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With the standard 4' stop, is it usually just the trebles that are harmonic, or are there instances where the harmonic pipes are carried all the way down to the bottom? If the basses are not harmonic, where do the harmonic pipes usually start? I have come across examples starting at c' and g', but have no idea what the norm is, or even if there is one.

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With the standard 4' stop, is it usually just the trebles that are harmonic, or are there instances where the harmonic pipes are carried all the way down to the bottom? If the basses are not harmonic, where do the harmonic pipes usually start? I have come across examples starting at c' and g', but have no idea what the norm is, or even if there is one.

 

All of the organs that I have played with harmonic flutes have harmonic pipes from Tenor C upwards, but I wouldn't have a clue if this is the normal way or not. My church organ has a harmonic flt but from what I can remember and in pictures, it looks like it goes onto diapason pipes in the bottom octave but I don't think this would be right.

I have heard of organs with harmonic pipes right down to CC (although I can't name any), but a lot of them don't because of the pipe height.

 

JA

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With the standard 4' stop, is it usually just the trebles that are harmonic, or are there instances where the harmonic pipes are carried all the way down to the bottom? If the basses are not harmonic, where do the harmonic pipes usually start? I have come across examples starting at c' and g', but have no idea what the norm is, or even if there is one.

Being ancient and ignorant, I don't know what "numpty" means. My copy of the New Oxford English Dictionary doesn't help, so in the spirit of Humphrey Lyttleton's Uxbridge Dictionary, I've decided a numpty is actually the name given to the hole half way along a harmonic pipe. As to the original question, I'm sorry, I haven't a clue! :)

JC

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Guest Barry Williams
All of the organs that I have played with harmonic flutes have harmonic pipes from Tenor C upwards, but I wouldn't have a clue if this is the normal way or not. My church organ has a harmonic flt but from what I can remember and in pictures, it looks like it goes onto diapason pipes in the bottom octave but I don't think this would be right.

I have heard of organs with harmonic pipes right down to CC (although I can't name any), but a lot of them don't because of the pipe height.

 

JA

 

We are replacing the Flute 4' on our Great Organ. (On our House Organ.) The replacement stop is by Holditch. The bottom twelve notes are stopped. The tenor octave is open and the rest is harmonic. It is all rather fine and blends well with the Gray & Davison pipework.

 

Barry Williams

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Being ancient and ignorant, I don't know what "numpty" means. My copy of the New Oxford English Dictionary doesn't help, so in the spirit of Humphrey Lyttleton's Uxbridge Dictionary, I've decided a numpty is actually the name given to the hole half way along a harmonic pipe. As to the original question, I'm sorry, I haven't a clue! :)

JC

I've only been aware of "numpty" in the last 2-3 years and I think I've only seen it online, never in real life. I've assumed it means something along the lines of ignorant novice, often in the world of new technologies. In fact you are probably a bit numpty yourself, John. :lol: These days, you can normally find the meaning of a word using a search engine such as Google in less time than it takes to get up and find the dictionary.

 

I think the hole halfway down a harmonic flute should be called a kavike-hole.

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I've only been aware of "numpty" in the last 2-3 years and I think I've only seen it online, never in real life. I've assumed it means something along the lines of ignorant novice, often in the world of new technologies. In fact you are probably a bit numpty yourself, John. :)

Oh yes, absolutely true. I would never have become a Technology Development Manager without that qualification.

JC

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With the standard 4' stop, is it usually just the trebles that are harmonic, or are there instances where the harmonic pipes are carried all the way down to the bottom? If the basses are not harmonic, where do the harmonic pipes usually start? I have come across examples starting at c' and g', but have no idea what the norm is, or even if there is one.

 

Herbert and H. John Norman, 'The Organ Today', p157.

 

After a description of the construction they say 'These harmonic pipe lengths are only from Tenor - Middle C upwards, the bass being of plain length, high cut up pipes simulating the tone well enough at the matching point'. There is also a description of the HF variants - the Concert Flute, Flauto Traverso, Zauberflote. and Harmonic Claribel, the latter being of wood.

 

The point has already been made that these pipes would be very large for their pitch, and as the tone is indistiguishable from an open pipe in the bass registers the additional expense of making and supporting such a pipe doesn't justify the cost.

 

Hope this helps - and you don't sound like a 'numpty' to me!

 

Regards to all

 

John.

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We are replacing the Flute 4' on our Great Organ. (On our House Organ.) The replacement stop is by Holditch. The bottom twelve notes are stopped. The tenor octave is open and the rest is harmonic. It is all rather fine and blends well with the Gray & Davison pipework.

 

Barry Williams

 

This is probably the way they make it, but it is quite difficult to tell from photos in my organ. I'll have a look sometime and find out how the my harm. flute is set out. I have just had another look at the photo and it could be that it is open from pipes 1-24 and harmonic from 25-58, but again its too difficult to tell.

 

JA

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Guest Cynic
This is probably the way they make it, but it is quite difficult to tell from photos in my organ. I'll have a look sometime and find out how the my harm. flute is set out. I have just had another look at the photo and it could be that it is open from pipes 1-24 and harmonic from 25-58, but again its too difficult to tell.

 

JA

 

This sounds pretty regular to me.

 

There are two ways of voicing and scaling the lower octaves:

1. full (i.e. normal) length but pretty large-scale - called 'tubs' in the trade

2. fairly narrow scale - almost principals, often sounding 'horny' - maybe with arched cut-up

 

Because of 2. you can encounter Harmonic Flute stops where the tone noticeably changes as the pitch rises. In some ways this is a better representation of the Orchestral Flute, which may well be the point. Others will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think French taste inclines towards the second style.

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This is "treble ascendancy"; not much the tone, but rather the power,

increases towards the treble.

 

Pierre

 

Absolutely, Pierre. This is exactly what my beautiful replacement stop does on the G.O. It is by Brewer, of Truro and dates from the 1880s.

 

I love it a lot - and would not wish to swap back to the hideous Koppel Flute for all the chamades in France.

 

So there.

 

B)

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