abbott organs of the same period to look for any clues. Thanks, John R

I once played for four carol services in one day, all at different churches in Suffolk. Can anyone beat that? I don't think I'd want to do it again. I think I was suffering from a mild dose of insanity at the time. John R

I tend to think that couples are sometimes keen to bring their own organist because they assume their 'friend' will be better than whoever the churches own organist is. This is more likely to be the case in country areas where none of us can be sure of the organists abilities if we don't know the church. A wedding couple therefore certainly can't be expected to have much idea either. A visiting organist once struggled badly with the organ at my local church. They hadn't played a pipe organ much before and had to cope in this case with a detached console connected with pnuematic action, keys that don't always return and a tired pedal action that occassionally requires a swift visit into the organ chamber to put a piece of paper under a pipe foot! They must have felt it was like sailing the QE2 with no steering. I did get a message to them to warn them about the organ. But I did this out of courtesy, not in a vain attempt to put them right off. John R

Can't remove!

Thank you for your thought provoking ideas, which I can now use to upgrade our commercial product line before anyone else could have time to develop one from scratch. I'm being cynical of course and I must also be careful not to advertise on the one hand or give our own ideas away on the other. The component type you've spotted certainly has a very good set of credentials and looks like a fine product. This type of device will inevitably come into use more in all types of control equpment (including industrial). As far as cost saving in organ control equipment is concerned I think this would be minimal because the processing constitues only a tiny proporiton of the total cost. There is still the input and output porting and driving electronics to consider (of which there is a large amount required on large organs), racking and connectivity. You mention computer connectivity, but most control systems can already be customised using a PC or laptop. Some of the other ideas you mention to be possible with this device are already possible with existing commercial equipment. Some systems already have a simple interconnection arrangment for the various card types. Our product also has the ability to have any outboard output driving cards connected to one common pair of wires (not using MIDI but something much faster). As for using a cheapish box and cheapish PCBs, organbuilders like to think that control systems are not made from anything cheapish. They should be solid and rugged like the organs they're used in. PCBs should certainly be fibreglass industrial grade rather than 'biscuit' boards like the ones used in domestic electronics and connectivity needs to be of the highest quality otherwise this aspect will fail first. I've met several people who've come up with various ideas regarding organ control systems based around this or that newly developed processor but have struggled to get such an idea working well and have found it much more difficult than they anticipated. If you feel you could design a system based around such a device then please go ahead, I honestly wish you all the best. Best Regards, John R

I remember you Ray as I worked there during part of the 80s as a radio engineer. I'm not sure who the other person is. I was aware of plenty of Hammond organs at MV but don't think I ever knew about any Compton electronic organs there. My own company installed an electronic link for the Compton pipe organ console a few years ago. I'll have a look at links you've both put up.

Yes, a small world indeed Peter. I've just been looking on the NPOR site and see there's a new organ there now (St. Peter's. Cardiff). What happened to the other one? I seem to remember the old console on the balcony wasn't wired or was only partly wired? I haven't worked for SSL for a while now by the way. John R

I'm sure that's the church where I went to get a newly installed SSL system working properly in the early 1990s. I feel sure the organist was called Peter, was that you? I remember the organ being on the North and South walls of the tower above the balcony. John R

This sounds like a good book. How can I obtain a copy please? John R

Yes it's a late Compton instrument. I had the pleasure of playing it a few months ago when John & Eric Shepherd were given the job of looking after it. Some of the pipework was found to have been on far too low a pressure and this has been corrected. John R

I've now seen more of the DVD (not all, it is three hours long!). Anyone who enjoys being slighly' freaked out' should consider Artemis.8.1 if anyone asks them what they'd like for Xmas, even if just to watch the sections featuring pipe organs. The Brahms A flat minor fugue will never take on the same meaning again! Even just thinking about that fugue over the years has often reminded me of my first viewing of this BBC programme in 1981 probably because I was just getting to know that fugue around that time. It is thanks to an earlier post on this thread (and it's availability on DVD) that I got to see this programme again. John R

Following my post above in reply to a post about the 1981 BBC programme Artemis 8 1, I decided to buy this apprantly cult but never repeated programme on DVD. I've just played part of it and it is indeed the one I remember. I've amazed myself with how much detail I remembered about the first organ scene. The DVD has an optional commentry by the writer and (I think) the producer or director plus a film expert. One of the commentators actually states that the earlier organ (obviously a four manual a Willis) is that of the Great Hall of Birmingham university. We see the console and hear the organ although the film is cleverly done to make it seem as if the console is behind a red cutain under the tower in a village church. The church is somewhere near Southwold in Suffolk but has a fictional name in the film. The second location where we see and hear an organ is Southwell Minster. The detached tab console is played. One commentator on the DVD says the organist who actually performed the music and is also seen playing live at Southall in the long shots (& wearing a wig) is Peter Dickenson. The final item is a piece by Gordon Crosse based on a twelve note theme provided by the writer. The theme is a distortion of the Brahms Ab minor fugue heard on the earlier organ above. John R

It's a shame if the electronic tones can't be master tuned. That would help a great deal. I sometimes play an organ that uses a couple of MIDI stops to play an electronic reed (a good one). The electronic unit is tuneable and it's pitch indicator really emphasis just how much the pitch of the organ fluework changes throughout the year. John R

The important thing with a flue type organ pipe is that the pipe specifically determines the wavelength of the note, not the frequency. The frequency also depends on the speed of sound in air. This is because the speed of sound in air determines the speed of travel of the pressure wave along the pipe. This in turn determines the number of oscillations of the pressure wave per unit time i.e. the frequency of the note. John R

The TV Drama you mention may be the same one I often remember, but possibly not. I vividly remember a drama which included quite a lot of organ music and there was a huge organ console (but I think no pipes were ever seen) at the back of a fairly small church. It was utterly surreal and I'm sure the console certainly didn't belong to the church's own organ. The organist was very stereotypical and quite 'mad professor' with longish hair. Another thing I remember was the lead pattern changing in the windows. I hadn't been playing the organ long at the time, this drama was almost enough to frighten me away from the instrument! On a different note (excuse pun) I remember seening a Mander Denham organ with it's characteristic case on a film some time ago. I think it was a 70s comedy, possibly a Carry On but that sort of style. John R

Codsall High School (as it was known) in Staffordshire used to have a pipe organ in the main hall between about 1966 and 1983. I never knew the original builder but W. H. Laycock rebuilt it in about 1921. It came from Wombourne Methodist church and was moved and installed in the school in an understandably amateur fashion by the school. I was at the school while the organ was there and was later allowed to do some remedial repairs on it. The pedal bourdon didn't seem right when I first went to the school and I discovered the pipes had the pneumatic tubing connected in pipe position order, which because they were split semitonally created an interesting effect! Fortunately I found this easy to put right. The organ was removed and sadly detroyed after a possible plan to move it to a church didn't work out. John R

Yes, the two effects we heard were one of the Great Open Diapasons by itself (very nice and one of the three oldest ranks) and more or less full organ but nothing inbetween. The interviewer seeed to think every last stop needed to be out for a full organ sound but the organist didn't point out that it's pointless including quiet ranks to the full organ effect. To be fair it's not easy being interviewed at the best of times! John R

When is the case being added? Seriously though, I'm surprised they were allowed to have it looking like that. St. Edmundsbury Cathedral organ hasn't had a west facing case since it was rebuilt in 1970. All that's on show is part of the frame, truncking and the Trompetta Real (the pipes of which were obviously not intended to be on show). John R

Ha ha ha ha, well that's different. I feel tempted to go along with a hedge trimmer and cut the seven centre pipes down to meet the others. I guess the bottom end of the Great Open Diapason may be affected somewhat. John R

Yes the problem is all to do with the way the signal is treated before it's sent to some of the output feeds. The 'Optimod' system is a paricular type of level compression system that has been in use since the 80s when when I was a BBC engineer (I didnt' like Optimod, I hasten to add!). It quickly became popular among independant broadcasters before the BBC used it. The BBC decided to start using Optimod when they realised that pop chart material on a certain commercial station sounded more effective on a portable radio than the same material received from Radio 1 on the same radio. I seem to remember that the Radio 3 FM feed didn't go through the optimod system at that time although the other FM feeds did. The AM feeds had an even higher level of treatment (all networks were also broadcast on AM at that time). The problem with non pop music content is that any but the slightest compression is potentially ruinous. The overall amount of compression is the problem rather than the 'optimod' system particularly. As the thread starter has already said it is frustrating at the climax of a piece of music when it sounds as though the volume is being turned down especially as more notes and perhaps other sounds come into play. A significant related factor is that the gain reduction is not instantaeous but relatively slow (by design). This means that sudden loud sounds can go through without being affected (such as a drum) but a sustained louder sound gets pulled back about a fraction of a second, never to return to its original level. John R

Yes I heard that. It's a pity it was so brief although the programme's only half an hour and there's a fair bit to squeeze in. John R

I have a Zoom H2 for occassional use when my other equipment would be unneccessary. It is a fine unit for the price. The microphones are decent but not generally as good as quality external mics. There is an external mic input but only in the form of a stereo 3.5mm socket. If you can afford paying a bit more the H4 is wellworth looking at. This has balanced combined XLR and jack mic inputs. Both units feature optional level limiting and compression on manual level recording and can record in various WAV and MP3 formats. Wav 44.1 Kbits/sec format will transfer directly to CD. John R

Well, seemingly incoherent general piston settings may well have been set up for particular pices of music. However, I feel memory level 1 on both generals and divisionals should be set up in a way that wouldn't take anyone by surprise, and ideally with an even graduation of volume from one piston to the next. Thankfully, many instruments are set up this way. John R