Worcester Cathedral

[AJJ]

And so the organ emerges from the scaffolding at last. Check out these latest pictures of the new organ....

 

A

 

............and if it 'fits' as tonally as it does architecturally then we are in for a real treat.

 

AJJ

[pcnd5584]

Adrian, I would like to add my thanks for the superb photographs which you have chosen to share with us.

 

The new organ looks absolutely stunning - a veritable jewel. I see what you mean with regard to the texture of the cases; the profile is far better than I had imagined.

[Vox Humana]

Stunning is the word. If it sounds as good as it looks...!

 

If you don't mind me asking, Adrian, what lenses did you use on your Digital Rebel?

[Guest Roffensis]

And so the organ emerges from the scaffolding at last. Check out these latest pictures of the new organ....

 

A

 

 

Well! Wow!! It looks very, very impressive indeed. Really a very fine looking instrument! Looking forward to hearing it.

 

R

[bwv572]

I popped into the Cathedral yesterday morning and managed to hear it briefly. The foundations sound really fine and penetrate well into the Nave.

[Lucasorg]

If you don't mind me asking, Adrian, what lenses did you use on your Digital Rebel?

It came with a standard Canon 18-55 Zoom, then I added another Canon 75-300 Zoom. Then I reached last week and realised that, with a slightly wider lens, I could get a better shot of one case from inside the other....so I went out and bought a Tokina 10-20 Zoom and one or two of the most recent shots are with that! Haven't got back inside to take the shot I'm after yet though....

 

A

[Lucasorg]

I popped into the Cathedral yesterday morning and managed to hear it briefly. The foundations sound really fine and penetrate well into the Nave.

Yes, we're really pleased at how well the sound gets down the nave. The Great and Pedal are in a particularly good position for this. Also, since the scaffolding has been half down, the boxes are all shut so we're looking forward to the "unleashed" sound when we've got them open!

 

A

[nfortin]

I made the short trip up to Worcester this afternoon, the dual temptations of getting a look at the organ with the scaffolding down plus Howells Worcester Service at evensong were too much to resist. By good fortune I arrived at a time when Adrian and his assistant Christopher were just tidying up after a concert in the nave and took the liberty of introducing myself to Adrian. I was met with great kindness, Adrian asked Christopher to show me the organ, which I was certainly not expecting, so was treated to a demonstration from the console and even got to play a few notes myself.

 

As Adrian has commented, the expression pedals are not currently functional with the boxes closed, and there is some tuning and finishing yet needed on the swell.

 

I'm pleased to say that my impressions are that my worries about the choice of builder, based solely on my experience of the organ in Sherborne Abbey which is not too my personal tastes, seem likely to prove unfounded. The flutes on this organ are exquisite and the great fonds are really quite mild and civilised with a very good blend. The solo oboe, clarinet and cor anglais are all very pleasant, Worcester will have a genuine 4-manual organ, whereas (even die-hard fans of the old machine like me would have to admit) the previous organ was really only a 3-manual. Its interesting the extent to which Christopher already talks with some passion about the new instrument, and he was very keen to make the point that they strongly wished to avoid the excesses of the past (high pitched mixtures of no use for accompanying etc.) and to have a real, English cathedral organ. I think they will have, although I'm not sure that the swell, which apparently in the old organ was too loud for accompanying the choir, will be significantly quieter than before. Having heard the wonderful colours that Christopher coaxed out of the Father Rogers, both in the psalm and in the Howells this afternoon, I'm sure that in his hands the new organ will prove fully suited to its task.

 

Now can we have one in Gloucester please?

[Lucasorg]

I made the short trip up to Worcester this afternoon, the dual temptations of getting a look at the organ with the scaffolding down plus Howells Worcester Service at evensong were too much to resist.

I thought we sang the Gloucester Service....???!!!!

 

A

[nfortin]

I thought we sang the Gloucester Service....???!!!!

 

A

Oh dear, wrong again! That explains it, I didn't think I'd ever played the Worcester service and yet I recognised the piece as one I had played (and quite recently too). Old age creeping up ever faster I suppose.

 

Anyway, although evensong in the nave lacks the intimacy and atmosphere of the quire it was most enjoyable and of a very high standard. I particularly enjoyed the Rose responses, even with the slip (actually the most enjoyable thing of all) by the cantor!

[Guest Roffensis]

I made the short trip up to Worcester this afternoon, the dual temptations of getting a look at the organ with the scaffolding down plus Howells Worcester Service at evensong were too much to resist. By good fortune I arrived at a time when Adrian and his assistant Christopher were just tidying up after a concert in the nave and took the liberty of introducing myself to Adrian. I was met with great kindness, Adrian asked Christopher to show me the organ, which I was certainly not expecting, so was treated to a demonstration from the console and even got to play a few notes myself.

 

As Adrian has commented, the expression pedals are not currently functional with the boxes closed, and there is some tuning and finishing yet needed on the swell.

 

I'm pleased to say that my impressions are that my worries about the choice of builder, based solely on my experience of the organ in Sherborne Abbey which I still think is an abomination, seem likely to prove unfounded. The flutes on this organ are exquisite and the great fonds are really quite mild and civilised with a very good blend. The solo oboe, clarinet and cor anglais are all very pleasant, Worcester will have a genuine 4-manual organ, whereas (even die-hard fans of the old machine like me would have to admit) the previous organ was really only a 3-manual. Its interesting the extent to which Christopher already talks with some passion about the new instrument, and he was very keen to make the point that they strongly wished to avoid the excesses of the past (high pitched mixtures of no use for accompanying etc.) and to have a real, English cathedral organ. I think they will have, although I'm not sure that the swell, which apparently in the old organ was too loud for accompanying the choir, will be significantly quieter than before. Having heard the wonderful colours that Christopher coaxed out of the Father Rogers, both in the psalm and in the Howells this afternoon, I'm sure that in his hands the new organ will prove fully suited to its task.

 

Now can we have one in Gloucester please?

 

 

Delighted to hear about the Worcester job.

 

I personally don't miss old Gloucester, I much prefer the current.

 

I would miss a Hereford or a Canterbury.

 

R

[Vox Humana]

It came with a standard Canon 18-55 Zoom, then I added another Canon 75-300 Zoom. Then I reached last week and realised that, with a slightly wider lens, I could get a better shot of one case from inside the other....so I went out and bought a Tokina 10-20 Zoom and one or two of the most recent shots are with that! Haven't got back inside to take the shot I'm after yet though....

 

A

Thanks. Very impressive if I may say so, particularly the 18-55.

[nfortin]

Delighted to hear about the Worcester job.

 

I personally don't miss old Gloucester, I much prefer the current.

 

I would miss a Hereford or a Canterbury.

 

R

I don't miss the old organ either, I never heard it. I just don't much care for the new one. And based on my experience of the wonderful instruments at Salisbury, Hereford and Truro, would suspect that there would have been more of virtue in the old instrument that was at the very least worthy of retention. I also feel that, in view of the very high regard I have of the place of both Herberts Howells and Sumsion in the history of the anglican choral tradition in the twentieth century, that their views of the relative merits of the two instruments (ie. Gloucester before and after) should not easily be discounted.

 

The Gloucester organ, I may just possibly have let this subjective view slip out before, is remarkably unsuitable for the job of accompanying the english choral repertoire. In fact its bloody useless at it. Other recent instruments, which may be of great merit as recital instruments (you might think I'm talking about Bath Abbey but I couldn't possibly comment) pose significant challenges when it comes to sensitive accompaniment. (When you're only on swell 2 or swell 3 for the opening verse of the psalm and the conductor tells you its too loud you know you're up against it). I'm absolutely delighted to say that I don't think the new Worcester organ is going to have these failings. It would seem that those responsible for defining the requirements of this new instrument have, whatever their preference for soloist repertoire may be, not lost sight of the fact that its core function is to fulfil its liturgical role in an anglican cathedral. Not only that, but a cathedral in which the historical ties to some of this country's most significant composers clearly remain of importance and relevance to those directing its music today.

 

Halleuia!

[gazman]

When you're only on swell 2 or swell 3 for the opening verse of the psalm and the conductor tells you its too loud you know you're up against it.

 

Mind you, I had this problem a while back when I accompanied a quartet who were a guest choir singing Evensong at a Cathedral with a rather more "Romantic" instrument.

[Lucasorg]

It's lovely to hear so many positive comments about the new organ, especially when the removal of its predecessor caused so much angst. Let's not forget, however, that the voicing is still at an early stage at the moment and there is much to do (mostly at night) between now and the end of the month...!!

 

Here's to its completion!!

 

A

[hackej]

Adrian,

 

That instrument is absolutely beautiful. It really lifts the whole Quire area and complements the existing fittings very well. Compared to the stumpy cases of the old organ, it has presence, style and impact. I commend you and the cathedral on a fantastic piece of art.

 

What impact will the transept pedal stops have in the Quire? Will the 32's be audible up there? What was the effect in the old installation?

 

Best,

 

John

[Lucasorg]

Adrian,

 

That instrument is absolutely beautiful. It really lifts the whole Quire area and complements the existing fittings very well. Compared to the stumpy cases of the old organ, it has presence, style and impact. I commend you and the cathedral on a fantastic piece of art.

 

What impact will the transept pedal stops have in the Quire? Will the 32's be audible up there? What was the effect in the old installation?

Thanks, John. We like it a lot!

 

Regarding the Transept, the 32s always swept gracefully around the corner, gently shaking the floor. Unlike the 32 reed whose upper harmonics required location with the bulk of the organ to work well, these flues are much less critical. Ideally, one would have all the organ in one place, but we can live with this alternative, especially when there are precious few places in which 32' pipes can be located. There are also plenty of other precedents for this.....York, Salisbury, St Davids, Exeter, Norwich etc

 

A

[hackej]

Thanks, John. We like it a lot!

 

Regarding the Transept, the 32s always swept gracefully around the corner, gently shaking the floor. Unlike the 32 reed whose upper harmonics required location with the bulk of the organ to work well, these flues are much less critical. Ideally, one would have all the organ in one place, but we can live with this alternative, especially when there are precious few places in which 32' pipes can be located. There are also plenty of other precedents for this.....York, Salisbury, St Davids, Exeter, Norwich etc

 

A

 

Super - thanks Adrian. Do you have any photos of the old cases from behind - i.e. from the side aisles?

[Lucasorg]

Super - thanks Adrian. Do you have any photos of the old cases from behind - i.e. from the side aisles?

No, because they were so unspectacular!

 

A

[Guest Roffensis]

It's lovely to hear so many positive comments about the new organ, especially when the removal of its predecessor caused so much angst. Let's not forget, however, that the voicing is still at an early stage at the moment and there is much to do (mostly at night) between now and the end of the month...!!

 

Here's to its completion!!

 

A

Oh I'll nail myself firmly on this. I personally would have kept the old organ full stop. I would never have outed it. I would have enhanced it with some careful additions and a few subtractions, not least that useless "Solo" and hideous Orchestral Strumpet which I think was about the most crude thing ever I have heard!!.......utterly vile.

 

That said, and without wishing to harp on, good luck with the new job, I hope it serves all as well as anticipated. There is no point whatever in crying over what has been done, as it has been done. It's gone!! I will always miss that sound, and no organ will replace that, for me.

 

R

[contraviolone]

The Gloucester organ, I may just possibly have let this subjective view slip out before, is remarkably unsuitable for the job of accompanying the english choral repertoire. In fact its bloody useless at it. Other recent instruments, which may be of great merit as recital instruments (you might think I'm talking about Bath Abbey but I couldn't possibly comment) pose significant challenges when it comes to sensitive accompaniment.

 

Surely it depends on whether you wish to listen to the Organ (any Organ) as a recital instrument, or as an accompanymental aid to choral music? I am personally not interested in listening to the Organ in this latter context: I want to listen to the tremendous heritage of German and French Organ music composed specifically for the Organ. Why are we all wrapped up with the desire to compromise so many English organs with the near-impossible task of delivering a recital instrument AND a choral support mechanism at the same time? Is this the reason why so many superb and exciting instruments can be found in France and Germany? and conversely so many dreadfully bad, dull and completely confused organs can be found in England?

 

The Gloucester organ may not be ideal for the English choral tradition. It may not be quite like the 'real thing' to be found just a short trip across the Channel. But what it can do is to sound at times quite exciting, which is more than can be said for the vast majority of our Cathedral organs in England today.

[Pierre Lauwers]

"I am personally not interested in listening to the Organ in this latter context: I want to listen to the tremendous heritage of German and French Organ music composed specifically for the Organ. Why are we all wrapped up with the desire to compromise so many English organs with the near-impossible task of delivering a recital instrument AND a choral support mechanism at the same time? Is this the reason why so many superb and exciting instruments can be found in France and Germany? and conversely so many dreadfully bad, dull and completely confused organs can be found in England? "

(Quote)

 

Here we have a splendid summary of the "british patient" case.

 

Mark, be convinced of one thing: nobody on the continent believes "our" organs

to be "better" than the british ones.

Suffice to count the "poor little accompanimental things" we bought on E-Bay those

last years.

 

There obtains no hierarchy in Arts.

 

Pierre

[Ian Ball]

The Gloucester organ, I may just possibly have let this subjective view slip out before, is remarkably unsuitable for the job of accompanying the english choral repertoire. In fact its bloody useless at it.

Yes, that's pretty subjective! Many of us, who have grown to know and love the Gloster organ through daily use with a choir, would disagree.

 

IFB

[OmegaConsort]

Is this the reason why so many superb and exciting instruments can be found in France and Germany? and conversely so many dreadfully bad, dull and completely confused organs can be found in England?

 

The Gloucester organ may not be ideal for the English choral tradition. It may not be quite like the 'real thing' to be found just a short trip across the Channel. But what it can do is to sound at times quite exciting, which is more than can be said for the vast majority of our Cathedral organs in England today.

 

Perhaps we should also say that Germany and France do not have our choral heritage? I'd much rather have, as Mark says, some dreadfully bad, dull and completely confused organs (tho I would call the likes of Salisbury, Lincoln, Durham and many others quite the opposite) alongside our tradition of choral evensong and eucharists, than some wonderful recital instruments in our Cathedrals with woeful liturgy and congregational services!

 

Speaking generally, surely most of our Cathedral organs are very able to perform the dual role reasonably effectively? There aren't many that make a hash of one or the other (I do agree that Gloucester poses problems for evensong accompaniment, Llandaff was a disaster, and Christ Church Oxford is a touch limited), so overall, I'd rather have what we have than what Mark alludes to.

 

Richard

[pcnd5584]

... The Gloucester organ, I may just possibly have let this subjective view slip out before, is remarkably unsuitable for the job of accompanying the english choral repertoire. In fact its bloody useless at it.

 

Without wishing to cause Adrian's thread to take a turn into a cul-de-sac (and mindful of Ian Ball's authoratitive reply), I cannot let this pass.

 

It is no good approaching the Gloucester organ with the preconception that it has to sound like [insert name of favourite 'accompanimental' cathedral organ], or that it must be able to produce certain prescribed sounds, in order effectively to accompany Anglican choral music.

 

In the first place, there are comparatively few places in the repertoire of the Anglican choral tradition in which specific registrations are given by composers. Undoubtedly there has grown up a venerable tradition which uses such stock-in-trade as 'Swell to 2ft., with 16ft. reed', or a Clarinet solo, accompanied by 'Swell soft 8ft. stops'. However, these are not - arguably - the only such sounds (for example) which may be effective for a particular passage.

 

If one takes the trouble to get to know the Gloucester organ as a musical instrument, instead of expecting it to reproduce favourite registrations, it will reward the player in many ways. There are a number of quiet combinations available; yes, they are different - but nevertheless they are also effective.

 

In any case, I could as easily (and justifiably) approach the Truro FHW with dissatisfaction, bemoaning the fact that I dislike greatly Bach played on this organ, or that its (identical) tierce mixtures jangle in an irritating way; or that the two (similarly-timbred) Clarinet registers are both unenclosed (and, as a result, barely more flexible than the Choir Cremona at Gloucester*) - or even that the only Pedal reed is virtually useless except at times when the full power of the instrument is employed. As others have observed, accompanying a choir, whilst being an important part of its daily task, is not the sole function of a cathedral organ.

 

For that matter, as I have written before, why should all the cathedral organs in this country conform to a similar (if not identical) pattern? I should regard this as a very boring state of affairs if each instrument sounded like Bristol, Durham or Ripon, for example. For me, much of the delight of playing different cathedral organs is the sheer diversity of style, layout and overall aural experience.

 

Surely, there is a challenge for any experienced player to seek out apt and effective registrations, whatever the instrument - even though they may be somewhat unconventional.

 

 

 

* I am aware that you do not like the voicing of this stop; but the fact remains that, whilst the Truro ranks are sweeter and more rounded, they lose a lot of their usefulness as a result of standing on open soundboards. John Hosking has pointed out that a [limited] diminuendo is possible, by transferring from the Solo Clarinet to the Choir Corno di Bassetto. However, on a small four-clavier instrument, to tie-up two divisions in this manner, is unnecessarily wasteful in my view. This said, if one is prepared to indulge in this type of subterfuge, why not do the same (but with different effects) at Gloucester?