MusingMuso Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 I'm glad to learn someone else shares my view about this piece! I wonder when it was written. He wrote one or two other pieces that use similar filling out (a practice also known in England) and I've heard those described as early pieces - though that was from Ivor Keys way back in the 60s before the manifold modern advances in Bach scholarship. ====================== The date I came across was 1708. However, Bach got into bother at Arnstadt over his wild and elaborate accompaniments, and the fact that BWV 729 was written on 2-staves with a figured bass, tends to suggest that it was really a sketched out accompaniment of the Chorale, with flourishes. I think it was at Arnstadt where he was taken to task for "confusing the congregation." All this happened after his lengthy departure to Lubeck; which probably brought out the wild beast in him. In any event, he was admonished, and told to do things in a more conservative style by the Church Consistory,. They gave the order, "If in the future you want to introduce your tonus peregrinus, you must keep to it, and on no account fly off instantaneously into a tonus contrarius." I suspect that the use of the words "tonus contrarius" may have been a play on words, rather than merely referring to counterpoint. I would like to think that the BWV 729 is definitely by Bach. I could well imagine wigs slipping off heads as they jerked around to find out what the hell it was the Herr Bach was doing! MM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Sayer Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 =============================I suspect that if a choir were singing the chorale in between the twiddly bits, it could sound very impressive. There were contemporary reports of Bach also modulating wildly during the singing of the chorales; no doubt inspired by equal-temper tuning. The "In dulci jubilo" should really go quite slowly, and with lots of rubato, whatever the notes suggest. I think that they tended to savour the chorales in Germany, and still do. MM If you wan't to hear what the chorales sounded like sung by the congregation with organ interludes, you need to listen to Paul McCreesh's recording of the 'Epiphany Mass' with the Gabrieli Consort on Archiv, where James Johnstone deliberately sets out to re-create JSB's wild flights of harmonic fancy in Vom Himmel hoch -and this on the decidedly non-equally tempered Silberman instrument at Freiberg Dom. After ten verses at truly magisterial tempo the effect does rather begin to pall. I always find it inspiring to hear many German organists keeping alive the tradition of introducing the chorales with extended improvisations, and, indeed, this is a skill still taught in church music academies. JS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelDavidson Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 I am afraid that the awful truth about the origins of BWV 565 has now been revealed on YouTube ... Toccata & Fugue in D minor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajt Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 I am afraid that the awful truth about the origins of BWV 565 has now been revealed on YouTube ... Toccata & Fugue in D minor I know many "organs" that sound worse than this... Apart from the completely over the top head movements, and the fact that I just don't like the piece, I thought this wasn't bad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cynic Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 I know many "organs" that sound worse than this... Apart from the completely over the top head movements, and the fact that I just don't like the piece, I thought this wasn't bad... Yes, I believe I have witnessed women giving birth who have shown less emotion/angst. Totally OTT, surely? I agree, a quite amazing performance but almost impossible to watch IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
innate Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 Yes, I believe I have witnessed women giving birth who have shown less emotion/angst. Totally OTT, surely?I agree, a quite amazing performance but almost impossible to watch IMHO It's a cultural thing. Read accounts of the performance style of eg Paganini, Rameau, Beethoven and this Russian guy will seem Stoic in comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vox Humana Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 What a wonderful performance! I didn't like the histrionics either, but each to his own and if that's what it takes a performer to produce the interpretation he wants... I can think of a lot of organists, myself included, whose performances might benefit if they allowed themselves to be a little more demonstrative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Coram Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 =============================...no doubt inspired by equal-temper tuning. AAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why does this myth persist! The very last thing Bach was in favour of was equal temperament. There are all sorts of educated guesses about how Bach's organs were tuned, and for the most part they are all "good" tunings you can modulate freely with. But they're not equal temperament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusingMuso Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 What a wonderful performance! I didn't like the histrionics either, but each to his own and if that's what it takes a performer to produce the interpretation he wants... I can think of a lot of organists, myself included, whose performances might benefit if they allowed themselves to be a little more demonstrative. ===================== I've been working on this for some time now. I eshewed the high-heeled snake-skin boots with diamonds in the heels, but I have definitely become more demonstrative. It all started with mutterings under my breath, as I renewed my acquaintance with the Reubke. Then it took a sort of manic course, with grimacing and moments of despair. Then I entered a more violent phase; pounding the keyboards and pedals without mercy. Of course, Virgil Fox was known to do this sort of thing, even going to the extremes of flinging himself before the altar and crying out for strength to the Almighty. Charged up like "Mr Motivator;" flinging myself about and pedalling furiously, the cat became the next victim, as it slunk away to find a safe haven in the wardrobe. I knew it had got really bad when a tap on my shoulder caused a furious outburst, " What do you want? Can't you see I'm working? For God's sake!" Marek smiled sweetly and said, "I've brought you a cup of tea." Oooops! MM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusingMuso Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 What a wonderful performance! I didn't like the histrionics either, but each to his own and if that's what it takes a performer to produce the interpretation he wants... I can think of a lot of organists, myself included, whose performances might benefit if they allowed themselves to be a little more demonstrative. ===================== Demonstrative? Not at all....try this:- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beI0R8_zREk MM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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