Toccata From Widor’s Fifth Organ Symphony

[Justadad]

I've heard it is often played too fast, so what is the correct speed?

 

J

[Phil T]

I've heard it is often played too fast, so what is the correct speed?

 

J

 

The marking on the score is crotchet = 118, if that’s any help? I think there is a tendency for people to play it too fast.

 

[Vox Humana]

This question has come up before:

http://web16713.vs.netbenefit.co.uk/discus...post&p=7209

 

On the face of it, it would seem from the post I have linked above that the older Widor got, the slower he was inclined to take the Toccata.

 

I gather it is not at all unusual for both composers and performers to end up preferring a slower speed as they become ever more familiar with a piece.

[Justadad]

Ah, thank you.

 

I've read the thread. So anything between 100 and 120 depending on the three As, (Action, Acoustic and Agility).

 

J

 

This question has come up before:

http://web16713.vs.netbenefit.co.uk/discus...post&p=7209

 

On the face of it, it would seem from the post I have linked above that the older Widor got, the slower he was inclined to take the Toccata.

 

I gather it is not at all unusual for both composers and performers to end up preferring a slower speed as they become ever more familiar with a piece.

[Guest acc]

The marking on the score is crotchet = 118, if that’s any help? I think there is a tendency for people to play it too fast.

 

That's the marking of the first edition. Widor changed it to crotchet=100 in later editions – a clear sign that the old man himself didn't want it played too fast.

[john carter]

That's the marking of the first edition. Widor changed it to crotchet=100 in later editions – a clear sign that the old man himself didn't want it played too fast.

Out of interest, I have just put a metronome on an early Marcel Dupré recording at St Sulpice and at around crotchet=115, it certainly doesn't sound too fast. I am sure, as pupil and successor on this instrument, Dupré would have been aware of Widor's opinion on the correct tempo for the Toccata.

JC

[Guest acc]

I am sure, as pupil and successor on this instrument, Dupré would have been aware of Widor's opinion on the correct tempo for the Toccata.

 

Actually, I'm not so sure about that (or, rather, I'm not sure he really tried to follow Widor's opinion). It is interesting, for example, to compare the Dupré recording you mention with Widor's own recording. They are very different, not only tempowise (Widor clocks at about crotchet=94), but also in articulations, rubato, etc.

 

(BTW, Dupré didn't study organ with Widor, but with Guilmant.)

[john carter]

(BTW, Dupré didn't study organ with Widor, but with Guilmant.)

Thank you acc, yes my mistake, it was composition he studied with Widor, wasn't it?

 

JC

[Guest acc]

it was composition [Dupré] studied with Widor, wasn't it?

 

Indeed, it was.

 

I've written a bit more extensively about the Widor vs. Dupré issue here. Comments are welcome!