Dulciana Mixtures

[pcnd5584]

Of course I am!!!

 

The Ulster Hall is another interesting version, with 1 1/3'-1'.

 

Pierre

 

I will endeavour to send you further details by e-mail tomorrow, Pierre.

[MusingMuso]

"the 32ft reed at Doncaster, which sound a bit like a sick Harley-Davidson on a cold, foggy morning. "

(Quote)

 

I hope this is -was?- not the original, free-reed stop which was "bettered"!!!

(or W........ized)

Pierre

 

 

===============================

 

So far as I am aware, it's the same awful reed that it always was.

 

MM

[MusingMuso]

Of course, the link was one Carl Schulze (no relative), who left Schulze to join Charles Brindley as his head-voicer

 

This is interesting, for I knew there was a connection but did not realise exactly how. Brindley and Foster made many fine instruments well capable of rendering quality organ music through bold and vigorous choruses of high quality. It is a pity that so many of these instruments have been lost, many from non-confomist churches. One cannot help but wonder if the complex pneumatic actions made restoration uneconomic in many cases.

 

Barry Williams

 

 

============================

 

 

I'm only marginally knowledgeable about the work of Brindley & Foster, but I think you will find that their best years were in the 1870-80 decade, when most of the instruments were mechanical-action and of very German character.

 

The pneumatics, essentially based on the "keglade" German chests, came later.

 

Actually, they worked very well, but they were certainly complex, because the "Bridgradus" stop and combination control system was introuduced towards the turn of the century. By this time, B & F had really gone down a very commercial path, and the old "magic" of Charles Brindley and Carl Schulze had been long-lost.

 

Of course, it is important to know that Brindley made his workmen available to Schulze, (and vice versa, when Brindley was building the school organ at Doncaster)and what we may regard as "pure Schulze" might well include a lot of Brindley. The metal pipework was made to order in the UK, but the wooden pipes (with those exquisite flutes) were made in Paulinzelle, Germany.

 

Once Brindley's influence passed, the company were really making more or less "stock" factory organs; and a very great many of them. Never actually bad, they were unfortunately not of the best tonal quality after that remarkable decade when Charles Brindley was the leading man.

 

I mentioned the organ at Dewsbury, Wrst Yorks, which really was a copy of the Armley instrument in many ways. In a very different acoustic, it just howled around the building, as one might expect of a Schulze organ. Seldom have I heard a finer Great chorus in the UK, but sadly, it went the way of the wrecker's ball, at a time when the Schulze fashion had passed.

 

I always say to people, that if they come across a Brindley organ made between approximately 1870 and maybe 1885, they should treasure it.

 

It's fascinating to consider that Brindey was the heir to Schulze in the UK, and the heir to Brindley was John Compton; but that really shouldn't come as much of a surprise, because Compton really did know his stuff, even though he was active at perhaps a very experimental and somewhat unfortunate time.

 

MM

[Vox Humana]

A bit like the Piccolo here - http://npor.emma.cam.ac.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch...ec_index=K00177

It's a Hele, Vox!! (Any guesses as to where it came from in Plymouth?

Apparently this organ came from Embankment Road Methodist Church in Plymouth - where it had a Fifteenth but no Twelfth. The organist at this church was a cinema organ enthusiast who threw the Hele out in about 1965 in order to acquire a nine-rank Compton that was being discarded by Plymouth's Gaumont cinema. Allan Wicks saw the Hele advertised and asked my informant to inspect the organ - the latter found it ideal for its purpose, but the tubular pneumatic action was in need of renovation.

 

The Compton subsequently went to Mount Gould Methodist Church in Plymouth and is now in a private residence in Basildon.

[Guest Psalm 78 v.67]

Apparently this organ came from Embankment Road Methodist Church in Plymouth - where it had a Fifteenth but no Twelfth. The organist at this church was a cinema organ enthusiast who threw the Hele out in about 1965 in order to acquire a nine-rank Compton that was being discarded by Plymouth's Gaumont cinema. Allan Wicks saw the Hele advertised and asked my informant to inspect the organ - the latter found it ideal for its purpose, but the tubular pneumatic action was in need of renovation.

 

The Compton subsequently went to Mount Gould Methodist Church in Plymouth and is now in a private residence in Basildon.

 

Ah! Thank you sir!

 

I've just noticed that the NPOR spec is wrong - there IS a Fifteenth on the Great along with the Twelfth and "spare slide"

 

I wonder whether Tony will note all this and save us the trouble!?

 

Slightly off-topic, but following on from the erroneous spec mentioned, I have known 2 organs (Brighton Unitarian Church before its last rebuild) and Maidstone URC) that had a 12th on the Great but no 15th or 2' of any description. Any other examples around, and if so what is the logic / use? Possibly as an addition if there is a mixture with a 15th rank?

[Vox Humana]

Curious. I don't know, but perhaps it is due more to a desire to avoid anything remotely squeaky than to anything else. Both the E. M. Skinners I have played in the states had a Choir Organ where a Nazard was the highest-pitched rank. Neither organ originally had a great Mixture either (though one had acquired one later). This was not unusual for Skinner. My impression was that it was simply an aversion to anything that might detract significantly from the predominantly unison tone.

[Guest Cynic]

Curious. I don't know, but perhaps it is due more to a desire to avoid anything remotely squeaky than to anything else. Both the E. M. Skinners I have played in the states had a Choir Organ where a Nazard was the highest-pitched rank. Neither organ originally had a great Mixture either (though one had acquired one later). This was not unusual for Skinner. My impression was that it was simply an aversion to anything that might detract significantly from the predominantly unison tone.

 

 

I'm fairly sure that the point of a Skinner Nazard is to add piquancy - which indeed they do. Willis III mutations (as at Westminster cathedral, Farm Street etc.) were intended for similar purposes, not so that organists could recapture genuine baroque tonalities. Apart from anything else, both the power and the scaling would have been all wrong for this.

[Pierre Lauwers]

I'm fairly sure that the point of a Skinner Nazard is to add piquancy - which indeed they do. Willis III mutations (as at Westminster cathedral, Farm Street etc.) were intended for similar purposes, not so that organists could recapture genuine baroque tonalities. Apart from anything else, both the power and the scaling would have been all wrong for this.

 

.....Same in Belgium and France. See the Bailleul Gonzalez, or belgian Delmottes from the 30's; you will find Nasards and Tierces on secondary manuals, but expect nothing like baroque or neo-baroque stops.

They are conical, "closed feet" affairs, intended for synthetic colors building with a variety of others stops.

They are perfectly suited to Tournemire or "first manner" Messiaen; pipes with which one could build a kind

of Dulciana Mixture with.

As often, names are deceptive.

 

Pierre

[Guest Cynic]

.....Same in Belgium and France. See the Bailleul Gonzalez, or belgian Delmottes from the 30's; you will find Nasards and Tierces on secondary manuals, but expect nothing like baroque or neo-baroque stops.

They are conical, "closed feet" affairs, intended for synthetic colors building with a variety of others stops.

They are perfectly suited to Tournemire or "first manner" Messiaen; pipes with which one could build a kind

of Dulciana Mixture with.

As often, names are deceptive.

 

Pierre

 

Synthetic

that's the word I couldn't remember earlier this morning.

 

Thanks, Pierre.

[Vox Humana]

Hang on a mo. I think conclusions are being jumped to here. The word I used was "squeaky". No one mentioned the Baroque!

[Tony Newnham]

Ah! Thank you sir!

 

I've just noticed that the NPOR spec is wrong - there IS a Fifteenth on the Great along with the Twelfth and "spare slide"

 

I wonder whether Tony will note all this and save us the trouble!?

 

Slightly off-topic, but following on from the erroneous spec mentioned, I have known 2 organs (Brighton Unitarian Church before its last rebuild) and Maidstone URC) that had a 12th on the Great but no 15th or 2' of any description. Any other examples around, and if so what is the logic / use? Possibly as an addition if there is a mixture with a 15th rank?

 

Hi

 

Can you send the NPOR office (or me) an e-mail with the relevant info (and source of info) - we can then file it in case of future queries.

 

Many Thanks

 

Every Blessing

 

Tony