Malaga Cathedral

[iy45]

I was in Malaga Cathedral the other day, admiring the view of the organs there; they're either new or completely restored, and look absolutely magnificent. Positifs looking both north and south on each organ, likewise four lots of en chamades.

 

But, of course, no-one was playing them.

 

I bought a CD in the Cathedral shop, only to discover that it was a twenty year old recording of what the booklet describes as the historic organs of the Cathedral.

 

Does anyone know exactly what the organs are - old restored, or new? And anything else about them?

[Pierre Lauwers]

There isn't many material to be found on the internet

about spanish organs, but there is at least this one:

 

 

http://www.homines.com/arte/organo_catedral_malaga/

 

....Halas without disposition, but you will find the names

and the dates.

 

Best wishes,

Pierre Lauwers.

[contraviolone]

.

[iy45]

There isn't many material to be found on the internet

about spanish organs, but there is at least this one:

http://www.homines.com/arte/organo_catedral_malaga/

 

....Halas without disposition, but you will find the names

and the dates.

 

Best wishes,

Pierre Lauwers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thanks for this.

 

I don't speak Spanish, so had to use Google's translation facility - which can produce amusing results! However, as far as I can tell the article and the photographs are all to do with the historic instrument in its unrestored state. Or have I missed something?

[Pierre Lauwers]

Thanks for this.

 

I don't speak Spanish, so had to use Google's translation facility - which can produce amusing results! However, as far as I can tell the article and the photographs are all to do with the historic instrument in its unrestored state. Or have I missed something?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No; but I found nothing else!

 

Best wishes,

Pierre Lauwers.

[José Gallardo Alberni]

I can write Granada and Malaga's organs original disposition if you want. They are far long...

[José Gallardo Alberni]

It is not necessary. You can have a look here (in Spanish, if help needed, please say it):

 

http://www.orgacitores.com/restauraciones.htm

[James Goldrick]

The International Organ Foundation Catalogue seems to contain all the relevant information.

 

It certainly is an impressive set of specifications.

Apparently they are a pair of a 1783 Julián de la Orden organs.

 

Here's the link:

IOF - Málaga Cathedral, Spain

 

James Goldrick

[iy45]

It is not necessary. You can have a look here (in Spanish, if help needed, please say it):

 

http://www.orgacitores.com/restauraciones.htm

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Many thanks for this, which leads to the details of the Epistle organ, restored in 2000-2001. Judging from the spec, it must be an absolute nightmare to play - goodness knows how you'd get on trying to duo with the Gospel organ.

 

Next question - the casework of the Gospel organ looked identical to that of the Epistle; presumably the contents are different?

 

Has anyone actually heard the organs being played?

 

For a little harmless amusement, try using Google to translate the organ spec; apparently "Octava tapada" renders into English as "Eighth woman who hides herself with mantel".

 

Thanks to everyone for sharing their knowledge.

 

iy45

[José Gallardo Alberni]

As far as I know, they are twin organs nowadays, both inside and outside. But, Epistle side is the organ which is played normally. The one in Gospel side needs a restoration also. (Granada's cathedral have twin cases but the contents are different.)

Yes I have listened to this organ and its sound is really astonishing. The reeds are powerful. It is a shock when you hear Cabanille's "Batalla Imperial"!

Though Goggle translation is amuzing, as you realize it is "a bit" different. Basically, a "Octava tapada" is a eight foot stop which is stopped.

 

I apologize for my poor english. Wishes!

[Pierre Lauwers]

This may be an occasion to investigate something I wonder about

since long: What did the spanish organists of the 18th century play

on these extraordinary organs? Cabanilles? Really?

These instrument did not only feature the spectacular chamades;

thet were in advance as far as Swell boxes and registrational aids

are concerned. The flue stops were quite varied as well, with both

Principal and Flutes choruses.

There is a belief extemporisation reigned supreme. But do we know

more today?

 

Best wishes,

Pierre Lauwers.

[KeithL]

This may be an occasion to investigate something I wonder about

since long: What did the spanish organists of the 18th century play

on these extraordinary organs? Cabanilles? Really?

These instrument did not only feature the spectacular chamades;

thet were in advance as far as Swell boxes and registrational aids

are concerned. The flue stops were quite varied as well, with both

Principal and Flutes choruses.

There is a belief extemporisation reigned supreme. But do we know

more today?

 

Best wishes,

Pierre Lauwers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Around 8 years ago I did hear one of the organs play on a Sunday Evening Mass, it was a wonderful sound and full use of the chamades and all. I understand that both organs do work and agree that it's sad that the only CD about is years and years old. I did visit Malga this year but sadly on a weekday and as you say they look mgnificent. lets hope we can hear more soon.

 

Keith Loxam

[José Gallardo Alberni]

It is supposed that if you go to the cathedral no sunday morning (moreover at 12 o'clock) you should hear the organ. But if you go there in August, it could be hard (seasons are seasons!)

About what did the organists play... not only Cabanilles but Correa and much more. These reed stops are "very Spanish" (or Iberian) and the composers wrote a lot of pieces. For example, the Tientos (both left and right hand).

Moreover, I almost think that spanish baroque organs are only suitable for this music. If you heard a Franck piece in a iberian organ, it looks horrible.

The three main features of iberian organ are:

- batalla reeds

- swell boxes

- divided keyboard

(and perhaps the iberian cornet)

 

I don't know whether this is what you are asking.

[Pierre Lauwers]

So there would be a lot of written music for the spanish organ

of the 18th century? Did not Cabanilles actually write for an

earlier type of organ, without chamades?

I've heard late baroque french music on them, and it seemed

appropriate. Of course, this would not be the case with Franck.

 

The "Cornetas" and "Nazardos", of smaller scale than the french

and belgian Cornets, I see rather as "Flute mixtures", topping

complete Flute choruses you won't find anywhere else.

 

It seems there were undulating stops too, maybe from italian

origin.

 

Best wishes,

Pierre Lauwers.

[José Gallardo Alberni]

Well, for example you have the following organists:

 

Joan Cabanilles (1644-1712)

Gabriel Menalt (1657-1687)

Josep Elies (1687-1755)

Miguel López (1669-1723)

 

and many more...

 

Cabanilles was organist at Valencia Cathedral. His organ was this one:

 

http://www.carolinaclassical.com/paco/cabanilles.html

 

nowadays destroyed. As you can see, it had reed stops. In any case, it's likely that Cabanilles's organ would have chamades. Take into account that one of the first reed stops of Spain was built at Huesca's Cathedral in 1588. And yes, perhaps French music (baroque) is more suitable in a Spanish organ, but not much more.

[Pierre Lauwers]

There were reeds, of course; but wether Cabanilles knew "chamade"

reeds (horizontal reeds) is questionable (he dissepeared in 1712).

As far as I know, the "Spanish organ" as we see it today, with

his chamades and accessories like Swellboxes etc, appeared after

about 1730.

 

Thanks fort this page!

 

Best wishes,

Pierre Lauwers.

[José Gallardo Alberni]

According to my acounts, the first horizontal reed stop in Spain was built in 1659 (built by Josep Echevarría in Alcalá de Henares) and in the same year (1659) and the same organbuilder built the first swell box (in spanish, more or less "echo box").

[Pierre Lauwers]

Here we have something quite interesting!

 

The first english Swellbox dates back 1712. If it existed in Spain since 1659, it could have reached Britain trough the Portugal, which had many contacts with England during that period. On the continent, the first Swellboxes we owe to Abt Vogler, so not before the beginning of the 19th century...

But nobody among our scholars do know this 1659 date. A vast majority of them still believe the english were the first. There is also a belief the magnificient spanish organs with horizontal reeds, Swellboxes etc were only late-Baroque creations, and that nobody did actually write for them. It seems the introduction of the romantic organ in Spain was a catastrophe, replacing spanish organs with french and german ones -tough Cavaillé-Coll was strongly influenced by the spanish organ-.

You should create "the" big spanish multilingual Website with the aim to explain the history of the spanish organ. I'm convinced you'll agree with me the spanish themselves do not show enough interest in their organs. Don't worry, it's the same situation in Belgium, while we see here everyday the british had better their own organs exchanged for french and german ones...

Best wishes,

Pierre Lauwers.

[José Gallardo Alberni]

My source is the books of Jesús Ángel de la Lama, S.J. called "El órgano barroco español" (something like a bible...)

It seems that the first swell box was built, as I said, by Fr. Joseph de Echavarria in Eibar (Guipuzcoa) in 1659. He did this task since this year to 1692 (when he died). He put in this swellbox two stops: a stopped flute and a cornet (another bad known stops outside and inside Spain).

The web site could be interesting, but... I am not scholar in organbuilding (only an amateur) and my english is very very bad.

Do you want to see an astonishing organ? Look at this:

 

http://users.servicios.retecal.es/sanhipolito/organo.htm

 

it is from San Hipolito's Church, Tamara de Campos (Palencia). But the post impressive fact is that it is of a column :

 

http://users.servicios.retecal.es/sanhipol...navecentral.htm (below right)

[José Gallardo Alberni]

Another photo of this organ: (I know it's offtopic but I cannot resist)

 

http://galeon.hispavista.com/alf_esteban/tamara.htm

[Pierre Lauwers]

Splendid!

 

Pierre Lauwers