Contrabombarde Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 OK, it's maybe a frivilous topic, but having spent a few thrilling hours getting to know the organ at Lausanne Cathedral over the weekend I wonder if I could begin such a thread. Even with the mobile console halfway down the nave, and playing on Great principal chorus it's pretty deafening. Add the Great reeds and couple to full Swell and your ears start to ache. Couple that to the Bombarde heavy reeds and tiles come off the roof. Add the Bombarde chamades and full Pedal down to 64' (32 plus 21 1/3) plus Great 32' flue and the Pacific seismographs start to pick it up. It's one amazing instrument (5-manual mechanical action!), though it is more than a bit loud! Organ in question is a 2003 Fisk from the USA. They should get Jeremy Clarkson to feature it on Top Gear in a noise shootout with a Ferrari. It reminds me of the organ in Lake Avenue church, Pasadena, a Casavant dating back around 10 years. Enormous four manual, with 32 bourdon on Great and 32 foot REED on Swell. Again, voicing on a collosal scale, though in a vast, windowless auditorium wth the acoustics of a cinema, and I thought that though it was a thrilling instrument it was just a bit too loud to be able to control sensitively. So, for the bit of the schoolboy in us all, what's the loudest organ you've ever encountered, whether measured at console or in church/auditorium? And how loud can an organ be and still remain musical? Examples please! Contrabombarde (conflict of interest: my alias' name!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJJ Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 The Fanfare Trumpet (and quite a lot else) at the Ulster Hall, Belfast. AJJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre Lauwers Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 The organ of the Chant d'oiseau church (dealt with elsewhere here). As for the most musical loud organ, I could cite an organ which does not exist any more somewhere in Europe, heard from the choir. Pierre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
contraviolone Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWAnderson Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 Loudest I've heard was Christchurch Cathedral, New Zealand Hill Norman & Beard 1926. The tuba is on 19" which is the loudest in the country at the moment. JA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfortin Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 Bath Abbey is very loud at the console. (My daughter, who's been in many an organ loft with me, put her hands over her ears at full Gt+Sw. Haven't tried coupling through the Tuba.) St Mary Redcliffe is, to my mind, uncomfortably loud at the console. I haven't had the fortune to hear Westminster Cathedral from the tribune, but its a most magnificent sound - and quite loud enough - in the nave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heva Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 Cologne Cathedral 's tuttis + 64' gives quite an earthquake. Maybe that's something for St.Pauls if one would something, a 64' - the tutti is indeed very very loud near the south transept (tubas poking your ears). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcnd5584 Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 As for the most musical loud organ, I could cite an organ which doesnot exist any more somewhere in Europe, heard from the choir. Pierre Yes - absolutely, Pierre. The Full Organ was thrilling, with a delicious tang to the big reeds - just like an old English spiced sauce.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcnd5584 Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 I suspect that Nôtre-Dame de Paris would take some beating - Tutti Général actually made my ears distort. The loudest organ in central London is supposed to be the instrument in St. Alban's, Holborn. Apparently, after its completion it was so noisy that the only way of getting the G.O. down to a bearable level was to build substantial wood baffles around the soundboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolsey Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 ... what's the loudest organ you've ever encountered, whether measured at console or in church/auditorium? Wesminster Cathedral Bath Abbey (Klais) St Alban's, Holborn St Peter's, Eaton Square (Jones) Royal Albert Hall (restored) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcnd5584 Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 Wesminster CathedralBath Abbey (Klais) St Alban's, Holborn St Peter's, Eaton Square (Jones) Royal Albert Hall (restored) Indeed - the organ of Bath Abbey is very loud. Actually, it was fairly powerful before the rebuild by Klais. Apparently, it frightened some of the orchestra during the first full rehearsal for the Saint-Saëns Third Symphony, which was performed shortly after the latest rebuild was completed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfortin Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 Yes - absolutely, Pierre. The Full Organ was thrilling, with a delicious tang to the big reeds - just like an old English spiced sauce.... Well I guess I know which organ is being discussed, and I played it regularly for 4 years. Whilst it was a thrilling instrument I would not agree that it was exceptionally loud. We've been through the arguments about accompanying the choir (it was simple, use little great and keep the swell pedal under control). But for the grand finale it was not unreasonable to couple through the solo Bombarde & Trumpet, possibly even with octave couplers. I can't imagine doing that at Bath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcnd5584 Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Well I guess I know which organ is being discussed, and I played it regularly for 4 years. Whilst it was a thrilling instrument I would not agree that it was exceptionally loud. We've been through the arguments about accompanying the choir (it was simple, use little great and keep the swell pedal under control). But for the grand finale it was not unreasonable to couple through the solo Bombarde & Trumpet, possibly even with octave couplers. I can't imagine doing that at Bath. Whist this is true, the Solo Organ at Bath Abbey is considerably nearer to the singers than was the Solo Organ at the other building under discussion.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre Lauwers Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Whist this is true, the Solo Organ at Bath Abbey is considerably nearer to the singers than was the Solo Organ at the other building under discussion.... .....Which was oriented towards the nave, not the choir. Pierre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcnd5584 Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 .....Which was oriented towards the nave, not the choir. Pierre ....Which was exactly my point. This made it quite possible to use both big Solo reeds (and the Pedal 32p Trumpet), when accompanying a reasonably robust choir. Incidentally, I had always wondered why the Pedal reeds were simply named 'Trumpet' - all three pitches; surely Double Trumpet, Trumpet and Clarion would have been less confusing when glancing quickly for a climax stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAB Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 By common consent, Notre Dame seems to be one of the loudest ; I have heard that remark about eardrums distorting from more than one player. I spoke to Stephen Farr about playing there earlier this year ; normally the most aesthetic and fastidious musician, Stephen admitted, despite himself, at being impressed by the fact that it was just so LOUD. Westminster Cathedral is very loud at the console, although in a way that I find overbearing rather than exciting. The Grand Chorus is above your head, and once that is on you cannot hear anything else. In a recent Sunday afternoon recital I arranged my programme so that - in a rare moment of discretion - the Contra Bombarde was only heard at the end of the last piece. My hapless page turner was standing right beside the Bombarde when it came on and physically jumped. He later described the experience as like having a pneumatic drill held to the side of his head. Naturally, I went on to point out to him that I had not got round to the Tuba Magna at all in my programme. The other organs that I remember as almost unpleasantly loud are Notre Dame Leicester Place and St John's Church, Duncan Terrace, Islington, the latter being very loud at the console so that after a little time you just end up with a headache. The art, as ever, is to find the right balance of power and excitement. My uncle, an architect, always raved about Liverpool Anglican Cathedral as being (architecturally) the perfect mix of smoothness and power, and that probably goes for the Liverpool organ as well. Playing that organ at full blast is like driving a racing car at 200mph ; you 'slow down' to what feels like a crawl, only to look at the speedometer and find you are still doing 70 mph. Perhaps we could start a related thread about organs that are disappointingly soft. By common consent, Bridgewater Hall never quite seems to get there ; an experience I have also had (as a listener) at King's Cambridge, Kingston Parish Church and Saint Sulpice (although in the latter case that might have been to do with my position in the church). Just as you think things are starting to build up nicely, you realise that you are already flat out. Ultimately, beauty of sound is much more important than sheer power, but sometimes a bit of a blast is just what you need. As George Thalben Ball reminded us, every organ should have one stop or aspect that makes you go 'Golly'. M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJJ Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 By common consent, Notre Dame seems to be one of the loudest ; I have heard that remark about eardrums distorting from more than one player. I spoke to Stephen Farr about playing there earlier this year ; normally the most aesthetic and fastidious musician, Stephen admitted, despite himself, at being impressed by the fact that it was just so LOUD. But on the occasions I have heard it from downstairs - either in a recital or in the 'big' Mass on Easter day not so long ago it has sounded decidedly far away. Possibly the effect of all the tourists etc. also does not help. Cochereau recordings aside - I have two modern recordings - Olivier Latry and Phillippe Lefebvre - the former sounds as if it has been recorded at a greater distance than the latter and therefore gives a better perspective from an 'acoustic' POV. Levfebvre has more consistently 'loud' bits whereas Latry coasts along quite nicely but adds coupled Chamades at the ends of pieces so practically doubling the volume (the end of his Widor Toccata is decidedly OTT but quite splendid all the same!). The Pedal Bombardes make less of an impact in the Latry recording. I'd like to hear it from the gallery......maybe next time... AJJ PS Feb. '09 - I take this all back - in an empty building - even from the crossing the sound is VAST! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcnd5584 Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 ... I'd like to hear it from the gallery......maybe next time... AJJ If you do, I recommend ear-muffs - or a wooly hat. (Or not leaning against the case....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Psalm 78 v.67 Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 St Mary Redcliffe is, to my mind, uncomfortably loud at the console. Particularly Full Swell with the West shutters open into the North Transept. Try sitting in the transept right next to them as I did for a service once many years ago! (Slightly off-topic, I have never seen much mention of the late Garth Benson on this forum...a Redcliffe "character" if ever there was one!) St Alban's Holborn is pretty loud as I remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Psalm 78 v.67 Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 And there's always pcnd's chamades! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbouffant Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Yes Liverpool's fairly new Trompette Millitaire made my ears bleed at it's inaugural appearance at the Anniversary Organ Recital in 1997... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Psalm 78 v.67 Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Particularly Full Swell with the West shutters open into the North Transept. Try sitting in the transept right next to them as I did for a service once many years ago! (Slightly off-topic, I have never seen much mention of the late Garth Benson on this forum...a Redcliffe "character" if ever there was one!) St Alban's Holborn is pretty loud as I remember. - (edit: D'oh ! Should have read earlier posts more thoroughly! ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinstanley Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Wesminster CathedralBath Abbey (Klais) St Alban's, Holborn St Peter's, Eaton Square (Jones) Royal Albert Hall (restored) Having heard both the first and last of these recently I thought Westminster Cathedral thrilling but the RAH at full tilt is just unpleasant and uncomfortable, especially the GO reeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrabombarde Posted September 20, 2007 Author Share Posted September 20, 2007 That provoked a lively discussion ;-) PCND??? Notre Dame de Paris or am I missing something? And what's this highly mysterious organ somewhere in Europe that no longer exists and that we're evidently not allowed to name??? Incidentally, on the subject of quiet organs, is Bridgewater Hall that disappointing? I've only heard it once, with Wayne Marshall and thought it held its own in the Jongen Organ Concerto against a full orchestra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vox Humana Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 PCND??? Notre Dame de Paris or am I missing something? Pierre-Cochereau-Notre-Dame-[19]55-[19]84, now residing somewhere in a mid south-coast county. And what's this highly mysterious organ somewhere in Europe that no longer exists and that we're evidently not allowed to name??? Which Organ Really Could Elicit Some Terrible Ear-splitting Rackets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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