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Cipher


Dulciana
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Was wondering whether any of the knowledgable contributors on this board could give me an idea as to the likely cause of a cipher. The organ on which I practise (and will be playing next Sunday) suddenly developed one during the service on Sunday which, despite optimistic prediction from the regular organist, has not resolved by itself. It's a 2 manual tubular pneumatic action instrument with an enclosed choir division playable from the great manual. The cipher is on middle G on the great, and is also affecting the choir stops. However, swell stops coupled to great are not affected. The church was a little over-zealously heated that day so I wonder whether that could be related. It seems to me that the problem must be within the console. Hopefully the tuner will come and have a look this week (but he does suffer from inertia), but I suppose I may have to resign myself to accompanying Sunday's service on the swell. Any thoughts?

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Was wondering whether any of the knowledgable contributors on this board could give me an idea as to the likely cause of a cipher. The organ on which I practise (and will be playing next Sunday) suddenly developed one during the service on Sunday which, despite optimistic prediction from the regular organist, has not resolved by itself. It's a 2 manual tubular pneumatic action instrument with an enclosed choir division playable from the great manual. The cipher is on middle G on the great, and is also affecting the choir stops. However, swell stops coupled to great are not affected. The church was a little over-zealously heated that day so I wonder whether that could be related. It seems to me that the problem must be within the console. Hopefully the tuner will come and have a look this week (but he does suffer from inertia), but I suppose I may have to resign myself to accompanying Sunday's service on the swell. Any thoughts?

 

As an apprentice one was taught not to have thoughts but logic and start at one end of the possible causes, i.e. dirt on the pallet and work back throught the transmission to the keys until you located the fault and took the necessary remedial action.

 

At a at guess overheating and pneumatic action immediately suggest shrinkage or timber movement somewhere.

 

FF

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As an apprentice one was taught not to have thoughts but logic and start at one end of the possible causes, i.e. dirt on the pallet and work back throught the transmission to the keys until you located the fault and took the necessary remedial action.

 

At a at guess overheating and pneumatic action immediately suggest shrinkage or timber movement somewhere.

 

FF

 

 

Is TP action particularly sensitive to overheating? On really cold days when the heating is working particularly hard, Halifax PC seems to develop any number of faults, some of which go away when the humidity goes back up, others need the attention of the organbuilder.

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Was wondering whether any of the knowledgable contributors on this board could give me an idea as to the likely cause of a cipher. The organ on which I practise (and will be playing next Sunday) suddenly developed one during the service on Sunday which, despite optimistic prediction from the regular organist, has not resolved by itself. It's a 2 manual tubular pneumatic action instrument with an enclosed choir division playable from the great manual. The cipher is on middle G on the great, and is also affecting the choir stops. However, swell stops coupled to great are not affected. The church was a little over-zealously heated that day so I wonder whether that could be related. It seems to me that the problem must be within the console. Hopefully the tuner will come and have a look this week (but he does suffer from inertia), but I suppose I may have to resign myself to accompanying Sunday's service on the swell. Any thoughts?

 

Hi

 

The fact that the fault is appanernt of both departments would rule out dirt on the pallets, so I would look first at the key end, then any relays/couplers - but that's just looking at the matter logically. I don't know a lot about pneumatic actions, but have done a lot of electronic fault-finding over the years.

 

Every Blessing

 

Tony

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Morning,

 

If it is a pressure-type action it very well could have something to do the pallets on the keying end of the action. Is there actually a separate chest for the Choir division?

 

On a pressure system the problem would be air getting where it's not supposed to; perhaps via a dirty, twisted, or delaminated pallet valve, chest split, blown pneumatic on one of the two chests (if it has two) or something else communicating with pressurized wind. On an exhaust system it could be something as simple as a lead tube popping out due to the dryness, although pressure organs have more ways to cipher than exhaust types. It could also be something as simple as a slipped leather nut or a return spring out of its place.

 

What would be nice to know is if there is anything (aside from the cipher) different about this note than the others. Does the offending key have the same pluck as its neighbors?

 

- Nathan

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Morning,

 

If it is a pressure-type action it very well could have something to do the pallets on the keying end of the action. Is there actually a separate chest for the Choir division?

 

On a pressure system the problem would be air getting where it's not supposed to; perhaps via a dirty, twisted, or delaminated pallet valve, chest split, blown pneumatic on one of the two chests (if it has two) or something else communicating with pressurized wind. On an exhaust system it could be something as simple as a lead tube popping out due to the dryness, although pressure organs have more ways to cipher than exhaust types. It could also be something as simple as a slipped leather nut or a return spring out of its place.

 

What would be nice to know is if there is anything (aside from the cipher) different about this note than the others. Does the offending key have the same pluck as its neighbors?

 

- Nathan

 

The choir division is enclosed so I assume there must be a separate chest. There is no obvious other difference between the note concerned and its neighbours. I don't know much about the coupler mechanism, but as the fault doesn't occur on the swell when coupled to great wouldn't this give some clue as to the likely cause?

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The choir division is enclosed so I assume there must be a separate chest. There is no obvious other difference between the note concerned and its neighbours. I don't know much about the coupler mechanism, but as the fault doesn't occur on the swell when coupled to great wouldn't this give some clue as to the likely cause?

 

Good Morning...

 

I don't know what size the specification is, but sometimes expression boxes can be plopped right onto a large chest to divide it. Regardless, the Great and Choir probably operate from the same unison action in one way or another hence the shared cipher. Again, a pressure-system (which is the norm in over there isn't it?) is either air getting where it should not or ruptured leather somewhere in the system. An exhaustive system suggests a tube off or catastrophic air leak to atmosphere.

 

Best,

 

Nathan

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All the postings go to show how different the various pneumatic actions can be. If you don't know what you are doing leave things alone and call in the expert.

 

The most difficult bit is often trying to get to the actions. If you are not used to crawling round organs or negoatiating, laying face down, a way across the top of the wind reservoir (bellows weights can be quite painful) or catching hold of the wrong bit of the organ for support, much damage can be caused and after a home made disaster your organ tuner won't like you any more.

 

FF

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